US Navy News and updates

[SammyC]

And just found this, courtesy of a US based forum, FWIW:

Navy wants new frigate in 2028, says service's acquisition head - Breaking Defense

Navy Secretary John Phelan recently told attendees at a private dinner that the new frigate would be a modified National Security Cutter, sources told Breaking Defense.

breakingdefense.com

I wonder if they will expand/transfer production of the legend class derivitive to Marinette (on the basis this is the design they will authorise). HHI has a lot of work already on their books and Marinette have a massive hole in theirs.

The USN and Coastguard normally buy the rights to the design of a ship, so they should have flexibility to select the construction yard.

 

[koxinga]

Why would the Legend class (or derivatives) now be acceptable when the design was not selected originally for the Constellation class contract?

Your implied assumption is there were flaws, inadequacy that resulted in the Legend design not being selected.

But given how that "winner" turned out, it would question how decisions were made back then, rather than adequacy of design. We simply do not know.

I always had q suspicion that the choice was partly due to desire to spread US shipbuilding contracts around, in this case to Fincantieri Marinette Marine (FMM).

 

[Joe Black]

I wonder if they will expand/transfer production of the legend class derivitive to Marinette (on the basis this is the design they will authorise). HHI has a lot of work already on their books and Marinette have a massive hole in theirs.

The USN and Coastguard normally buy the rights to the design of a ship, so they should have flexibility to select the construction yard.

BTW, Its HII not HHI.
HHI = Korean's Hyundai Heavy Industries,
HII = Huntington Ingalls Industries

 

[OldTex]

The USN acting acquisition executive is being reported as saying that the future frigate will be "in the water 2028". It was emphasized that the new frigate effort will avoid previous design risks by relying on platforms with proven service histories. Focusing on high-confidence U.S. designs, underscoring the USN’s intent to work with domestic shipyards and reduce reliance on foreign-derived systems. The service is also prioritizing production methods that support faster construction schedules and lower operational risk. Details on the new frigate class, including specifications and the lead shipbuilder, have not been formally released. However, it was indicated that the effort will likely draw on mature hull designs and subsystems already in use across the fleet.

All of this could suggest that the NSC-L (Legend class) or one of its derivative designs is the most likely candidate. Especially as the 11th example of the NSC-L was only cancelled this year.

 

[John Fedup]

I see little chance of the Legend class or derivative being any more successful than other failed USN efforts. The F/A XX delay has been blamed on the US industrial base not being capable of supporting two 6th gen fighters (BS IMHO). A better reason would be zero faith in the USN to get the F/A XX right.

 

[StobieWan]

They're snorting crack if they think they'll have a design in the water by 2028 - I don't see any signs of self awareness in that announcement. They're literally making all the same noises about using a proven design etc.

I'd chuck another vote in for the Arrowhead 140 personally, large, flexible, easy to build in modules so the work can be spread around various yards. And you can go from any spec from an OPV to a full fat frigate easily.

 

[spoz]

I see little chance of the Legend class or derivative being any more successful than other failed USN efforts. The F/A XX delay has been blamed on the US industrial base not being capable of supporting two 6th gen fighters (BS IMHO). A better reason would be zero faith in the USN to get the F/A XX right.

The NSC build went pretty well for the Coast Guard after the inevitable (in modern Western shipbuilding) bumbling start. As I noted above, it is entirely possible LLIs are already available at Ingalls; and it is conceivable that some reusable hull sections might exist. While the NSC is not exactly a “hot” line, it is not far off it. And early knowledge of, or thoughts about, using it as the basis of a frigate might be behind the cancellation of Friedman.

 

[76mmGuns]

They're snorting crack if they think they'll have a design in the water by 2028 - I don't see any signs of self awareness in that announcement. They're literally making all the same noises about using a proven design etc.

I'd chuck another vote in for the Arrowhead 140 personally, large, flexible, easy to build in modules so the work can be spread around various yards. And you can go from any spec from an OPV to a full fat frigate easily.

While I agree it would be a good option, I can see it being americanised to death. If nothing else, the US will insist on different guns, which means it will be lesser armed, since it means a 57mm main guns, and 2 x 30mm guns , imho

 

[spoz]

All the announcements have said it will be a US design. The Arrowhead is not that.

 

[koxinga]

Optics/Politics

A foreign design will be seen as repeating the same steps as the Constellation programme, even though the blame for that debacle can be attributed to their own inability to lock down the requirements, even if the design is good.

 

[koxinga]

The NSC build went pretty well for the Coast Guard after the inevitable (in modern Western shipbuilding) bumbling start. As I noted above, it is entirely possible LLIs are already available at Ingalls; and it is conceivable that some reusable hull sections might exist. While the NSC is not exactly a “hot” line, it is not far off it. And early knowledge of, or thoughts about, using it as the basis of a frigate might be behind the cancellation of Friedman.

If they use the existing / ex Friedman, they might well have "something in the water" in 2028, but whether such a design is competitive relative to newer offerings (e.g Mogamis, FDIs, PPA EVO, Type 26/31, Type 54B) going forward to the 2030s is debatable.

A clean sheet design, however will take close to a decade. There are no good choices here.

 

[SammyC]

If they use the existing / ex Friedman, they might well have "something in the water" in 2028, but whether such a design is competitive relative to newer offerings (e.g Mogamis, FDIs, PPA EVO, Type 26/31, Type 54B) going forward to the 2030s is debatable.

A clean sheet design, however will take close to a decade. There are no good choices here.

I'm thinking beggers can't be choosers. A 4923, is perhaps better than anything else they could get in the timeframe. 80% of something is better than 100% of nothing.

It's ironic that the USN, having tried to stuff everything including the kitchen sink into the Constellation, is now likely to be forced to take on a frigate with about a quarter of what they wanted. Even more Ironically, it will probably be enough for what they need.

 

[spoz]

Actually, the T31/54B/FDI/PPA is not that much more advanced, if at all (I don’t really rate the PPA, but that is personal), in most ways - and in any case, nobody is expecting one on one combat between frigates. If the NSC derivative is put into production it will to be as an escort for high value platforms, not as a primary unit in SAGs. For that purpose it will probably be adequate. And it should be able to be delivered relatively quickly.

 

[StobieWan]

If there's a finalised design for the 4923, and they just build it, yup, they could have steel cut and something floated out soon - I suspect 2028 is aspirational and 2030 is nearer the truth but it'd be possible. However, I genuinely think the USN right now is institutionally incapable of executing a build of that type. If they let a contract for the thing with some quite strict terms on change management, maybe.