Royal Canadian Navy Discussions and updates

[Calculus]

Yep, it was likely the same team that made the complaint. They understandably did not want to turn over IP information to Irving which is why they made this "Hail Mary" offer directly to the Canadian government. They were pi$$ed and decided there was no point in jumping through all the hoops in the tender process and wasting a $hitload on money on a no-win proposition. Again, it will be interesting to learn if there are other bids besides the vendors which have declared themselves.

John, can you please explain what you mean by "IP information". It's public record that the combat systems IP goes directly to the Government of Canada, not Irving. I'm just trying to understand all the angst about this supposed IP issue.

I can't find the article at the moment (will post if I do), but I remember a number of months ago reading in a Canadian news website, a number of the bidders (and at least three nations were mentioned, including Australia), were very concerned about the way Canada was running the bidding process for the CSC project.

It basically came down to the fact that in a 'normal' bidding process, that all of the information on the 'offered' design went straight to the particular Government for a possible decision, eg, business to Government or business/Government to Government.

The point of the article was, and why there were complaints, was that the tender documents (and all of the bid information, including sensitive IP information), was to be sent to a 'private' company charged with receiving the bids on behalf of the Canadian Government to review (the concern of course is that that private company could also be a future 'competitor', makes sense, obviously!!).

This is what I find strange, the Canadian Government has instead of receiving that information directly, has appointed a 'commercial third party' to receive, and evaluate, that information on it's behalf.

I don't blame the bidders one little bit, it would be like the US Government asking that all bids for a project be sent to Boeing or LM for evaluation, why would anyone be mad enough to do that??

Anyway, just an another example of how screwed up the Canadian defence procurement process is!!!

Please see link: Speaking notes for National Shipbuilding Strategy technical briefing on Canadian Surface Combatant request for proposal – National Shipbuilding Strategy – Sea – Defence Procurement – Buying and Selling – PSPC

The CMS will be awarded by the Government of Canada directly. No Irving involvement. I believe the supposed IP issue has been severely overblown. This does not look to be much different from the Australian competition, and appears to be well structured to ensure fairness.

 

[John Fedup]

From your link IP rights will be negotiated during the evaluation process. There is nothing usual about this for naval tenders except in Canada’s case some demands can be unreasonable. As for Irving’s involvement in the process, they are being checked somewhat but still having the prime contractor for the build sitting in on some of the evaluation meetings probably doesn’t sit well with some of the bidders(all except BAE).

 

[spoz]

Can’t see why Navantia would mind; that’s exactly what happened in Australia for Sea 4000, which, after all, they won.

 

[Calculus]

Precisely spoz. I couldn't agree more. I don't see anything particularly onerous here with regards to IP that would preclude a bid. Another one of the many falsehoods being spread about this program.

 

[John Fedup]

I do not believe the Italian-French team was the only bidder to express concerns about IP rights back in early 2017. Clearly some of this was addressed but how much will be confirmed during the evaluation process. Anyone following Canadian defence procurement knows how programs fall off the rails. The problem is it could be due to budget, IP rights, or something else and the government won’t elaborate. Case in point, the delivery for AORs from SeaSpan, apparently that is a secret. WTF more do you need to know about how junior’s government handles defence procurement? IMHO, not very well!

 

[John Fedup]

Wow, as if Canadian veterans haven't been screwed around enough already, junior has found an epic fail civil servant to continue the carnage over at Veterans Affairs. I wonder what steaming coil of excrement he has found for assistant deputy of defence procurement? Hopefully a cadaver, less trouble for the CSC and fighter replacement programs!

Defence procurement chief heads to VAC, no word yet on her replacement

 

[Calculus]

The new (interim) supply ship seems to be doing well: Canada’s newest supply ship — MV Asterix — begins training

Some good pictures at the Davie Twitter site: https://twitter.com/chantierdavie?lang=en

 

[ASSAIL]

Given the delay in construction of the Queenston ships at Seaspan I'd be thinking the Asterix will be well into her second 5 year lease option and maybe another before both new vessels are built.
It's a shame the second ship option was discarded at Davie as there will be a one Ocean deployment scenario now for some time.

Construction of Canadian navy’s supply ships delayed until 2019, Liberal report reveals

 

[John Fedup]

junior will likely throw Davie an order prior to next year’s election to shore up his voter support in Quebec. SeaSpan might very well end up losing the AOR build. The BC vote will go the socialist NDP anyway so junior has nothing to lose. A shame there is no other option other than Davie if SeaSpan is dumped.

 

[John Fedup]

This link provides details on why the case against Admiral Norman isn’t progressing as of late and likely never will. Hopefully, when Normal sues the government, his compensation will be at least as much as junior paid that piece of terrorist shit Omar Khadr.

Political information Mark Norman accused of leaking was already well known in Ottawa: ex-defence lobbyist

 

[John Fedup]

Sea Kings will no longer be operated at Shearwater and CH-148 cyclones will start operations. RCN ships on the west coast will still be operating Sea Kings. Only half the Cyclones have been delivered since the order was placed 12 years ago and roughly 25 years since Chretien cancelled the RCN's preferred choice for maritime helicopters, the EH-101 (now AH-101). Nice work Liberals.

Photos: Goodbye Sea Kings

 

[John Fedup]

More on the continuing Admiral Norman saga. Hopefully by election time this will become a major issue that bites junior in the a$$ big time, as it bloody well should.

NP View: Vice-Admiral Mark Norman gets the Kafka treatment from the Liberals

 

[t68]

More on the continuing Admiral Norman saga. Hopefully by election time this will become a major issue that bites junior in the a$$ big time, as it bloody well should.

NP View: Vice-Admiral Mark Norman gets the Kafka treatment from the Liberals

if he did it he bloody deserves a medal, I'm starting to wonder if the current government would give a Rudd/Gillard government a run for its money
Maybe the electorate is starting to wise up up miss handling projects, what he is doing to defence is treason's in my book.

Canadians Didn't Sign Up For Trudeau's Scandals And Bad Policies

 

[John Fedup]

The Liberal Party has a long track record on this BS. Junior has had great role models who were former PMs, his old man and the worst sack of of shit ever, Chretien. Junior has 20 months or so to match Chretien but the moron electorate here will likely give him a job out to 2023-4 so he should surpass the shit from Shawinigan as worst ever.

 

[ngatimozart]

The Liberal Party has a long track record on this BS. Junior has had great role models who were former PMs, his old man and the worst sack of of shit ever, Chretien. Junior has 20 months or so to match Chretien but the moron electorate here will likely give him a job out to 2023-4 so he should surpass the shit from Shawinigan as worst ever.

No need for this language on here. No more of it.

 

[Calculus]

The new (interim) supply ship seems to be doing well: Canada’s newest supply ship — MV Asterix — begins training

Some good pictures at the Davie Twitter site: Davie Shipbuilding (@chantierdavie) | Twitter

More on this: http://markets.businessinsider.com/...es-Full-Operational-Capability-FOC-1014472608

If you follow the link in the article, there are some great picture of Asterix underway conducting RAS and VertRep.

 

[John Fedup]

I guess this thread is as good a place as any to post this off-topic piece that shows the apathetic attitudes of Canadian citizens and government concerning the Canadian military.

Canada skips ceremony for soldier who wrote In Flanders Fields

 

[John Fedup]

It has now been 2 months since the CSC bid close date and the the government has declined to say how many bids were received. Three vendors have announced they submitted bids. Odense Marine Tecnologies (Iver Huitfeldt designers) was approved to bid on the CSC and some here felt they stood a reasonable chance of being successful. I am beginning to think they declined to bid.

 

[Novascotiaboy]

It has now been 2 months since the CSC bid close date and the the government has declined to say how many bids were received. Three vendors have announced they submitted bids. Odense Marine Tecnologies (Iver Huitfeld designers) was approved to bid on the CSC and some here felt they stood a reasonable chance of being successful. I am beginning to think they declined to bid.

It would seem that the most likely leading candidate for the CSC is the Type 26. Mission bay flexibility, large hangar and flight deck and RN design and engineering standards along with the existing ties to Irving. The downside with the Type 26 is that it is likely the most expensive option. Although the Allion bid is a fantastic product its single hangar and no flexible mission bay to me makes it less likely to be the choice. I have been a fan of the Danish designs and feel that as an arm chair observer that there is a place for both the Iver and Absalon designs within the RCN. Unfortunately it does appear they haven't bid.

 

[John Fedup]

It does appear they didn't bid. I wonder why, was it for technical reasons or an assessment dealing with Canada's procurement system was considered a waste of time and money? I agree the Type 26 is likely favoured by the RCN brass (and likely Irving as well) and is probably in the lead but an aggressive bid by Navantia should be in the running, especially if the USN and Australia go that way. Wouldn't be surprised to see the government delay their decision until seeing what others select. After all, if there is anything this government is good at, it is putting off military procurement!