War Against ISIS

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Agreed. I just added the point as to who was saying it and what their basis was. I think doing so keeps things a little clearer, I wasnt citing the media as gospel. Point taken though.
No probs, I'm getting my info mostly off Al Jazeera English at the moment. I can get their broadcast live. I can't get the BBC and I find US media somewhat lacking in clarity. I don't even go near RT from Russia.

Something maybe unrelated, part of Gatwick airport in London has just been evacuated because of a suspect package being found. Could be a false alarm (hopefully).
 

wittmanace

Active Member
No probs, I'm getting my info mostly off Al Jazeera English at the moment. I can get their broadcast live. I can't get the BBC and I find US media somewhat lacking in clarity. I don't even go near RT from Russia.

Something maybe unrelated, part of Gatwick airport in London has just been evacuated because of a suspect package being found. Could be a false alarm (hopefully).
Reports are that it is gatwick north. Evacuated, suspect package thrown by from a man acting erratically. EOD went to deal with the package/item. Official channels have basically said this now.

Not confirmed but stated in a few places:
Several have tweeted that he has arrested by armed police, and had a gun in a bag. I know the gatwick evacuation bit is correct, but the gun and bag part is so far bits and bobs of info from various sources so not anything confirmed.
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
The Paris attacks are being attributed to ISIS. I expect this to spur even more aggressive Coalition action on the battlefield. Awkward timing though for Canada who would be the odd man out as it will be withdrawing from a combat posture.

Indeed and no doubt junior will get an earful from NATO members at the G20.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
More sat imagery (yesterday) near Hmeymim airbase in Syria.

- S-300? near Hmeymim AB

Maybe not the same location, but this seems to an established SAM unit. Seems to be the same TEL's & radar equipment
That looks like an incomplete S-300 unit. Instead of 8 or 12 TELs, I see two, but that (if the photos are from where he says they are) would be confirmation of S-300/400 deployment.
 

GermanHerman

Active Member
That looks like an incomplete S-300 unit. Instead of 8 or 12 TELs, I see two, but that (if the photos are from where he says they are) would be confirmation of S-300/400 deployment.
Agreed, not a complete unit - but then they wouldn't/shouldn't need a full AD Rgt (or Btln?) at Hmeymim AB one would think, based on the current threat levels within the AO. Further, if the photos are genuine, then I'm sure there are other detachments at Latakita and other Russian-used AB's.

Interested in the radar's. It's definitely a 40V6M/D mobile mast. With what I think is the 67N6 Gamma (AESA) radar, as you mentioned previously.

If not, could it be another Russian acquisition-type radar? Maybe the 96L6? Or possibly even older versions i.e 76N6 (which I believe Syria may have in inventory)?

Question - Are the older 30N6 (Engagement) radars still in use by Russian forces?

Cheers
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
The Klurdish Peshmerga have taken Sinjar in the last 24 hours with the help of coalition air strikes. Daesh appears to have slipped away but there is very little of the town left undamaged. In the last few hours the Kurds have uncovered a mass grave in the town. Sinjar sits aside the main Daesh supply line between Al Raqqa and Mosul. Normally this would create difficulties for a conventional force, so it will be interesting to see how much impact this will have on Daeshs combat ability.
 
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Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
The Klurdish Peshmerga have taken Sinjar in the last 24 hours with the help of coalition air strikes. Daesh appears to have slipped away but there is very little of the town left undamaged. In the last few hours the Kurds have uncovered a mass grave in the town. Sinjar sits aside the main Daesh supply line between Al Raqqa and Mosul. Normally this would create difficulties for a conventional force, so it will be interesting to see how much impact this will have on Daeshs combat ability.
They're probably feeling the pressure on all fronts. Iraqis are pushing, the SAA is pushing, and now the Kurds too. Even a structure like ISIS is still dependent on manpower. Especially when they're tied down and forced to stand and fight to hold ground.
 

barney41

Member
Will France make the case for NATO boots on the ground, to go aggressively after the ISIL home base? The World is playing defense vs a ruthless foe that is metastasizing and respects no boundaries. Intelligence agencies can only do so much, the foe is adapting and getting smarter and border controls are porous and ineffective. Time to go on the offensive?
 

Todjaeger

Potstirrer
Will France make the case for NATO boots on the ground, to go aggressively after the ISIL home base? The World is playing defense vs a ruthless foe that is metastasizing and respects no boundaries. Intelligence agencies can only do so much, the foe is adapting and getting smarter and border controls are porous and ineffective. Time to go on the offensive?
Part of the reason this issue is so difficult, is that in a number of situations a military response is largely ineffective. The 'conventional' Daesh forces can be engaged in a military response. The network of (potential) terror supporters and attackers which would likely have been involved in the Paris attacks, not so much.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Part of the reason this issue is so difficult, is that in a number of situations a military response is largely ineffective. The 'conventional' Daesh forces can be engaged in a military response. The network of (potential) terror supporters and attackers which would likely have been involved in the Paris attacks, not so much.
That's the problem facing all govts. The unconventional Daesh forces are hidden within the general population and ferreting (excuse the pun) them out is highly resource intensive. Even then if you get a lead and find a group you are always unsure whether or not you have the whole rats nest because of the insurgents cell based operating procedure. They are like a Hydra - chop one head off and another pops up somewhere else. You have to kill the whole beast, which in Daesh's case is the whole organisation.
 

barney41

Member
I agree, need to excise the main tumor and the new growths, easier said than done but necessary. Defeating ISIS on the battlefield in Syria and Iraq is essential and the longer it takes, the more it infects and inspires terror attacks abroad. Boots on the ground will be messy but it will be the most direct and quickest way to destroy the Caliphate dream. It will leave a big mess in it's wake that will generate new problems to be dealt with. No easy answers but the status quo is a losing proposition IMO.
 

Todjaeger

Potstirrer
I agree, need to excise the main tumor and the new growths, easier said than done but necessary. Defeating ISIS on the battlefield in Syria and Iraq is essential and the longer it takes, the more it infects and inspires terror attacks abroad. Boots on the ground will be messy but it will be the most direct and quickest way to destroy the Caliphate dream. It will leave a big mess in it's wake that will generate new problems to be dealt with. No easy answers but the status quo is a losing proposition IMO.
One of the potential issues with defeating them completely on the battlefield though, is that they could morph into a force which does not rely upon any particular area for personnel or funding.

Absent the need to hold ground, resources could be devoted instead to reaching out to, and radicalizing, people who could be described as "locals". People who could move through their respective national societies without automatically causing others to look at them and know something is out of place.

I would not be at all surprised if, once the investigations are completed, it turns out that the actual attackers in France were either French citizens, or permanent residents. Given the potential spread of tactics and techniques via the internet (including via sites like DT...) as well as just for recruitment and radicalization of followers, there might not be a direct, personal link between some attackers and Daesh, apart from IP traffic.
 

Ranger25

Active Member
Staff member
I agree, need to excise the main tumor and the new growths, easier said than done but necessary. Defeating ISIS on the battlefield in Syria and Iraq is essential and the longer it takes, the more it infects and inspires terror attacks abroad. Boots on the ground will be messy but it will be the most direct and quickest way to destroy the Caliphate dream. It will leave a big mess in it's wake that will generate new problems to be dealt with. No easy answers but the status quo is a losing proposition IMO.
Agreed it will take Western Boots on the ground. I'd estimate 2 BCTs (one heavy, one light) plus a RGR BTN and a SEAL team.

Quds will need to transit home prior.

IMO I don't see ISIS able to withstand a professional opponent.

The hard part will indeed be the follow through. Those two brigade will need to remains in Iraqi for the unforeseen future for stability and training operations.
 

barney41

Member
One of the potential issues with defeating them completely on the battlefield though, is that they could morph into a force which does not rely upon any particular area for personnel or funding.

Absent the need to hold ground, resources could be devoted instead to reaching out to, and radicalizing, people who could be described as "locals". People who could move through their respective national societies without automatically causing others to look at them and know something is out of place.

I would not be at all surprised if, once the investigations are completed, it turns out that the actual attackers in France were either French citizens, or permanent residents. Given the potential spread of tactics and techniques via the internet (including via sites like DT...) as well as just for recruitment and radicalization of followers, there might not be a direct, personal link between some attackers and Daesh, apart from IP traffic.
Based on CNN reporting, at least one of the attackers was a recently documented "refugee" who arrived via Greece while another has been confirmed to be a French citizen while foreign passports at the Soccer stadium belonged to Middle Eastern citizens. So it's clear that ISIS enjoys diverse support from within and without. Start by destroying the idea of a Caliphate and the support base. That can only be a big plus strategically and tactically and psychologically. It's a logical place to start.


I don't think it's a question of IF similar attacks are repeated, only WHEN. I think the time for half-measures is over. If governments don't make the hard decision, an emboleened ISIS will ony be too willing to repeat and keep repeating the recent atrocities, perhaps even on a larger scale until the citizenry demand extreme measures. Government procrastination is just going to delay the inevitable hard decision and cost more lives IMO.
 

the concerned

Active Member
What annoys me is that they say the authorities knew one of these attackers who came from paris and was someone with well known extremist views. Now i'm sorry but surely public safety has to come before civil/human rights bs these people need to disappear. Plus if the west is serious about this do they have the moral bottle to punish the countries who finance these terrorists.
 

barney41

Member
What annoys me is that they say the authorities knew one of these attackers who came from paris and was someone with well known extremist views. Now i'm sorry but surely public safety has to come before civil/human rights bs these people need to disappear. Plus if the west is serious about this do they have the moral bottle to punish the countries who finance these terrorists.
It's a numbers game. You need manpower to accumulate evidence to establish a case against a suspect. What's worrisome ahout the Paris attacks is that authorities were apparently blindsided. Looks like the terrorists may have learned to evade security measures.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...60c498-1c4d-11e5-bed8-1093ee58dad0_story.html

"We probably have 3,000 to 5,000 people in France who should be under surveillance,” said Jean-Charles Brisard, a counterterrorism expert based in Paris. “And we’ve got 3,000 people, a few more, doing that job. It’s just not possible to watch everyone
 
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