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Royal Canadian Navy Discussions and updates

Discussion in 'Navy & Maritime' started by stephen weist, Sep 30, 2005.

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  1. stephen weist

    stephen weist New Member

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    The tribals will have to be replaced in the near future, anyone have any thoughts on possible replacements. I think the replacements should be slightly larger to accomodate the CnC task and also for future upgrades. I think the anti air/missile capability should be enhanced as the city class frigates could handle the ASW component of any taskforce. Would six be enough, this would leave on avail on each coast at all times.
     
  2. JAF

    JAF New Member

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    Re: Canadian tribal replacement

    De Zeven Provincien Class. The Arleigh Burkes are too expensive in terms of cash and personnel. The LCF meets your suggested requirements of size and Command functions and actually have a lower manpower footprint than the Tribals.
     
  3. tatra

    tatra New Member Verified Defense Pro

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    Re: Canadian tribal replacement

    Actually, Canada co-funded the APAR infrastructure with Netherlands and Germany. In fact, rather than LCF, you should look as a Halifax class derivative with APAR.

    See: http://www.hazegray.org/navhist/canada/current/futurddg/

    www.hazegray.org

    Look in: Canadian Navy of Yesterday & Today

    Look under Destroyers, concept DDG in:

    The Canadian Navy of Yesterday & Today. Current Canadian Ship Listing 2005

    "PROVINCE" class concept (DDG) air defence / anti-submarine destroyer
     
  4. slapshot

    slapshot New Member

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    Re: Canadian tribal replacement

    Hi I am a little confused by the tribal clasification? Are you talking about the Iroquois class that needs replacement? I know dumb question :)
     
  5. JAF

    JAF New Member

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    Re: Canadian tribal replacement

    Fr: Slapshot, quote; “Hi I am a little confused by the tribal clasification? Are you talking about the Iroquois class that needs replacement? I know dumb questionâ€

    Yes, the Tribal class and Iroquois are the same

    Fr Tetra, quote: “Actually, Canada co-funded the APAR infrastructure with Netherlands and Germany. In fact, rather than LCF, you should look as a Halifax class derivative with APAR.â€

    I don’t agree. The Halifax design is getting on in age and is not nearly as stealthy as it could be. They are cramped vessels cuz so much stuff has been crammed in to a small hull, relatively speaking, compared to the LCF. The design would need so much tinkering in order for them to become a truly modern AAW/Task force command platform that they would have little in common with the original design. Additionally the Halifax still has a larger manpower footprint than the LCF. I doubt building new ones with AAW/ command functions as their primary role will reduce this.
     
  6. Brit

    Brit New Member

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    Re: Canadian tribal replacement

    Second hand Spruance (sp?) or a MEKO design with large hanger wouldn't surprise me.
     
  7. Pursuit Curve

    Pursuit Curve New Member

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    Re: Canadian tribal replacement

    While I confess to have limited knowledge of naval matters, I will say that the priority should be to make sure that our ships can operate in ice conditions that are found in the arctic. Also a Littoral capability perhaps with the help of our Norwregian and swedish friends in procuring a lean, mean Coastal patrol and arctic patrol class that can also be good in a scrap.
     
  8. slapshot

    slapshot New Member

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    Re: Canadian tribal replacement

    Thanks Jaf for the clarification. I think the Canadian goverment not the Navy will just do another Life Extension Program or go cheep and buy second hand ships if they can. Case in point the Upholders we got from the Britts. We seem to do that to often for my taste in this country. Yes they need to be replaced but I hope they do it right and get the best for our guys and gals who do a great job with what they are given.
     
  9. stephen weist

    stephen weist New Member

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    Re: Canadian tribal replacement

    slapshot, the correct class name is Tribal, the ships were then named after Native tribes in Canada. the Iroquois was the first of the class but alot of people call the class after her.
     
  10. PhillTaj

    PhillTaj New Member

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    Re: Canadian tribal replacement

    The JSS has overshadowed all other Navy projects. A shame really.

    I just cant see a liberal government replacing the Tribals.

    Thats why im voting conservative lol, even though their track record on defense is just as bad.
     
  11. JAF

    JAF New Member

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    Re: Canadian tribal replacement

    What is the JSS
     
  12. Dr Phobus

    Dr Phobus New Member

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    Re: Canadian tribal replacement

    Some interesting thoughts here, my 5 cents worth is:

    1-yes they will use APAR system with Mk41 VLS, or the newer VLS system now under contruction. They will use standard III/ESSM/Tomohawk (maybe the later in time), the number of VLS launchers will be similar to the LCF/F-124(no more than 6x8 probably). It will carry an active LF towed array, 5in gun, CIWS (Sea-RAM ?) and a cylcone ASW helo.

    2-it will be on a whole new warship design, no up-dated or off the shelf types. The candians will need to retrain some within state warships design ability.

    3-i imagine no more than 3-4 units will be built.

    4- off topic, i do not consider halifax a successful design, any comments ?
     
  13. JAF

    JAF New Member

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    Re: Canadian tribal replacement


    Why? By what standard of success do you measure. Consider what Canada had beofre then. 30+ year old steamers.
     
  14. Dr Phobus

    Dr Phobus New Member

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    Re: Canadian tribal replacement

    For a large vessel i consider it under armed, its above deck VLS system along the side of the hanger has not allowed much exspansion of its firepower. It has a 57mm gun and onw CIWS. It is a shame with was not equipped with 8cell Mk 41 VLS below deck. Its an opinion, its a good looking ship and designed for atalantic ASW missions..
     
  15. JAF

    JAF New Member

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    Re: Canadian tribal replacement


    Interesting. I was just curious.:) On first inspection much of what you have written is bang on.

    When the ship was designed (Pre 1985) The sparrow was one of a few choices of PDMS. The MK 41 VLS at the time was earmarked for Standard II, which the Halifax class is not designed to use, being primarily, as you have rightly indicated, an ASW vessel. The other choices of the day were Tomahawks, which you, me and everyone else can forget about Canada ever having, and VLS ASROC, not in the budget.

    Now that the Evolved Sea Sparrow has come into being, and with greater oprions for the MK 41, hind sight is always 20/20. 32 VLS in total (16 per side that is) still seems like plenty of PDMS missiles.

    As for the Bofors Mk II 57mm, it was reasoned that at the time it would have a greater duo role of surface action against small attack boats and as a secondary PDGS.

    Evolving as these discussions naturally do, what role do you see for a 5 in gun on a frigate or destroyer?
     
  16. Dr Phobus

    Dr Phobus New Member

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    Re: Canadian tribal replacement


    The 127mm gun has evolved, with the excalaber round, its extened range with precision ability, thus, ones warship has a useful land attack ability, a very current role. In all, a new and important role. The 57mm gun, is a good light gun system, with the ability to develop into some form of CIWS..

    The quad pack VLS ESSM is a concept that does go back aways. MK 41 was always meant for mutli-missile ability. Off the top of my head i can not remember the exact date. However, the halixfax carries only 16 RIM-7M, it would have been a sweet vessel with the Mk 41 8-16 cell...
     
  17. Sea Toby

    Sea Toby New Member

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    I think the Candians should build what the Australians will build to replace their destroyers, especially if the Aussies choose a scaled down version of the Arleigh Burke class that Gibbs&Cox are designing. Otherwise, its the Spanish Aegis frigate/destroyer.
     
  18. Salty Dog

    Salty Dog Defense Professional Verified Defense Pro

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    Halifax-Class Frigates Modernization

    Halifax-Class Frigates Modernization: Canadian Forces' Frigates Will Have a Host of New Upgrades by 2017

     
  19. Sea Toby

    Sea Toby New Member

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    So no replacement ships for the destroyers, and mid-life upgrades for the frigates.... These upgrades are going to cost almost as much as new frigates.
     
  20. contedicavour

    contedicavour New Member

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    Sad news for the Canadian Navy :( - at least a couple of extended Halifax with SM-2 would have been useful... I wonder what sort of AAW upgrade the Halifax are going to get... especially regarding area defence.

    cheers