You and me both.I best not say anything because I would probably get a warning or banned, or both all on the same post... due to bad language
Royal New Zealand Navy Discussions and Updates
- Thread starter Padman
- Start date
Nighthawk.NZ
Well-Known Member
Wasn't there more to that refit as well like... ripping up all the old decking and relaying that fireproof crap that Wellington had (I can't remember the name of it) As well as some of the machinery spaces and equipment ...?
Both Te Kaka and Te Man have already most of that kind of work done to them in phase 1 and 2 etc...
Canterbury didn't get some of the extras, like additional fuel tanks etc. More focused on electronics upgrades. I think that's when they started withdrawing Seacat, as well, as I seem to recall she deployed to East Timor (based on photos) without CIWS.
Nighthawk.NZ
Well-Known Member
I am sitting on the fence on that decision, there are for and against of the decision of Sea Ceptor... from cost, weight, less sensors required, a very accurate system (apparently), fire and forget missile ... to supply lines, and local allies not using same system, missile range, hitting power of said missile... etc, etc, etc...
And I am assuming there is more to it than that as to why the decision was to go with Sea Ceptor rather than ESSM...
However this (going by the past posts on this forum) this has been bashed and discussed, talked and argued over and over...
Anybody able to expound (paraphrase) on what Mr Scott says in the rest of his article? Sadly, I can't afford Jane's exorbitant subscription fees. Just curious as to what the problem may be. In the March 2018 Navy Today it was stated that Te Kaha would be available for tasking in May 2020 - presumably that would be after the crew had been worked-up? I note that our esteemed Minister of Defence has recently paid a visit to the Seaspan yard. If I recall, in a Treasury paper several years ago - it was inferred that there were issues with electro-magnetic interference / compatibility.
In further depressing news, I see Mr Scott has another article out ... the first Type 31 apparently won't enter service till (groan!) .... mid 2027! (link)
On the T31, this is the document on which that report is based
https://assets.publishing.service.g...ile/860019/20200120_-_Meg_Hillier_T31_AOA.pdf
The In Service date is May 2027 with all ship delivers by the end of 2028, and with the first ship “in the water” in 2023. That suggests the “In Service Date” is after completion of all trials, work up, etc.
https://assets.publishing.service.g...ile/860019/20200120_-_Meg_Hillier_T31_AOA.pdf
The In Service date is May 2027 with all ship delivers by the end of 2028, and with the first ship “in the water” in 2023. That suggests the “In Service Date” is after completion of all trials, work up, etc.
Novascotiaboy
Active Member
The NZDF website states that Manawanui was do to return to the operational fleet in November of 2019. Does anyone have info on whether she did or is she still undergoing her upgrading with the military comms and other mil spec improvements?
Nighthawk.NZ
Well-Known Member
Rolling in the deep. Our newest ship Aotearoa is undergoing her final sea trials off the coast of South Korea in preparation for her sail to New Zealand. This allows the crew to get acquainted with their new ship and her capabilities and for the ship to show what she’s got.
Hardly a reliable source but every weekday I head north over the harbour bridge & have a quick glance over toward DNB. Manawanui has been in the same spot for most of the time since it arrived in May & is still there as of today. Given the rapidity of the work undertaken early last year compared to what's being done at DNB you'd think she'll be radically different to what she looked like upon arrival in May. To be fair the DNB work will be under the covers stuff but jees it's taking a while. She's supposedly to do 'extensive' sea trials about now before heading to Napier for the annual Art Deco festival.... I expect that was just hot air from the PR wallahs!
kiwipatriot69
Active Member
If I'm not mistaken it doesn't appear to be equipped with ciws as other illustrations of her and articles mentioned she would be?Rolling in the deep. Our newest ship Aotearoa is undergoing her final sea trials off the coast of South Korea in preparation for her sail to New Zealand. This allows the crew to get acquainted with their new ship and her capabilities and for the ship to show what she’s got.
Nighthawk.NZ
Well-Known Member
Most likely get equipped once here in New Zealand... and it probably won't get done straight away either.
You have to remember these are only sea trials... lol
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Novascotiaboy
Active Member
Thanks Gibbo for the update. Greatly appreciated. Unfortunate that the process is so slow but it is to be expected. Once she gets away from the wharf she should prove her worth to the RNZN and the GOTD.
I came across this Official Information request (link) from 2017. It says the intention is "fitted for but not with" the CIWS & mini-Typhoon armament (see p.4)- so I would be very surprised if anything has changed in that regard. I wouldn't expect an embarked NH-90 either, just a Seasprite occasionally. The concept art released at the purchase announcement also didn't show any icing features. I guess if they had left the rainbows and the flying unicorns in on those drawings, it would have given the game away! My major concerns are the ship's speed (16 knots is pretty slow for a naval tanker), and the lack of a least one stores transfer station (something like the US standard STREAM rig would be ideal).
Digging around the Parliamentary website, this document (link) from mid-2019 suggests Manawanui will enter service 1st-Quarter 2020 (p.3) - so expect late-March I suppose. It also states that Te Kaha's upgrade was then running 4-months behind schedule and expected her to be accepted after her refit in September 2020. Te Mana was then on-schedule. From the recent Jane's article, Te Kaha now seems to have have slipped to 6-months behind. Apparently, Lockheed Martin Canada has underestimated the differences between the ANZAC class and the Halifax class, and the difficulty of the Te Kaha upgrade! Hence the price increase of $148m. I don't know where I was getting the idea that electro-magnetic interference / compliance issues were part of the problem. I'm probably wrong about that. Seems like a systems integration issue. The systems the ANZACs are getting would perhaps shame a modern corvette, let alone a frigate - so I don't know what can be so difficult. Just a single Smart-S Mk2 air & surface radar (perhaps trying to do too much? - the Halifax class has the Smart-S as the long-range radar and an upgraded Sea Giraffe for mid-range air & surface surveillance), a single S-band & 2 X-band nav radars, no fire control radars, a couple of optronic directors (does the aft one have an issue with the heat from the funnels?), and a brand new missile system from the RN (which seems to work with the Type 997 radar and their CMS). A real grab-bag of different sensors (all bought beforehand in 2014 apparently). How could it possibly go wrong?
Aotearoa is supposedly to commission in May 2020 (see here, p.5).
Both linked documents are well-worth the read for other projects as well.
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Nighthawk.NZ
Well-Known Member
Does not surprise me one bit... the one I read (which I cannot find now... ) and dated earlier when the designs were first released basically said was going to have them installed so that has changed.
As for speed Endeavour could only do 15 on a good day.
As for speed Endeavour could only do 15 on a good day.
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kiwipatriot69
Active Member
Thanks for that, the government repor you gave links to on defence acquisitions was an interesting read.
The upper decks of an ANZAC are incredibly crowded from an EMI perspective so it is entirely possible that more time than anticipated had to be spent in resolving mutual interference issues (that could easily be coded as "systems integration"). I have no specific knowledge of how complex that would have been in a Halifax but the upper decks do look quite a lot cleaner in that respect; and even if not, the actual issues will vary from ship design to ship design; and they may even vary somewhat between two ships of the same design.
Todjaeger
Potstirrer
One thing I have wondered about, is if/when more naval vessels will start utilizing fibre optic wiring to reduce some of the EMI issues, and whether or not doing so would make an appreciable difference in the EMI issues. The material is of course more specialized and installation and repairs are more complicated, but the potential bandwidth available vs. most other wiring looms is significant.
The new ANZAC masts use lots of fibre but the EMI issues start when the electrons leave the antenna not generally in the cabling. It's interference between the various emitters and surrounding equipment (not all of it comms gear) that make emitter placement a bit of a bugbear.
oldsig (now 30 years out of practice and 10 years out of date)
Yes absolutely convinced she will be the darling of the fleet & a very capable player! She won't be far from going to sea.