The Russian-Ukrainian War Thread

Ananda

The Bunker Group
Please stop listening to Putin's rhetoric and please stop taking it as fact and proof intent of NATO, the EU or the USA.
Right everything from the West is the actual truth. There's no western propaganda and west the beacon of democracy and truth. Everything from Russia is just lies and propaganda

Do keep that thinking. Russia is going to falter and fall. NATO will not attack Russia. Remember it is not just what West thinking that's important, but also what Russian thinking. There's two sides in every coins, as there's two sides in everything.

As for defense against Japan, whatever western thinking how ridiculous it is, doesn’t matter. They already beef up their defense in sea of japan. When west and allies beef up their defense, why it is ridiculous when Russian do the same ?
 
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KipPotapych

Active Member
Do you actually believe what you have just written?

The rhetoric of Russia being "cornered" is nonsense, no NATO troops will step foot on Russian territory , no-one in Europe or the USA has any desire or intention to invade Russia.

The idea, often repeated, that NATO or the EU is a threat to Russia (militarily) is a nonsense.

There is a political threat from both, as it should come as no surprise that former Warsaw Pact countries who were invaded more than once by Russia during the cold war when their people tried to break away and love in freedom are very keen in finding protection. The Russian response to this should be through trade and mutual cooperation , but Putin prefers to have puppet vassal states around him and not genuine partners and friends.

I repeat, no-one in Europe or the USA, neither the public nor the politicians wants any sort of war with Russia.

Please stop listening to Putin's rhetoric and please stop taking it as fact and proof intent of NATO, the EU or the USA.

The notion that Russia needs to build up defences against Japan is even more ridiculous.
I believe what he was saying is that Russia is preparing for a war that may yet come in case things “get out of hand” and, for instance, they decide to drop a nuke or two on Ukraine; in which case, the US and NATO had suggested there would be a strong and immediate response. That response is interpreted by many as an attack by NATO on Russia and so on.

I, personally, do not think there would be a response like that in the first place and if there was, the dragon teeth along the beach and the weird looking “bunker” on, supposedly, the shore of the Azov Sea would make any difference anyway.

He also said the defence in the Sea of Japan, not defence against Japan.

Anyway, carry on. I am out for the night.
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group
he was saying is that Russia is preparing for a war that may yet come in case things “get out of hand”
Yes, on this case what matters is not what anyone outside Russia believe. However what Russian regime believe and what they are preparing their nation on to. Anyone especially in the West can say how ridiculous and it is propaganda and lies. However so does the other side can say anything that come from West.

Trust is what matters on finding conflicts solutions, and that's one thing I see already continue evaporate from both sides.
 

Redshift

Active Member
Yes, on this case what matters is not what anyone outside Russia believe. However what Russian regime believe and what they are preparing their nation on to. Anyone especially in the West can say how ridiculous and it is propaganda and lies. However so does the other side can say anything that come from West.

Trust is what matters on finding conflicts solutions, and that's one thing I see already continue evaporate from both sides.
I'm saying it is ridiculous because it is ridiculous, not because I am in the West.

NATO, the EU and the USA are not about to attack Russia.

If Russia uses nukes against Ukraine the whole world will abandon them, maybe even you Ananda will stop defending Putin and putting spin on his actions to justify them?

Out of curiosity how do you think the world should react if Putin nukes a Ukrainian advance on Ukrainian territory?
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group
First of all where do in any of my post I'm defending Putin ? Or Spin his action to justify ? Read again my post. You are seems type of ppl that does want to attack anyone that's not agree on Western thinking on this conflict.

Again I only put what Russian believe and try looking on both side of coins. I already put several times that I'm mostly in the fence on this conflict. However seems some like you like to put those in fences as Pro Russian.

So I'm not going to justifies what I believe in this conflicts to you, as it does not matter. Again you can say what Russian believe it is ridiculous (which is your rights), but so their believe on hostile West toward Russia (as their believes).

Keep your believe as that's your Right, and I do my believe on sitting in the fence as my rights. Incidently other member like Kip already got essences on my post, however instead read what Kip already put abour my post, you keep continue saying I'm pro putin and try to spin on his behalf. I wonder why ?
 
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Redshift

Active Member
Right everything from the West is the actual truth. There's no western propaganda and west the beacon of democracy and truth. Everything from Russia is just lies and propaganda

Do keep that thinking. Russia is going to falter and fall. NATO will not attack Russia. Remember it is not just what West thinking that's important, but also what Russian thinking. There's two sides in every coins, as there's two sides in everything.

As for defense against Japan, whatever western thinking how ridiculous it is, doesn’t matter. They already beef up their defense in sea of japan. When west and allies beef up their defense, why it is ridiculous when Russian do the same ?
What is ridiculous is that Russia fears military intervention inside Russia by NATO, EU or Japan.

I am pretty sure that Putin does not believe that either unless he of course acts first.

This is not propaganda, I am British, I can assure that noone I have ever met or spoken to is interested in waging war on Russia.

If you think that is propaganda I can only assume that you have a different definition of the word to me.
 

Rob c

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Right everything from the West is the actual truth. There's no western propaganda and west the beacon of democracy and truth. Everything from Russia is just lies and propaganda
No politician is ever fully truthful, we have a saying that there are "Lies, damn Lies, then politics in that order". However in the west there is a more semblance of the truth in the political statements than from Russia as a politician from my country who digresses to much from the truth can be dismissed from parliament for having misled parliament. The other point to be mentioned is that our governments do not control the media and while different media sites do have their own agenda's, this does not necessarily reflect the governments position as they are free to express those agenda's.
 

swerve

Super Moderator
Right everything from the West is the actual truth. There's no western propaganda and west the beacon of democracy and truth. Everything from Russia is just lies and propaganda

Do keep that thinking. Russia is going to falter and fall. NATO will not attack Russia. Remember it is not just what West thinking that's important, but also what Russian thinking. There's two sides in every coins, as there's two sides in everything.

As for defense against Japan, whatever western thinking how ridiculous it is, doesn’t matter. They already beef up their defense in sea of japan. When west and allies beef up their defense, why it is ridiculous when Russian do the same ?
When China beefs up its offence, it's rational for Japan to beef up its defence. When Russia invades a neighbour, it's rational for other neighbours to beef up their defences. For Russia to use that as an excuse to beef up their ability to attack is ridiculous - unless Russia is planning to attack.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Ukraine sources claim that today a Russian Su-35 Fighter Jet, a Su-34 Fighter Jet, and 2x Mi-8 Helicopters got shot down in Russia’s Bryansk Region bordering Ukraine.

If true, that would be a huge hit for one day, and it happened inside Russian territory.

Russian sources are corroborating. It appears Ukraine pulled some SAMs up into Chernovtsi region and ambushed a series of Russian aircraft. So far we have an Su-34, two Mi-8s and possibly an Su-35S or Su-30SM, details are still sketchy.


When China beefs up its offence, it's rational for Japan to beef up its defence. When Russia invades a neighbour, it's rational for other neighbours to beef up their defences. For Russia to use that as an excuse to beef up their ability to attack is ridiculous - unless Russia is planning to attack.
To inject a little reality into this situation, Russia has backed itself into a corner and has problems from nearly every quarter At this point Russia doesn't need any "excuses" to beef up anything. Russia will beef up what it can where it can, and that's that. One can complain, but compared to invading Ukraine, any "beefing up" of forces elsewhere is so insignificant as to not be worth arguing about. Considering how lopsided the balance of power is in the sea and air between Japan and Russia, no realistic Russian increases can realistically threaten Japan or even do much to mitigate Japan's ability to wreck the Pacific Fleet or push the VVS back into friendly-SAM covered airspace. Personally I'm of the opinion that from a conventional military standpoint Japan can take as many islands from Russia as it wants. If I was in charge of Russia, any serious conflict with Japan, and I would immediately go nuclear. Nothing else will work.
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group
If I was in charge of Russia, any serious conflict with Japan, and I would immediately go nuclear. Nothing else will work
That's the point. This talk from some media or opinions in West that Putin Russia is only bluffing on nuclear is not taken account when Russia found themselves push in to the corner, they will use everything they got including nuclear. It can be argue that Russia push themselves into the corner, however it doesn't matter. When a regime with nuclear weapons found its situation being push in to the corner, the will try everything too survive. After all that's what make North Korean Kim's build nukes in first place (despite being financially broke).

Question right now is where the red line for Putin Russia that they themselves consider as being push in to the corner.


The other point to be mentioned is that our governments do not control the media and while different media sites do have their own agenda's, this does not necessarily reflect the governments position as they are free to express those agenda's
That's mean everything from the West is not free from disinformation and propaganda. This means for non western especially those in the fences, doesn't mean has to take everything from West as truths.

I have already put in one of much earlier post in this thread that for many of non western, yes Western media is 'somewhat' more dependable then say Russia or Chinese media and sources. However we also see how Western bias from Iraq, Afghanistan, Israel-Palestine, etc. Especially in this war, we can see all the biases from both sides (as Ukraine sides basically Western sides). For that many of us choose to see both sides of the coins, and that doesn't make us Pro Russian, or Pro Putin, or try to spin his opinion. As one from financial markets, I can see even my western colleagues doing same thing as my self done.

Everyone has bias, and for those who sit in fences on this conflict means take everything from both sides as much salt unless already being collaborate with event in the ground. Even Pro Russian telegrams going to admitting if their position being push back or not eventually.

For Russia to use that as an excuse to beef up their ability to attack is ridiculous - unless Russia is planning to attack.
It is not ridiculous as this is just part of development in the situation. Whether Russia attack Ukraine is unprovoked as many in West believe (in which I can see even some Republicans in US don't really believe that in their online pods), doesn't matter. Counter positions of US and Western allies, make them now has to see possibilities on being attacked on every fronts. That's their believes, whatever everyone in West can say that West is not going to attack first, and only retaliate if Russia attack first.

What West believe and what Russian believe are already in different opposite situations. There are practically no trust from both sides at this moment. What you are point out in your post is what Western believe. Why it is ridiculous if Russian believe on the opposite?

Add:

Mods, fell free to remove my reply in this post toward the Russia-West thread. Although in my opinion it is also related to what transcends as situation derive from this war. This argument yes has been talked (especially point #2 and #3) several times in the past anyways.

@Ananda We have no intention of moving your reply because it is relevant to the topic.

Ngatimozart.
 
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vikingatespam

Well-Known Member
That's the point. This talk from some media or opinions in West that Putin Russia is only bluffing on nuclear is not taken account when Russia found themselves push in to the corner, they will use everything they got including nuclear. It can be argue that Russia push themselves into the corner, however it doesn't matter.
Where is this "corner" ? RU is not facing an existential threat. They were fine before invading UKR, and they can be fine again when they leave it. Russia's survival is not at stake.
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group
Where is this "corner" ? RU is not facing an existential threat.
Question right now is where the red line for Putin Russia that they themselves consider as being push in to the corner.
Well that's the point that I make in my post. Everybody still guessing. However if we see some in Russian Media or online telegram, the existential threat are being talked much by some Russians.

West maybe saying Russian existential survival not in stake, but Ukraine is. Personally I tend to agree, but seems not increasingly the tone Russian regime and some Russian online pods (which has big followers). How many Russian that agree in their tone, well is anybody guess at this moment. Just see what Putin speech in May Parade, it is clear he's preparing Russian for potential esclallation toward Russian "existence" (Even though most in West will argue is his regime existence that's in stake).

This is my points from the posts that I make. On matter of when Russian see they already in 'corner', it doesn't matter what You, me or anybody non Russian believe. It is what Russian believe that matter. That speech that Putin talk in May Parrade can be seen as 'rediculous' by most in the West. Then again, it doesn't matter. What matter is how many Russian believe on that.
 

T.C.P

Well-Known Member
Russian sources are corroborating. It appears Ukraine pulled some SAMs up into Chernovtsi region and ambushed a series of Russian aircraft. So far we have an Su-34, two Mi-8s and possibly an Su-35S or Su-30SM, details are still sketchy.




To inject a little reality into this situation, Russia has backed itself into a corner and has problems from nearly every quarter At this point Russia doesn't need any "excuses" to beef up anything. Russia will beef up what it can where it can, and that's that. One can complain, but compared to invading Ukraine, any "beefing up" of forces elsewhere is so insignificant as to not be worth arguing about. Considering how lopsided the balance of power is in the sea and air between Japan and Russia, no realistic Russian increases can realistically threaten Japan or even do much to mitigate Japan's ability to wreck the Pacific Fleet or push the VVS back into friendly-SAM covered airspace. Personally I'm of the opinion that from a conventional military standpoint Japan can take as many islands from Russia as it wants. If I was in charge of Russia, any serious conflict with Japan, and I would immediately go nuclear. Nothing else will work.
The reports I read in pro Ukr channels were claiming that some of these were shot down by Russian AA. Would not be the first time. Russia has terrible Friend and foe identification.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
The reports I read in pro Ukr channels were claiming that some of these were shot down by Russian AA. Would not be the first time. Russia has terrible Friend and foe identification.
4 aircraft all shot down around the same time? Shortly after Ukraine received an assortment of mid-range and long-range western SAMs? I suppose it's possible. I suspect a Ukrainian op is more likely.
 
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