Boeing Unveils New Stealthy F-15

t68

Well-Known Member
too many carcinogencs.

the safety hazard list for the disposal process would have been somewhat eyebrow lifting..
I know who much they charge me down the local tip with the box trailer, hate to see how much defence got charged. Someone will probably have a house built on it in 10/15 years. :xmas
 

jack412

Active Member
GF, couldn't they safely take the nuke plasma generators out of them and so they had to bury them at Maralinga?
 

Abraham Gubler

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
They should have at least been scrapped and recycled :(
$20 mil to bring them to a standard to be legally scrapped in Australia, $100,000 for the melted down aluminium... Even shipping them back to the US to Davis Monthan would have cost millions.

I'm sure the Chinese would have made a nice bid on them to scrap no matter how much it would cost them to ship them to China and cover the health costs of the fuel tanks and other nasties. But that would be in major breech of their conditions of sale and just not good strategy.

Strange as it may seem the best place for them is underground somewhere out the back of RAAF Amberley. And there are 13 left above ground for various museums and the like.
 

ADMk2

Just a bloke
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
“Not a pound for air to ground” was just a slogan. The F-15A has quite impressive air to ground capability. It was a more accurate bomb platform than dedicated bombers like the F-111 and A-7. This was why the Israelis brought the aircraft. The ‘no air to ground’ thing was just fighter mafia spin.

What the F-15C as pitched to the RAAF lacked was integration with LGBs and Harpoon which the F/A-18 had thanks to the USN. McAir had developed a full swing role capability F-15, it later became the F-15E, but the additional cost of the F-15 compared to the F/A-18 was prohibitive. Also the F/A-18 had a more advanced cockpit which like the F-35 today had everyone rightly excited back in the late 1970s and early 80s.

That the RAAF was happy to buy the F/A-18 over the F-15 shows just how unimportant the F-15s edge in supersonic speed and un-refuelled radius is to the RAAF. The same issues apply today despite all the internet babble about drawing radius circles around Darwin and Uber-Flankers and the like.
The lack of LGB and Harpoon was what I was referring to, I just chose the popular phrase to describe the F-15's limited air to ground capability (dumb bombs only)...

:D
 

ADMk2

Just a bloke
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
$20 mil to bring them to a standard to be legally scrapped in Australia, $100,000 for the melted down aluminium... Even shipping them back to the US to Davis Monthan would have cost millions.

I'm sure the Chinese would have made a nice bid on them to scrap no matter how much it would cost them to ship them to China and cover the health costs of the fuel tanks and other nasties. But that would be in major breech of their conditions of sale and just not good strategy.

Strange as it may seem the best place for them is underground somewhere out the back of RAAF Amberley. And there are 13 left above ground for various museums and the like.
OMG, imagine how screwed we'd be if the Chinese got F-111 Supercruisers...

:nutkick
 

jack412

Active Member
I don't know about a f-111 but It looks like we sold a SH to Gen. Ma at our china talks, just before Obama flew in
 

fretburner

Banned Member
It doesn't matter even if they do.

capability is not about an uberjet - its about system capability.

china and india are a golden mile away from the systems level of capability
What if the Chinese and Indians get help from the Russians ala Korean War and Vietnam War?

---
In a different note... I thought this was really interesting.

"The F-15E Strike Eagles at Mountain Home (AFB) also have a hook, but it is mainly for emergency landings," Rann said. "If someone loses their hydraulics and doesn't have any brakes they can drop the hook, catch the wire and still land relatively safely. However, the traps on the ships will really stop you quickly, a lot quicker than the ones on the ground."

First time I ever heard/read about an Eagle with a hook!
 

vivtho

New Member
I thought most/all military combat aircraft had hooks, just not as strong as the ones on an aircraft carrier.
For all practical purposes, they're just as strong as those on naval aircraft. Land-based aircraft just don't carry the hydraulics the raise and lower them. Once the pilot drops the hook, it stays down until the maintenance crew get to the aircraft.

The USAF has been putting hooks on its aircraft for decades now. The earliest USAF fighter with a hook that I can remember is the F-100.

Any idea if this practice is carried out by other manufacturers as well Tornado, Typhoon etc.? I do know that Russian/Soviet fighters did not have it.
 

Rimasta

Member
even as a joke that's not funny, I hope this is a secure secret location :D
I know this is a one is bordering a one line reply but i've got to ask, why would you bury an airplane? why not scrap it at least? and those look like B-1's, why B-1's?
 

jack412

Active Member
For all practical purposes, they're just as strong as those on naval aircraft. Land-based aircraft just don't carry the hydraulics the raise and lower them. Once the pilot drops the hook, it stays down until the maintenance crew get to the aircraft.

The USAF has been putting hooks on its aircraft for decades now. The earliest USAF fighter with a hook that I can remember is the F-100.

Any idea if this practice is carried out by other manufacturers as well Tornado, Typhoon etc.? I do know that Russian/Soviet fighters did not have it.
Yes the hooks are just as strong but the aircraft they are attached to aren't, I think you will find that if a conventional plane uses the hook, it will be off to the shop for a complete inspection and testing and it will be a while before it's back in the air
 

Gryphon

New Member
Look Familiar?

Got up close look at NASA F-15B Active last week. That's a big canard
McDac used the Horizontal Stab from an F/A-18 for the 'Active'. Employees that I talked with said the aircraft's STOL performance was amazing.
 
Silent Eagle

McDac used the Horizontal Stab from an F/A-18 for the 'Active'. Employees that I talked with said the aircraft's STOL performance was amazing.
The F-15 remains a beautifull and formidable opponent to most anything except the F-22, F-35, possibly pak-fa. In my personal opinion the F-22 is far superior to anything even remotely operational, and having observed it first hand at Oskosh and on the tube even given its cost and current O-2 system concerns, it seems that as the F-35s expense and shortcomings are rapidly increasing it should remind us that a bird in hand is worth two in the bush. Given the Russian and Chinese posturing and increasing beligerance, only the seriouly nieve believe that a UAV is the most effective deterant against future communist aggression. I mean that with all due respect to the Russian and Chinese people, whom I hold in very high regard. Reopen the Raptor line before its to late, really!
 

ADMk2

Just a bloke
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
The F-15 remains a beautifull and formidable opponent to most anything except the F-22, F-35, possibly pak-fa. In my personal opinion the F-22 is far superior to anything even remotely operational, and having observed it first hand at Oskosh and on the tube even given its cost and current O-2 system concerns, it seems that as the F-35s expense and shortcomings are rapidly increasing it should remind us that a bird in hand is worth two in the bush. Given the Russian and Chinese posturing and increasing beligerance, only the seriouly nieve believe that a UAV is the most effective deterant against future communist aggression. I mean that with all due respect to the Russian and Chinese people, whom I hold in very high regard. Reopen the Raptor line before its to late, really!
It is too late. You may have missed it, but the F-22A Raptor program was capped at 187 aircraft by US Defence Secretary Robert Gates, President Obama and the United States Senate, all the way back in 2009. The last F-22 airframes are in production, due to roll off in early 2012 and that will be it. All the SME's that produce all the little parts that go together to make an F-22A are or have already moved on to other projects.

There are no more funds and no more F-22A airplanes.

You will have to learn to play with what you've got...

As you missed the announcement clearly, here it is summarised:

The F-22: Senate Votes to End Production - TIME
 

AegisFC

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
It is too late. You may have missed it, but the F-22A Raptor program was capped at 187 aircraft by US Defence Secretary Robert Gates, President Obama and the United States Senate, all the way back in 2009. The last F-22 airframes are in production, due to roll off in early 2012 and that will be it. All the SME's that produce all the little parts that go together to make an F-22A are or have already moved on to other projects.

There are no more funds and no more F-22A airplanes.

You will have to learn to play with what you've got...

As you missed the announcement clearly, here it is summarised:

The F-22: Senate Votes to End Production - TIME
The cap originated under the W. Bush administration. Obama just choose to continue on with the previously planned numbers.
 

Sea Toby

New Member
The F-15 remains a beautifull and formidable opponent to most anything except the F-22, F-35, possibly pak-fa. In my personal opinion the F-22 is far superior to anything even remotely operational, and having observed it first hand at Oskosh and on the tube even given its cost and current O-2 system concerns, it seems that as the F-35s expense and shortcomings are rapidly increasing it should remind us that a bird in hand is worth two in the bush. Given the Russian and Chinese posturing and increasing beligerance, only the seriouly nieve believe that a UAV is the most effective deterant against future communist aggression. I mean that with all due respect to the Russian and Chinese people, whom I hold in very high regard. Reopen the Raptor line before its to late, really!
I am sure if you ever saw a Lightning II in flight, and her cockpit at an air show, you would be singing its praises too. I get goose bumps every time a Lightning II takes off and land as I drive under them in Fort Worth, TX. There is a reason why two different US governments from two different political parties killed Raptor production.
 
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