Boeing Unveils New Stealthy F-15

Haavarla

Active Member
Yep it seems based on lower cost, Korea is preferring the uber-F-15 over the F-35 or Eurofighter Typhoon.

Given the demonstrated capability and operational record of the F-15, it says a lot for the F-35 (and Typhoon for that matter) that the Korean Air Force prefers the F-35 to it, but the bureaucrats won't let them buy it on a cost basis...
With the aviable funding set for this tender, i remains to be seen just how "silent" this F-15SE or should i say F-15K will be.
It looks like SK will fund and produce the new CFT alltogether. New FBW is being funded by other customers, But other than this, what about intakes, RAM coating and RAM panels. Cockpit section(glass) and Engine Nozzles.

There seems to be a whish list of proposed goodies for the original SE version that no one are willing to rais funding for at this stage..
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
With the aviable funding set for this tender, i remains to be seen just how "silent" this F-15SE or should i say F-15K will be.
It looks like SK will fund and produce the new CFT alltogether. New FBW is being funded by other customers, But other than this, what about intakes, RAM coating and RAM panels. Cockpit section(glass) and Engine Nozzles.

There seems to be a whish list of proposed goodies for the original SE version that no one are willing to rais funding for at this stage..
The danger is looking at the platform in isolation - its also about the systems issues (eg Sth Korea and their AWACs combination with enhanced F15's is different from unenhanced F15's)

ditto for RAAF and Growlers coupled with Wedgetails as opposed to Shornets and Growlers

also, the common mistake is to generate a wish list of what individual elements may be attended to and thinking that working on all of them is a requirement to increasing survivability in complex space.

platforms are enhanced against their likely operational construct, not against a entire flight profile.
 

the concerned

Active Member
f-15 silent eagle

Hi I'm just trying to find out some information. What I'm trying to find out is whether it would be possible to fit the f-18 growler jamming pod into the space that the proposed conformal weapons pods are on the f-15se silent eagle. I don't actually mean just put the pod in there but transfer all the equipment internally.
 

StobieWan

Super Moderator
Staff member
Hi I'm just trying to find out some information. What I'm trying to find out is whether it would be possible to fit the f-18 growler jamming pod into the space that the proposed conformal weapons pods are on the f-15se silent eagle. I don't actually mean just put the pod in there but transfer all the equipment internally.
Wouldn't think so - the bays are pretty small, about the right size for an AMRAAM and that's about it. You'd also have to arrange to power the kit - and if you look at the Growler pods, they have wind turbine generators built in.


http://www.defense-update.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/silenteagle_cft-e1278836072935.jpg
 

King Wally

Active Member
Hi I'm just trying to find out some information. What I'm trying to find out is whether it would be possible to fit the f-18 growler jamming pod into the space that the proposed conformal weapons pods are on the f-15se silent eagle. I don't actually mean just put the pod in there but transfer all the equipment internally.
Not sure what your putting together on your side (perhaps your working on Options B, C, D etc) but if I were looking for a LO / 5th gen EW platform to inevitably replace the Growler I'd be definitely aiming for a modified F-35C as my starting base.

Then again you may actually agree, perhaps your thinking of what a possible alternative could be, good luck anyway!
 

the concerned

Active Member
No I'm not looking to replace the f-18 growler. I was just looking as to whether it was possible to fit a enhanced ew capability within the silent eagle. It maybe not as capable on a 1v1 basis but if you had a flight of 4 aircraft and using datalink could they provide a extra resource. Maybe that could be an extra selling point to people looking to replace f-15c's. You could maybe have the usual 2 sidewinder and amraam on wing stations then have alternate harm/amraam on fuselage stations.
 

StobieWan

Super Moderator
Staff member
Like I say, I don't think it's a goer - not internally - you could put the jamming pods on the wings but generating the power, cooling the electronics, it's not happening in those bays.
 

StobieWan

Super Moderator
Staff member
More an educated guess than any practical knowledge, but you can see where I'm going in terms of power provision and cooling - the physics doesn't seem to lend itself to the thing working out.

There are conformal tanks that attach -- possibly someone might be able to get the jamming gear into that as by definition, there's a lot more volume involved in that space, but again, how to generate the power required by the kit?
 

My2Cents

Active Member
Like I say, I don't think it's a goer - not internally - you could put the jamming pods on the wings but generating the power, cooling the electronics, it's not happening in those bays.
Why not run a duct through with the fan in it, it would probably even boost the efficiency. Probably need a couple curves so radar can't see the fan. The duct could also provide cooling air.
 

colay

New Member
If you put jammers in CFTs, wouldn't the fuselage block a significant portion of the transmissions?
 

StobieWan

Super Moderator
Staff member
If you put jammers in CFTs, wouldn't the fuselage block a significant portion of the transmissions?
No more so than if they were fitted in bays - neither are great places to park the kit. The CFT space at least has a large chunk of real estate on the outer skin of the aircraft so may be more feasible.

I'd be tempted to just hang the usual stuff off the wing pylons and have done with it - there's something slightly perverse about attempting signature reductions on a jamming platform and the engineering effort to get that kit inside of the CFT's would be interesting.
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
I'd be tempted to just hang the usual stuff off the wing pylons and have done with it - there's something slightly perverse about attempting signature reductions on a jamming platform and the engineering effort to get that kit inside of the CFT's would be interesting.
That's what I thought as well, what is the point of hiding a jammer. The USN will have Growlers working along side F-35Cs so why can't the USAF have Growlers working along side F-15s and F-35As and save a whole lot of money?
 

the concerned

Active Member
The idea behind it is that most countries couldn't afford a dedicated defence suppression platform, just the same as buying a pure air to air fighter so you have to look at areas that could be joined. Also doesn't the f-16 have a enhanced ew suite in its enlarged dorsal spine so internal technology must already exist, and what about the ef-111 raven. As I suggested don't look at 1 aircraft alone but within a strike package you always have a front fighter sweep so within that flight it would be a benefit to have a group of aircraft that could suppress air/ground radar defences aswell. Also this is just a theory I'm certainly no expert.
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
The USN will have Growlers working along side F-35Cs so why can't the USAF have Growlers working along side F-15s and F-35As and save a whole lot of money?

They do, it was agreed upon approx 4 years ago when the USAF became concerned about USN losing Prowler capability
 

colay

New Member
They do, it was agreed upon approx 4 years ago when the USAF became concerned about USN losing Prowler capability
I do recall reading several years back that the Navy had committed a squadron of Growlers to service USAF needs for EW capability.
 

SpudmanWP

The Bunker Group
The F-15's original FastPack idea envisioned a lot more than just fuel, to include recon and ECM.

[ame]http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o279/Julhelm/FAST-packs.jpg[/ame]
 

OPSSG

Super Moderator
Staff member
Fly like an Eagle — Part 1

I was just looking as to whether it was possible to fit a enhanced ew capability within the silent eagle. It maybe not as capable on a 1v1 basis but if you had a flight of 4 aircraft and using datalink could they provide a extra resource.
1. Sorry for the 7 year wait to reply to this (as it took a long time for this info to become open source). The Koreans and Singaporeans had some enhanced EW capability installed internally in their Eagles — whose capability in similar form is being replicated by new Eagle buyers, like the F-15EX and the F-15QA.

2. The F-15QA has Raytheon’s APG-63(V)3 AESA radar, Lockheed Martin AAS-42 Tiger Eyes infrared search and track system, a Joint Helmet-Mounted Cueing Systems for both the pilot and WSO (as the fighter has twin seats), and the new more powerful General Electric F110-129 engine, a redesigned internal wing structure, and two additional wing hardpoints that allow it to carry up to 16 AIM-120 AMRAAM air-to-air missiles. The QEAF is scheduled to start receiving the first of 48 these F-15QAs in June 2021.

3. But the external mold-line of these advanced variants have not changed since the F-15SG (with sensors just at the cockpit and at the tail) — with the addition of the correct sensor pod, is used by Singapore in a maritime strike role. “Singapore is doing very innovative things with their F-15s, notably in evolving the capabilities of the aircraft to contribute to maritime defense and security. We are looking very carefully at their innovations and can leverage their approach and thinking as well,” Gen. Herbert J. "Hawk" Carlisle said. “This will certainly grow as we introduce the fleet of F-35s in the Pacific where cross national collaboration is built in.”

4. The USAF having looked at these improvements, have implemented a program to enhance the EW capability of their fleet (which will remain in service in the 2040s and beyond). The Eagle Passive/Active Warning Survivability System, (EPAWSS), is a full electronic warfare overhaul for the Strike Eagle. Ultimately, it’s planned that 217 production F-15Es will receive EPAWSS, plus the new-build F-15EX fleet.

5. The F-15E’s EPAWSS was one of the “prioritized tests” conducted during a major exercise called Large Force Test Event (LFTE) 20.03. LFTE 20.03 was designed to validate tactics in a contested environment, refine electronic attack tactics using new capabilities, and optimize large force interoperability between fighters and standoff electronic attack platforms. “Prioritized test” status was given to portions of the event that focused on EPAWSS.

6. EPAWSS is not only physically smaller than previous systems, but it can also be rapidly and more easily updated to add new capabilities to keep abreast of developing threats. It’s also promised to be less maintenance-heavy and more reliable than legacy equipment, bringing down costs. Designed to sample the electromagnetic spectrum, identify threats, prioritize, and allocate jamming resources against them, EPAWSS is described by BAE, as follows:

“Providing both offensive and defensive electronic warfare options for the pilot and aircraft, EPAWSS offers fully integrated radar warning, geolocation, situational awareness, and self-protection solutions to detect and defeat surface and airborne threats in signal-dense contested and highly contested environments. Equipped with advanced electronic countermeasures, it enables deeper penetration against modern integrated air defense systems, providing rapid response capabilities to protect the aircrew.”​
Maybe that could be an extra selling point to people looking to replace f-15c's. You could maybe have the usual 2 sidewinder and amraam on wing stations then have alternate harm/amraam on fuselage stations.
7. Boeing has designed a new wing for Qatar’s F-15QA that retains the same aerodynamic profile but internally it has been strengthen using new manufacturing techniques that Boeing developed over the last few years.

8. The F-15EX comes with nearly all the bells and whistles Eagle drivers have ever wished for: fly-by-wire flight controls, two new weapon stations, a new electronic warfare suite, advanced radar, a hyper-fast computer, conformal fuel tanks, and a strengthened structure. But many of these improvements have been paid for by Saudi Arabia and Qatar have collectively spent about $5 billion developing their own versions of the F-15.

9. The USAF budget includes US$1.8 billion to buy eight F-15’s in 2020; and a total of US$7.9 billion to purchase a total of 80. And no, the F-15EX is not a repackaging of the semi-stealthy F-15 Silent Eagle concept that Boeing floated nearly a decade ago. The F-15X features no low-observable enhancements of any kind. Based on publicly available US budget figures, the F-15EX costs $80.3 million per fighter, including the cost of its twin engines. Thanks to fly-by-wire control, 2 new weapons stations, coupled with AMBER and further investments, Boeing has given the F-15EX the ability to carry up to 22 missiles or bombs.
 
Last edited:

CheeZe

Active Member
The F-15EX comes with nearly all the bells and whistles Eagle drivers have ever wished for: fly-by-wire flight controls, two new weapon stations, a new electronic warfare suite, advanced radar, a hyper-fast computer, conformal fuel tanks, and a strengthened structure. But many of these improvements have been paid for by Saudi Arabia and Qatar have collectively spent about $5 billion developing their own versions of the F-15.
Can older F-15E models be upgraded/updated to the EX standard or must it be purchased brand new? If the former, I can imagine a number of customers who have F-15E models may wish to add this to their wishlist rather than the F-35 for budgetary reasons.
 

OPSSG

Super Moderator
Staff member
Fly like an Eagle — Part 2

Can older F-15E models be upgraded/updated to the EX standard or must it be purchased brand new?
10. Yes, it can be done.
  • The Japanese are rebuilding 98 of their F-15Js — which are single seaters — knowing that not all old aircraft (esp. those with high flight hours) are suitable to be rebuilt.
  • Some of the USAF's F-15Es are now in line to get replacement wings taken from Saudi Arabian F-15S aircraft. The first eight F-15S wing sets arrived at Robins Air Force Base in Georgia in Aug 2020, where the service subsequently began refurbishing them for installation on its F-15Es; with plans to buy another 42 "A-Condition" wing sets from the Saudis.
If the former, I can imagine a number of customers who have F-15E models may wish to add this to their wishlist rather than the F-35 for budgetary reasons.
11. Check out the USAF Congressional testimony on why they chose to buy the F-15EX (instead of paying $10 million or so for wing and longeron replacements for their F-15Cs).

12. Existing non-fly by wire F-15Es would also need more cooling and power and a ton of other upgrades to become a F-15EX. The USAF has a plan to upgrade some aspects of the F-15Es but not one as extensive as to rebuild them into the F-15EX.
 
Last edited:

Terran

Well-Known Member
The F15SE is dead. The new F15 blocks that have been built are improved base line F15E with substantial internal improvements yet lack the copious amount of RAM and shaping that would have been on the SE. basically the SE was promised as a alternative to a stealth aircraft but only would have provided a fighter with a RCS on par with Super Hornet.
 
Top