Argentina Air Force News and Discussion

tonnyc

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Want China Times is worthless as a source. Thanks for looking it up, but Want China Times simply does not have credibility.
 

RobWilliams

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Agreed, I just linked it for the particular chain of thought I picked out :) plus the roll eyes emoticon.
 

ADMk2

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Not your father's Kfir. At a reported $20M and offering F-16 Blm 50 performance, should be a significant capability upgrade for the Argentines.

At 40 Years of age, Kfir Turns into a “Networked Fighter†| Defense Update:
It is 'offered' as providing 'F-16 Block 50 like' performance. Its only customer to date, Columbia, took them to Red Flag and is now looking to supplant them in favour of, you guessed it, Block 50 series F-16's, with the Kfirs used for ground attack and recce missions only...

I'm sure the upgraded Kfir provides enhanced capability compared to earlier models, but a degree of realism has to be placed on such claims.
 

StobieWan

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I think they are out of the warfighting business for now and any "new jets" deal should really focus around a LIFT platform with some limited weapons capability - anything you can hang a pair of winders off and that costs very little to run.
 

swerve

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That requires admission that they're reducing to an air police force, coastguard, & border guard/internal security force.

But even the politicians who are reducing the armed forces to that level by failing to fund them won't admit it, or do anything that overtly shows what they're doing. It's disarmament by stealth, while publicly proclaiming support for the defence of the country with an occasional photo opportunity, e.g. in front of a refitted submarine (for which there is no money for operations or maintenance).
 

StobieWan

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Very true - I think it'd be the smart thing to do but it'd be an uncomfortable thing to admit. Either way, they're in trouble.
 

swerve

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For the current president & her husband who preceded her, the armed forces have long been seen as enemies (with good reason, in the past), so there's been no interest in funding them. But there are voters who want to believe the rhetoric of defending the country, 'recovering Las Malvinas', etc., so some pretence is useful to keep some of them (those who don't look too closely) on side.

Refitting a submarine in a domestic yard buys votes of shipyard & industrial workers - & industrial workers are traditional supporters of the current governing party. Ditto funding participation in the KC-390 programme. But they don't expect any military professionals to vote for them, so see no advantage in paying for anything more than a bit of theatre.
 

ngatimozart

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Argentina has reportedly retired their Mirage fleet, slashed the working hours of the service and cut the budget for supplies and personnel. The core of their air force is now made up of ~25 A-4AR aircraft.

No updates with respect to the supposed Kfir purchase.

Argentine Air Force cuts working hours, retires Mirage fleet - IHS Jane's 360
Wave Goodbye to the Argentine Air Force | War Is Boring
I read the comments in the War Is Boring article and they made for interesting reading. The comment that the JF17 wasn't good enough for them - basically as one commentator put it, the Argie AF wanting a F22 from a JF17 appeared to speak volumes. So whilst the Air Force have lost their fighters, they are very proud and pride full. Given that the civilian govts have restricted their access to resources, this could have some of the AF officers start wishing for the old days and thinking about what used to be South Americas second favourite sport - putsches and military coups. Probably not a probability but maybe a possibility. If I was the current govt I would be keeping a very close eye on the AF in particular.
 

RobWilliams

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They wanted a Westenised JF-17 which nobody else was interested in funding, a similar scenario to a no-UK equipment Gripen, the result is massively high unit costs which they cannot afford.

It'd take a major political shift to turn their armed services (or at least navy/AF, no idea about the state of their army) into an effective fighting force.
 

Haavarla

Active Member
For the current president & her husband who preceded her, the armed forces have long been seen as enemies (with good reason, in the past), so there's been no interest in funding them. But there are voters who want to believe the rhetoric of defending the country, 'recovering Las Malvinas', etc., so some pretence is useful to keep some of them (those who don't look too closely) on side.

Refitting a submarine in a domestic yard buys votes of shipyard & industrial workers - & industrial workers are traditional supporters of the current governing party. Ditto funding participation in the KC-390 programme. But they don't expect any military professionals to vote for them, so see no advantage in paying for anything more than a bit of theatre.
I totaly agree With this asessment.
The current sosial democratic goverment has no real interest in shifting funding(increase) funding to the armed Forces.

And afaik, their military is reduced in such manner over many years, that their military has simply no tools left to pose as an domestic self interest Group.
There is no military Junta left, so any notions of a coup, is far from reality, as i see some of the posters here speculate in.

Anyway, this is ofcourse the best outcome regardless of different point of view.
Argentina doesn't have any sore neighbor that rattle their Cages eighter.
And the Whole region is a low tension teather.
 

ngatimozart

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The latest installment of the Argentine fighter replacement dramas. It is being reported that Argentina is to sign for 14 Kfir from Israel Aircraft Industries today. The aircraft are fitted with AESA radar from Elta. If this deal goes through it will not cause the Brits to shake in their boots.
 

ADMk2

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The latest installment of the Argentine fighter replacement dramas. It is being reported that Argentina is to sign for 14 Kfir from Israel Aircraft Industries today. The aircraft are fitted with AESA radar from Elta. If this deal goes through it will not cause the Brits to shake in their boots.
Interesting choice given the Colombians reportedly weren't quite so enthusiastic about their Block 60 KFirs after their first taste of Red Flag and were looking to see if they could afford to replace them with Block 52, F-16's...
 

StobieWan

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Let's hold off til they actually get some jets because this is the latest in a long line of "Argentina will get.." reports. Always seems to fall through when they actually have to show up with cash.
 

swerve

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Interesting choice given the Colombians reportedly weren't quite so enthusiastic about their Block 60 KFirs after their first taste of Red Flag and were looking to see if they could afford to replace them with Block 52, F-16's...
Colombia's Kfirs are not Block 60. Colombia has been reported to be looking at a replacement because of a very high loss rate in the last few years, leading to a lack of trust in the aircraft - but allow for such things as one aircraft being lost when an Israeli company pilot missed the runway (doh! - IAI replaced the aircraft), & the crash rate improves.
 

ngatimozart

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According to a 2014 Janes story, 18 Block 60 Kfir for Argentina were in the region of US$500 million which is a pretty good investment when you think about it. This defense-update article covers the Block 60 capabilities. I note that it has Link 16 capabilities. A further article from National Interest describes the IAI experience with aircraft upgrades and modifications.
 

Kasatka

New Member
The Argentine Ministry of Defence, through the Oficina Nacional de Contrataciones (that acquires assets for the government), on 1 February issued a high priority request for engine replacements and additional resources to overhaul its Lockheed Martin A-4AR Skyhawk (Fightinghawk) fighters.
source: janes.com/article/57797/argentina-seeks-to-renovate-a-4ar-fleet-with-new-engines

Little (for what Argentina actually needs), but makes sense... At least if one takes into account that there are currently zero air-combat platforms available in that country. From what I can remember, Mirage III/Finger platform was retired and A-4AR's are mostly/entirely grounded due to lack of funding for even basic maintenance (ejection seat rockets where past expiration date).
 

RobWilliams

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source: janes.com/article/57797/argentina-seeks-to-renovate-a-4ar-fleet-with-new-engines

Little (for what Argentina actually needs), but makes sense... At least if one takes into account that there are currently zero air-combat platforms available in that country. From what I can remember, Mirage III/Finger platform was retired and A-4AR's are mostly/entirely grounded due to lack of funding for even basic maintenance (ejection seat rockets where past expiration date).
Yup, they need a severe cash injection to recover. Their sovereign airspace is left to Tucanos and Pampas. . . .
 

Vulcan

Member
In another turn in the Argentinian Air Force fiasco, despite signing a contract with Israel for a number of Kfir's by the last Government (who kindly left the detail about paying for them to the current Government), the Argentinian DefMin is to negotiate with the US for a purchase of 12 - 14 F-5E and a number of T-34C trainers

This is currently on the Jane's homepage, can't post links right now.

Just goes to show that plans to properly reinstate fighter capability are some ways off, however overall i'm actually quite impressed at the drive the current Government has done in terms of defence. They're negotiating for 3 more A69 corvettes for France to expand their inventory of the type to 6.
 

ngatimozart

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In another turn in the Argentinian Air Force fiasco, despite signing a contract with Israel for a number of Kfir's by the last Government (who kindly left the detail about paying for them to the current Government), the Argentinian DefMin is to negotiate with the US for a purchase of 12 - 14 F-5E and a number of T-34C trainers

This is currently on the Jane's homepage, can't post links right now.

Just goes to show that plans to properly reinstate fighter capability are some ways off, however overall i'm actually quite impressed at the drive the current Government has done in terms of defence. They're negotiating for 3 more A69 corvettes for France to expand their inventory of the type to 6.
You can post links after 10 posts. Do you have a current source for the F5E claim? The only item I can find is a 2005 Key Publisling comment. I do not believe that the US would sell Argentina fast jets of any description because it is not in their interest to do so. The UK would strongly lobby against such a proposal with some success. Secondly how are the Argentines going to pay for the aircraft even if they were able to acquire them?
 
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