US Navy News and updates

Meriv90

Active Member
We will see in 3 years.
The thing is capability from the shipbuilder. I live in Venice, and from my window I see the shipyards specially because the cruisers are building high.
I'm graduating in economics not engineering so i could be writings some very big stupid things but here is what i wrote my thesis about.

On the complexity:


This is China CSSC with the help of Fincantieri and Carnival(as we promised Australia we would have moved some production over there if we got the SEA5000)

Vs

Mitsubishi


The company since 2011 lost 240 billion yen ($2.31 billion) constructing two large passenger vessels ordered by a U.S. customer.
And if not wrong 2 years delay on the shipyards.

It is very interesting seeing the time lapse.


And I don't think that the Japanese don't have the skills, just not the whole chain of added value, or complexity of the cruiser one, because in shipbuilding the level of turnout between competitors and different shipyards is around 10-15% of the total value. Plus the vertical and horizontal integration is very very high.

1684568466111.png

You can see an example of knowledge spill-over in another very successful Italian class of ships that isn't from Fincantieri but from Intermarine. The Lerici class.

When we used fiberglass to build the hulk for our minesweepers, with the USN ended up buying the class.


And that is no coincidence, who else uses fiberglass? The recreational boating shipbuilders.

1684568682073.png
This is our production value in the recreational super-yacht sector for example.
1684568726701.png

What I want to say, or better, what i wrote in my thesis on cluster theory, is that there are innovation spill-overs between civilian and military sector but in the case of UK(thus BAE) the 6£ bln that they spend in the nuclear deterrence, the spill-overs don't end in the conventional shipbuilding, both military and civilian but in the energy sector thus we can see how RR has an amazing (IMHO and i wish we adopt it as Italians) project with SMR reactors.


Meanwhile for us Italians and Germans that the Nuclear could never have been an option (since we lost the WW2) not only it didn't catch up as civilian energy source (probably because we lacked all the weight that France and Uk had in the nuclear deterence value chain) but it allows us a saving and a redirection of those funds towards others sectors, in consequence you can see the difference between the PPA and its counterparts in the latest Naval News video.


Its a matter of how often you get exposed to complexity, and where innovation comes from.
1684569457445.png

Just my opinion, high chance it is biased, the carrier in the graph probably is the CDG.

LCS was a product before we adquired Marine Marinette.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
We will see in 3 years.
The thing is capability from the shipbuilder. I live in Venice, and from my window I see the shipyards specially because the cruisers are building high.
I'm graduating in economics not engineering so i could be writings some very big stupid things but here is what i wrote my thesis about.

On the complexity:


This is China CSSC with the help of Fincantieri and Carnival(as we promised Australia we would have moved some production over there if we got the SEA5000)

Vs

Mitsubishi




And if not wrong 2 years delay on the shipyards.

It is very interesting seeing the time lapse.


And I don't think that the Japanese don't have the skills, just not the whole chain of added value, or complexity of the cruiser one, because in shipbuilding the level of turnout between competitors and different shipyards is around 10-15% of the total value. Plus the vertical and horizontal integration is very very high.

View attachment 50512

You can see an example of knowledge spill-over in another very successful Italian class of ships that isn't from Fincantieri but from Intermarine. The Lerici class.

When we used fiberglass to build the hulk for our minesweepers, with the USN ended up buying the class.


And that is no coincidence, who else uses fiberglass? The recreational boating shipbuilders.

View attachment 50513
This is our production value in the recreational super-yacht sector for example.
View attachment 50514

What I want to say, or better, what i wrote in my thesis on cluster theory, is that there are innovation spill-overs between civilian and military sector but in the case of UK(thus BAE) the 6£ bln that they spend in the nuclear deterrence, the spill-overs don't end in the conventional shipbuilding, both military and civilian but in the energy sector thus we can see how RR has an amazing (IMHO and i wish we adopt it as Italians) project with SMR reactors.


Meanwhile for us Italians and Germans that the Nuclear could never have been an option (since we lost the WW2) not only it didn't catch up as civilian energy source (probably because we lacked all the weight that France and Uk had in the nuclear deterence value chain) but it allows us a saving and a redirection of those funds towards others sectors, in consequence you can see the difference between the PPA and its counterparts in the latest Naval News video.


Its a matter of how often you get exposed to complexity, and where innovation comes from.
View attachment 50515

Just my opinion, high chance it is biased, the carrier in the graph probably is the CDG.

LCS was a product before we adquired Marine Marinette.
Nice post but where are the sources for the imagery? Just like your institution where you are doing your studies, we require referencing / sources.
 

Meriv90

Active Member
All of them have sources except for the Superyacht Italian industry turnout that comes from Nautica in Cifre from September 2022 produced by Confindusitria Nautica.

The table from the Superyacht marketshare is as written in the table from SuperYacht times 2022

SEA Europe is the association of the biggest shipyards in Europe.

And BALance Technology Consulting is a German firm the EU commission uses for some studies.

If someone wants, they are all pubblic access documents i can share all reports.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
This article is about the fate of the Mark 51 155mm/62 (6,1”) AGSs, from which only six exist.
Hopefully they will not be scrapped/destroyed but placed into musea.
You would think that when they designed the ship and its weapon systems, that they would have thought to seriously check the currently available NATO standard 155mm rounds. I suppose that's too logical and easy. The USMC was using the NATO 155mm round at the time.
 

swerve

Super Moderator
IIRC it was designed to do things NATO standard 155mm ammunition couldn't, & couldn't be made to do. The calibre was probably selected just from habit. It might have made more sense to use a different, perhaps bigger, calibre.
 

ASSAIL

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Today is the 54th anniversary of the collision between HMAS Melbourne CVS 21 and USS Frank E Evans DD 754 in which 74 USN sailors lost their lives.
May they RIP
 

Bob53

Well-Known Member
Interesting article suggesting the USN should turn to Sth Korean and Japanese yards to get the drum beat of ships into the water at a faster rate. I thought there might have been an idea to build the hulls OS and then bring them to the US yards for fit out but that’s not there….


extract of headlines in images67DED036-AF2C-437E-9773-5E6C33E4909D.jpeg67DED036-AF2C-437E-9773-5E6C33E4909D.jpeg01D07D54-DD52-4D26-B7BB-178338B6DAA3.jpeg
 

Redlands18

Well-Known Member
Interesting article suggesting the USN should turn to Sth Korean and Japanese yards to get the drum beat of ships into the water at a faster rate. I thought there might have been an idea to build the hulls OS and then bring them to the US yards for fit out but that’s not there….


extract of headlines in imagesView attachment 50555View attachment 50555View attachment 50556
10 U.S. Code § 8679 - Construction of vessels in foreign shipyards: prohibition | U.S. Code | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute (cornell.edu)
The reason they can't do it is in the last paragraph before the Type 055 article, it is currently illegal for US military ships to be built outside the US, it is a law that goes back to the 19th Century.
 

Bob53

Well-Known Member
10 U.S. Code § 8679 - Construction of vessels in foreign shipyards: prohibition | U.S. Code | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute (cornell.edu)
The reason they can't do it is in the last paragraph before the Type 055 article, it is currently illegal for US military ships to be built outside the US, it is a law that goes back to the 19th Century.
Yes I understand that…the article is suggesting it might be time to review that. I guess at one stage the USN would never consider proving Nuclear Sub Tech either.
 

spoz

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Not going to happen. There is still a strong belief in Congress that USN ships should be made in the US - look at the discussion in any recent senate or house hearings, and the results in recent Defence Authorisation Acts. You can ascribe it to pork barrelling or a belief in the need to retain sovereign capability, whichever you choose, but the chances of it being rescinded are near zip.
 

Mark_Evans

Member
Not going to happen. There is still a strong belief in Congress that USN ships should be made in the US - look at the discussion in any recent senate or house hearings, and the results in recent Defence Authorisation Acts. You can ascribe it to pork barrelling or a belief in the need to retain sovereign capability, whichever you choose, but the chances of it being rescinded are near zip.
How would ship maintenance or overhaul be accepted? South Australia has a naval yard that could service submarines and Burke's.
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group

Final chapter of Australia LCS program now coming to close. USN Constellation Frigate program as we know is the acknowledgement on USN side that LCS program can't be used to fill in 'smaller' combatan as Frigate does. This LCS program for better or worse will be interesting case studies along the way on the justification of its existence.
 

76mmGuns

Active Member

Final chapter of Australia LCS program now coming to close. USN Constellation Frigate program as we know is the acknowledgement on USN side that LCS program can't be used to fill in 'smaller' combatan as Frigate does. This LCS program for better or worse will be interesting case studies along the way on the justification of its existence.
I honestly still don't understand how Austal won the contract decades ago, and why it continues to win contracts for ships it's never built before.

If this a way the US is keeping Australia (not Austal) happy?
 

spoz

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Wouldn’t think so; they’re only popular here so far as they create jobs in Australia (and WA in particular) and Austal US doesn’t do that. Imagine either they put in the best value for money offer or they are thereabouts and are in a favoured location with influential members of Congress.
 
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