Argentina Air Force News and Discussion

Vulcan

Member
Seems the on again off again Argentine IAI Kfir Block 60 acquisition from Israel is on again with negotiations to resume. 12 - 14 aircraft are involved.
I find it interesting that Colombia uses as the example for how potentially capable the Kfir is. Their air force is looking elsewhere for fighter replacements as their Kfirs are suffering from attritional losses, 5 crashes in the last 6 years I believe was the last tally.

That's amplified in significance when on paper the Colombians have ~20 Kfirs left in their inventory and - AFAIK - they've been offered F-16's and M2000-5's as part of that.
 

George1

New Member
Argentine Minister of Defence Julio Martinez announced that the Argentine government has suspended plans for new fighter aircraft to replace the Argentine Air Force’s legacy Lockheed Martin A-4ARs, IHS Jane’s reports. Argentina’s strenuous economic problems were cited as the cause.

In its pursuit for new fighter aircraft, Argentina cast a wide net, examining a range of Western and Eastern solutions. Among them was the JF-17, which is co-produced by Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) and Chengdu Aircraft Industry Group (CAIG) and the Saab JAS-39 Gripen.

Those avenues did not come to fruition, but Argentina and Israel opened negotiations for the Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) Kfir Block-60. Talks froze and resumed intermittently. In January, reports had emerged that Buenos Aires resumed talks with Tel Aviv for 12-14 IAI Kfir Block-60.

At the end of last month, the Latin American defence publication Defensa reported that Buenos Aires was interested in the Mikoyan MiG-29 and sought 15 fighters from Moscow. During the launch of the MiG-35, the deputy director of Russia’s State Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation Anatoly Pinchuk said Moscow will respond with an offer.
as i predicted, new government isn't interested in military modernization

www quwa.org/2017/02/03/argentina-drops-fighter-replacement-plans/
 
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ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
as i predicted, new government isn't interested in military modernization
Please do not quote significant parts of, or all of articles. Because it infringes copyright and Intellectual Property laws. Secondly post the link to the article. I know that as a newbie you can't post links, but you can still post the full url of the link. As a guide, 10% of an article / work can be legally copied for research and educational purposes.
 
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Kasatka

New Member
Argentinian media is stating that the government is analyzing the purchase of 6 modernized Dassault Super Etendard for the Argentinian Naval Aviation. The Fench Navy is retiring them which would help keep the cost down to ~10M USD total (seems really low... must be 10M each).

I'm not 100% sure this piece of news is legit, as there where many such claims in the recent past which never materialized. Some media outlets even reported the deal was closed and 10 warplanes where bought, which is rubbish. Realistically, there where very few reports of this.

Don't have any hard information regarding the authenticity of this.

Sources (spanish):
https://www.zona-militar.com/2017/05/15/la-armada-argentina-reactivaria-aviones-super-etendard/
http://www.perfil.com/politica/la-f...parle-aviones-cazabombarderos-a-francia.phtml

Personal note: there are a couple more sources but I regard them as even more unreliable as these.
 

swerve

Super Moderator
What Argentina really needs is to restore its ability to police its domestic airspace, & SEMs aren't the right aircraft for that. They're dedicated maritime strike aircraft.

Mirage F.1s, Mirage 2000s, F-16s, Kfirs - any would do, as long as they're sound.
 

Vulcan

Member
Not putting much weight into anything until ink gets put on paper, until then it goes in the 'oooo what about that one?' jar which is Argentine fighter procurement.
 

Yama

New Member
SEM is too slow for air policing. I can see why COAN would be interested in French examples, which are heavily modernized, to maintain the fleets viability but it does nothing to address pressing lack of air defence assets.

Also, just how much mileage there is left in French SEMs? The fleet was flown some 15 years past its original retirement date and saw very heavy use. I should think that the aircraft are all worn out. I think it is telling that none of the private companies rushed to buy them.
 

Kasatka

New Member
I too think the SUE makes no sense. More AEW and maritim Patrol aircraft would.

Argentina has no "war hypothesis" as a political stance (bad translation), so buying naval/strike aircraft makes no sense in that context. Actually, unsure if the current government is maintaining that position.

For border patrol/drug traffic control, GCI and AEW (the latter non existent at the moment) could be paired with IA/AT-63 Pampa IA-58 Pucara or the current purchase of TC-6 Texan. Not 100% sure, but a reorganization of current airbases and assets would be necessary for this to make sense (short strips near key border points). Obviously, lack of ground radar installations is still an issue.

On the other hand, some sources claim the Navy would use the purchased ones for parts, and to try to upgrade current ones.

Still I think the SUE is an obsolete capability at this point, and should be scrapped to save resources.
 

swerve

Super Moderator
Dammit, just buy something! Enough speed & range to intercept any civilians doing naughty things, while carrying a couple of AAMs.

Oh, & Kasatka's right about radar, of course. A couple of modest AEW aircraft (Erieye? On a couple of those stored SAAB 2000? Or on something Embraer?) could be very useful.
 

Waylander

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
I know they are cash strapped but buying some F/A-50, used Gripens or FC-1 should be possible.

Swerve is absolutely right. They have to get their act together and buy something.
 

StobieWan

Super Moderator
Staff member
It's not lack of cash that's the issue I suspect - more and more I start to believe that the civilian government is more afraid of arming their own military than they are of their neighbours.

There are lots and lots of options out there that they could take up, really, yeah, BUY SOMETHING NOW!
 

Kasatka

New Member
It's not lack of cash that's the issue I suspect - more and more I start to believe that the civilian government is more afraid of arming their own military than they are of their neighbours.

There are lots and lots of options out there that they could take up, really, yeah, BUY SOMETHING NOW!
Expanding a bit on your remarks...

The Argentine air-force has been budget-starved since the end of the Falklands/Malvinas conflict. The only substantial purchases where the A4-AR Fight Falcons during the 90's which, to my knowledge, are already at their operational limit. In contrast, the army did receive more equipment. The Argentine navy also did; plans for restarting the TR1700 submarine building program, or something of the sorts, and also minor upgrades to the P3B platform (2015) .

Receiving budget depended a lot on political alignment of the different forces with the ruling party, alas their air force was left to starve during the last government.

Things also get complicated as military expenditure is not seen keenly by some very loud crowds. Spending money in military upgrades now, would also heavily contradict the current government push to get the economy back in track (lowering expenses), with current inflation rates, alleged unemployment etc.. it would look like they are mocking their voters.

I wouldn't expect any new significant air platforms joining the air force's ranks this year, or even the next. I am pretty confident that there could be news in the navy aviations sector, but have yet to hear anything concrete in that regard.

Also, and this is fairly off topic, the fact that there isn't an arms race between South American nations hints that every single nation in it has their hands full with internal strife. Mercosur, OEA and other regional organizations failing to settle completely also points in that direction.
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
South America does enjoy reasonable isolation from much of the crap going in the world and relations with neighbours within the continent are stellar compared to other regions in the world. These facts, along with some unpleasant military interventions against elected governments in the past, understandably leads to lower commitments towards defence and there are pressing needs in other areas as well.
 

George1

New Member
Αrgentina received the first 2 Texan II trainers. The Beechcraft T-6C Texan II aircraft, which the Argentine Air Force recently acquired for the advanced training of the new pilots, departed yesterday from the Textron Aviation Defense factory in the United States, heading to the Military Aviation School.

https : // w w w. facebook. c o m/ FuerzaAereaArgentina.Oficial/posts/10155308080578937

i remind that Argentina has ordered 12 such aircrafts. Well these birds have no fighter capability but they are an upgrade to the obsolete argentina air force
 

swerve

Super Moderator
..., the fact that there isn't an arms race between South American nations hints that every single nation in it has their hands full with internal strife. ....
Not really. What internal strife is there in Chile, Argentina, Uruguay (especially Uruguay), or Brazil? There are political quarrels (as everywhere), there's crime, but the military have kept out of government for many years & there's no sign of them coming back, & no armed rebellions or guerrillas for even longer.

Argentinean governments have allowed their armed forces to decay precisely because they don't see any armed threat, external or internal that the armed forces are needed to counter.
 

George1

New Member
I I have a question about Tecnam P2002JF E-550 trainer aircraft that AAF ordered some time ago.

Here says that:
The aircraft is serial number E-550 and the first of eight P2002 Sierra basic trainers that have been leased by the Argentine Air Force via Aerotec at the Military Aviation School in Cordoba.

The lease deal is on a "pay per hour" model and will last for an initial eighteen months.
http :// militaryaviationreview . com/first-tecnam-p2002-for-argentine-air-force

This means that the payment will be completed in 18 "rents" if i understand right?
 

t68

Well-Known Member
I I have a question about Tecnam P2002JF E-550 trainer aircraft that AAF ordered some time ago.

Here says that:


http :// militaryaviationreview . com/first-tecnam-p2002-for-argentine-air-force

This means that the payment will be completed in 18 "rents" if i understand right?
You would have to see the actual contract, but from that basic wording they have leased the aircraft. So I imagine they have a minimum contract stipend and once they have used the aircraft for X amount of hours there lease deal increses to compensate for additional flight hours.

But as I said you have to see the actual contract to verity the above.
 

George1

New Member
Argentina acquired five decommissioned French deck aircraft Super Etendard

According to the French website www . defens-aero . com, after nearly a year of negotiations, Argentina signed an intergovernmental agreement on October 5, 2017 to purchase five decommissioned Dassault Super Etendard fighter bombers in the Super Etendard Modernisee (SEM) . It is reported that the cost of the contract is 14.23 million euros, of which 12.55 million euros for aircraft and related documentation and spare parts, and 1.68 million euros will cost the re-opening and transportation of aircraft to Argentina.

https :// bmpd. livejournal. com/2886340.html
 

George1

New Member
so whats your opinion on this purchase? Argentina phased out the Super Etendards he had and now buys them again. I think this decision is a setback..
 
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