Boeing Unveils New Stealthy F-15

Haavarla

Active Member
This may be too conspiratorial, but I have seen it suggested that the Obama administration is not that fond of Lockheed (with its ties to Texas) relative to Boeing (in the liberal west). I realize the F35 is moving ahead for Lockheed, but perhaps Boeing and the F15SE or another project could do better under this administration?
That would be streching it..:)

But i'm courious about the increase of fuel in the F-15(SE) with the conformal fuel tanks.

And for that matter the F-35 with its big internal fuel capasity.

Seems to me somebody have taken elements from the Su-27 consept.
The fact that the Su-27 carreing a lot of fuel internaly are somehow beeing adopted in the west over the recent years.

More internal fuel storage = Bigger airframe = More RCS

Now feel free to bash this post:rolleyes:



Thanks
 
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Scott

Photographer/Contributor
Verified Defense Pro

Haavarla

Active Member

Nice pics Scott:)

Those carnards vings seems a bit out of place here, maybe it is the size compaire to the euro-carnards and possible largere than the Su30MKI carnards wings too.

But nevertheless innteresting pics.

Does this prototype/test aircraft fly today?




Thanks
 
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Scott

Photographer/Contributor
Verified Defense Pro
Nice pics Scott:)
Does this prototype/test aircraft fly today?
According to a NASA source, it's final test flight was January 30, 2009. Takeoff photo below taken that day, side view from 2002.

Who knows what testing has been done that hasn't been released to the public.
 

Scott

Photographer/Contributor
Verified Defense Pro
Should also note that NASA has another F-15B that is still undergoing testing.
NASA F-15 Eagle Research Aircraft with Nose Boom - Military Pictures - Air Force Army Navy Missiles Defense
NASA F-15 Eagle Research Aircraft with Nose Boom - Military Pictures - Air Force Army Navy Missiles Defense

Both F-15B models are/were testbed platforms, not prototypes. As alluded to earlier, who knows what additional testing & development efforts USAF, Boeing and possibly other countries with inventory, such as Japan or Israel, may be doing on F-15.
 
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Scott

Photographer/Contributor
Verified Defense Pro
A few more details on the NASA F-15 test bed with canards and thrust vectoring, that flew it's final mission in January.

Built in 1973 by McDonnell Douglas as the first two-seat TF-15, the canard-equipped aircraft has been flown in several significant research and test programs for the U.S. Air Force, McDonnell Douglas and NASA over its almost 36–year lifetime, the last 14 years with NASA, flying 251 test missions.
 

OPSSG

Super Moderator
Staff member
^^^With regards to the above posts, in the past, thrust vectoring engines (TVC) concept was tested and considered for the F-15s but not pursued. This was because of the development of better A2A missiles and HMDs for off-bore sight missile shots, the weight penalty for the F-15 TVC engines was deemed not worthwhile.

As alluded to earlier, who knows what additional testing & development efforts USAF, Boeing and possibly other countries with inventory, such as Japan or Israel, may be doing on F-15.
Scott, more news on the F-15 development efforts by Boeing and possibly other countries... including news of the Raytheon supplied AESA radar upgrade for the F-15E of the USAF. This is actually a very clever marketing maneuver. It's a repackaged front-end from an APG-79 and a back-end derived from the APG-63(V)3. But the US Air Force-supplied designation means Raytheon can boast a "newer" radar than the Northrop Grumman APG-82 flying on the Lockheed Martin F-35.

Bill Sweetman said:
...Boeing quietly announced at Paris last week that it is dedicating more funds to the development of the F-15SE Silent Eagle, with a goal of flying a demonstrator in the third quarter of next year. At the same time the company is saying that it has received strong encouragement from potential customers - led by Saudi Arabia and Korea - to continue working on the F-15SE, which features optional internal weapon bays...

Chadwick is confident that both the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet and the F-15 will still be in production in 2020 - despite Pentagon plans to close out the Super Hornet line. "It will always be less expensive than the F-35," he says, "and it will have the best capability of any multirole fighter out there, for at least another decade."

Chadwick's statements are based in part on Boeing assessments of how much the JSF will eventually cost, and when it will deliver its full planned capability - which as always will trail initial operational capability by some years. "I'm not an expert on the F-35, but when we look at where we are in terms of flight test and at the history of aircraft development ... we know we find things out in flight test." In terms of costs, he notes that "there's an extended period before the economies of scale kick in."
More news of Boeing desperately drumming up sales for the F-15SE....

Graham Warwick said:
Boeing is slipping the first flight-test for the F-15 Silent Eagle prototype about six months to allow time to add inputs over features desired by interested international customers...

“We’ve identified some interest from some potential international co-development partners. These are opportunities we wanted to allow proper time to consider, and where appropriate integrate into the program,” Boeing officials said June 23 when asked to clarify the earlier statement.

The company embarked on the effort as an internal research and development project, but Boeing Military Aircraft President Chris Chadwick said before the air show that he intended to explore potential cooperative development funding options in Paris with other countries.

Israel, which already operates F-15s, has expressed interest. Others likely to be interested include Japan, Singapore, South Korea and Saudi Arabia...

Boeing’s discussions with potential overseas customers seem to have prompted some changes to the program’s focus and to the design of the Silent Eagle’s components. At a press briefing before the show, Brad Jones, F-15 future fighters program manager, said Boeing was conducting trade studies on the conformal bays, including how to actuate the doors and launch the weapons. “We’re looking at electric, hydraulic, pneumatic and a combination,” he said. “It’s a question of how fast you get the missiles out.” Prior to unveiling the project, Boeing’s design focused on using all-electrical actuators.

Potential international customers also have expressed interest in what other payloads — a side-looking radar or broadband electronic jammer, for example — could be suitable for carriage in the conformal fuel tank bay.

Jones said in March that Boeing was open to co-production of the conformal fuel tanks, which would carry weapons internally, with customer nations. Israel, for example, already produces conformal fuel tanks in its 10 configuration. A U.S. 3 tank configuration, made by Boeing and developed specifically for the F-15C/D models, is eyed for the flight-tests of the Silent Eagle.
Cheers :D
 
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OPSSG

Super Moderator
Staff member
DT News said:
Sept 17 - The Boeing F-15E Radar Modernization Program (RMP) recently received the designation of AN/APG-82(v)1 from the U.S. Air Force. The addition of the Raytheon-built APG-82 radar will incorporate Active Electronically Scanned Array Radar (AESA) technology into the F-15E strike fighter, increasing radar reliability by almost 20 times as it also improves maintainability, sustainability and performance, and reduces support costs...

Other RMP modifications include the addition of Raytheon's new Identification Friend or Foe (IFF) Electronically Scanned Array antenna, which was developed for the F-15C APG-63(v)3 radar system, as well as new Radio Frequency Tunable Filters (RFTF) and an improved Environmental Cooling System (ECS).

The RFTF will enable the radar and the aircraft's Electronic Warfare System to function at the same time, minimizing degradation to either system. The ECS will provide up to an additional 250 percent liquid cooling capacity, which is required for incorporation of the APG-82 radar...
IMO, the US vs rest of the world gap in AESA technology development grows, as more details are released. Beyond the F-15E upgrades, I presume that potential F-15SE customers will be interested in the capabilities of the AN/APG-82(v)1.
 
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Haavarla

Active Member
IMO, the US vs rest of the world gap in AESA technology development grows, as more details are released. Beyond the F-15E upgrades, I presume that potential F-15SE customers will be interested in the capabilities of the AN/APG-82(v)1.
How will this new AN/APG-82(v)1 fare with the US ToT or High tec export restrictions?



Thanks
 

OPSSG

Super Moderator
Staff member
How will this new AN/APG-82(v)1 fare with the US ToT or High tec export restrictions?
Maybe our US members can better answer this question. I would think that Boeing will lobby hard for it. Each Silent Eagle sale is worth about US$100m in revenue and countries don't just buy 1 more plane, they buy more squadrons.
 

Haavarla

Active Member
Maybe our US members can better answer this question. I would think that Boeing will lobby hard for it. Each Silent Eagle sale is worth about US$100m in revenue and countries don't just buy 1 more plane, they buy more squadrons.

Yeah well, if it don't work out i guess they throw in a couple of letters .
Change the Radar designation to an export model and remove some of the components or software modes etc etc..



Thanks
 
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OPSSG

Super Moderator
Staff member
Previously known as the APG-63(v)4. It's basically the back end of the APG-79 & the front end of the APG-63(v)3.
@swerve, thanks, for the comments (at least we are keeping this not very active thread limping along).

Singapore's F-16s have a secondary maritime strike role and I'm pretty sure the F-15SG will have the same secondary role too. That being the case, IMO, the RSAF will be keen, at some point, to upgrade to the AN/APG-82(v)1.

The serious upgrade in cooling capacity may be indicative of some changes under-the-hood beyond just the switching of model numbers as a marketing exercise alone.

@Haavarla, your comment is very funny and cynical at the same time. :)
 
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Haavarla

Active Member
A side question.
Some people downplay the CFT on the SE.
But lately i've notice an increase of F-22A with droptanks stuck under the wing pylons in pics and vids out there.

Aren't there some wing pylons conecting these droptanks?
Why are the F-22 doing exercises with droptanks, if they not gonna use them in combat?

Is it strictly to increase loiter time and decrease air-refueling cost in exercises?
I don't see why they should drop the fueltanks on training mission.. but then again, the RCS goes up..


Thanks
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
A side question.
Some people downplay the CFT on the SE.
But lately i've notice an increase of F-22A with droptanks stuck under the wing pylons in pics and vids out there.

Aren't there some wing pylons conecting these droptanks?
Why are the F-22 doing exercises with droptanks, if they not gonna use them in combat?

Is it strictly to increase loiter time and decrease air-refueling cost in exercises?
I don't see why they should drop the fueltanks on training mission.. but then again, the RCS goes up..


Thanks
LO, in real terms is D0-D+3 (very theoretical to get the analogy across)

After that, the need for LO reduces because they don't need to maintain LO

after D+3 the rest of the systems in theatre would have neutralised, decapitated, destroyed or denuded the red forces sensor capability and blue air would be dominationg the battlespace.

LO doesn't need to be maintained after D+3
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Yeah well, if it don't work out i guess they throw in a couple of letters .
Change the Radar designation to an export model and remove some of the components or software modes etc etc..



Thanks
???? The US has AESA systems in place developed by multiple companies. Within those companies they've developed iterations as well.

AESA by rote is a spiral development. Those that have had software changes and improvements haven't been released as "new: versions. (It's why the US has "Block" designations)

They don't release delimited systems and change their designation as a marketing gimmick.


Bottom line is that no other country has a competitive history and family of AESA. That will upset some, but its life.
 

Scott

Photographer/Contributor
Verified Defense Pro
Got up close look at NASA F-15B Active last week. That's a big canard
 

Crusader2000

Banned Member
A side question.
Some people downplay the CFT on the SE.
But lately i've notice an increase of F-22A with droptanks stuck under the wing pylons in pics and vids out there.

Aren't there some wing pylons conecting these droptanks?
Why are the F-22 doing exercises with droptanks, if they not gonna use them in combat?

Is it strictly to increase loiter time and decrease air-refueling cost in exercises?
I don't see why they should drop the fueltanks on training mission.. but then again, the RCS goes up..


Thanks
The F-22's are likely carrying drop tanks. So, some don't get a true picture of there RCS......;)
 
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