The Russian-Ukrainian War Thread

SolarisKenzo

Active Member

This is result on Global Supply Chain that's being build for the last three decades. Question remain how this situation in Ukraine will dismantle that supply chain or just reorder that. In the end commercial companies work on cost efficiencies.
This Is the result of egoistic and weak european politics from the end of cold war to today.
The end of the soviet Union was a good opportunity for Europe to unite and become Independent from US, Russian and Chinese influence.
European countries alone are insignificant compared to superpowers, but nationalist egoism Is preventing Europe from investing in a common defence policy, industry, and forces.
European countries are more focused on trashtalking eachother and letting the US ruling their countries for them...
The result Is total International insignificancy and incapability of becoming Independent in politics and defence.
Hopefully this war will hit Europe hard enough for their leaders to understand that they are actually the problem...but I doubt.

Europe spent in 2022 more or less 1/3 of USA military budget ( 270 billions vs 800 billions ), but has roughly 1/10 of US capability.
This Is what you get when you dont understand...
 

Vivendi

Well-Known Member
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Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Its not beyond the realms of possibility that Ukraine will attempt further drone attacks on airfields certainly one of Ukraine's manufacturers of such is believed to building such with a range of 600 miles, should this happen again with aircraft damaged and nothing had been done to prevent this something will also hit the fan
Ukraine used home-modified drones to strike Russian bases (msn.com)
Right now it appears that they're using Soviet-made Tu-141 and it's derivatives. It's unclear that Ukraine can manufacture anything of that nature itself.

Please remind which Putin's actions the West presented as false flags, it should be extreme clear when write such serious allegations. As for "false rumors" ubout dirty bombs, i'd be not so sure of in the claims, we all not there, and realy hard to check this information. If you can proove your words, please do that. (Please do not give the link to the IAEA report, its very flimsy).
For the benefit of everyone in this thread. At the start of this war, there was an alleged Ukrainian incursion into Russia using a BTR-70. Unfortunately whoever Russia had stage this messed up royally, as they used a BTR-70M (possibly from the Caspian Fleet inventory) instead of a regular BTR-70. The BTR-70 is very rare in Russian service (virtually non-existent), but the 70M is a uniquely Russian variant. This clearly demonstrated the attack was a false flag.
 
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tl1000r

New Member
Certainly the deception of the "Little green men " in Crimea 2014 would count as a deception
Text by tl1000r deleted — a reply like that indicates that he is either a completely delusional or a person that is consistently posting misinformation in bad faith.

I think that all other evidences so commonly used in West media (i mean BellingCat also) can be fake too. I was studied all of them many times, and they looks very unconvincing.

Dont get me wrong, i dont want to look like victim of propaganda, i want to know real world situation. Sad to know any public media prevents do that.
 
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Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Could you provide the link on your version of the "Little green man"? I'm here as read only from july 2022 and can not find any analogue in Russian media what you are talking about. A'm asking because supposedly most of Krimea residents decided and voted to be with Russia since they disagreed with new goverment came after Maidan. I was not there myself but know many peoples from there, they are all remind Ukraine goverments (if i remember correctly from 1991 year was 4 stage of it) like indifferent merkantile group of people. So i realy want to know, which false flag Russia got there in 2014.
This is a highly disingenuous statement. A google search for "зеленые человечки крым" immediately yields (1st result) a link to the Russian wikipedia entry for "polite people", the term Russian media and blogosphere used for Russian troops involved in the military operation covering the annexation of Crimea. Both terms were used repeatedly in Russian-language media and social media during the events, though polite people was the preferred term (popularized by a Crimean pro-Russian activist who initially mistook Russian VDV in the airport for Ukrainian troops and later stated that "these are our people, very nice polite people").
 

tl1000r

New Member
This is a highly disingenuous statement
Text by tl1000r deleted — a reply like that indicates that he is either a completely delusional or a person that is consistently posting misinformation in bad faith.
 
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Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Certainly the deception of the "Little green men " in Crimea 2014 would count as a deception
Ukraine Wouldn't Be Russia's First False-Flag War (foreignpolicy.com)
False flag? Russia says Ukraine plans to detonate a ‘dirty bomb’ | Russia-Ukraine war News | Al Jazeera
this article also provides further information on the use of false flags by Russia
Four Russian false flags that are comically easy to debunk (telegraph.co.uk)
These articles suggest that President Putin follows an established pattern
How Russia conducts false flag operations - U.S. Embassy in Georgia (usembassy.gov)
I am not suggesting that Rusia under President Putin is alone in this
To close this out, I think we need to distinguish between deception, misinformation, and false flags. These are distinctly different things. All 3 have been used by Russia in this war.

1. Deception of the enemy, is a standard tactic in war, and in fact in international relations. Countries deceive one another all the time to gain something. Russia deceives Ukrainian troops every day by hiding forces in terrain, and concealing positions. Ukrainian forces reciprocate with the same. This is a normal part of war.

2. Russia put out misinformation right before the war, when Russian officials publicly denied that any invasion of Ukraine was coming. These were open lies. Governments do lie, Russia is far from unique in this. But it's separate from just deception (concealment of intent for example).

3. Lastly is false flags. A false flag is an act carried out by agents of the state under either the cover of plausible deniability ("polite people" are a classic example, at the time it was hilariously stated by pro-Russian sources that these are "local self-defense forces") or openly under the flag of another actor, state or even non-state. Russia is not the only country who does this.

(a) Technically all black ops are a form of false flag, in that the operators are not openly displaying their state actor affiliation. However Russia went quite a bit further then that, staging at least one incident where a BTR-70M was painted in Ukrainian camo colors, and filmed with a team of soldiers dressed in Ukrainian uniforms, allegedly entering Russia.​

(b) The destroyed vehicle was then prominently displayed on TV as evidence of a Ukrainian attack. This is less "US black ops" and more "Poland bombed Germany so Hitler had to invade" (or if you want a more inflammatory example, when the US painted up an aircraft in Cuban colors to support the attack at the Bay of Pigs, not their finest hour), a blatant provocation used to justify military action.​

I don't want to go too far down this rabbit hole. If anyone is interested in discussions of Russian use of deception, misinformation, or false flags, more broadly, the Russia and the West thread is appropriate. For deception, misinformation, and false flags, directly related to this war, feel free to discuss here but ensure your replies are narrowly tailored to the optic of this thread.
 
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Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Posts regarding NATO/EU defense spending and planning moved to the Russia and the West thread
 

vikingatespam

Active Member
Ok, you know everything about those nations(their government), let it remain on the conscience of those who think so. But did you asked the Ukraine? Do they ready fight to the last soldier? All this comedy will ends down in one day after puppet Ukrainian government get's signal.
I case you hadnt noticed, the UKR have decided to fight. Any time they want to stop fighting, no one is preventing them. As long as the UKR are willing to fight for their country, the West should supply them. If the west keeps supplying UKR, the economic balance is in the favor of UKR.

Calling the UKR government a "puppet" is nothing more than RU MOD propaganda.
 

vikingatespam

Active Member
Text by tl1000r deleted — a reply like that indicates that he is either a completely delusional or a person that is consistently posting misinformation in bad faith.

I think that all other evidences so commonly used in West media (i mean BellingCat also) can be fake too. I was studied all of them many times, and they looks very unconvincing.

Dont get me wrong, i dont want to look like victim of propaganda, i want to know real world situation. Sad to know any public media prevents do that.
Sources such a Bellingcat and Oryx are the golden standard for OSINT and represent a superior source of information compared to either RU or UKR MOD.
 

mist

New Member
I case you hadnt noticed, the UKR have decided to fight. Any time they want to stop fighting, no one is preventing them. As long as the UKR are willing to fight for their country, the West should supply them. If the west keeps supplying UKR, the economic balance is in the favor of UKR.

Calling the UKR government a "puppet" is nothing more than RU MOD propaganda.
Ukraine decided to fight? or is it the whole of NATO that's fighting Russia? can Ukraine even fight? we are quick to call out Russian propaganda and lies then we start believing our own propaganda and lies.. Russia is effectively fighting all of NATO in Ukraine and we are effectively fighting Russia in Ukraine. from military supplies to intelligence, everything is being done by NATO, i even doubt that Ukraine can target anything inside Russia without the help of NATO. if this war continues like this, Russia will have to make some very serious decisions and one of those NATO countries like Poland will be attacked by Russia. this will really expose NATO as a scam if NATO don't respond, if NATO responds then we are talking NUKES straight away.. nobody wants this
 

Milne Bay

Active Member
Ukraine decided to fight? or is it the whole of NATO that's fighting Russia? can Ukraine even fight? we are quick to call out Russian propaganda and lies then we start believing our own propaganda and lies.. Russia is effectively fighting all of NATO in Ukraine and we are effectively fighting Russia in Ukraine. from military supplies to intelligence, everything is being done by NATO, i even doubt that Ukraine can target anything inside Russia without the help of NATO. if this war continues like this, Russia will have to make some very serious decisions and one of those NATO countries like Poland will be attacked by Russia. this will really expose NATO as a scam if NATO don't respond, if NATO responds then we are talking NUKES straight away.. nobody wants this
This war would end tomorrow if Russia decided to go home and leave Ukraine.
That's all that Ukraine and the rest of Europe is asking at the moment.
The reason that the war continues is because Russia wants it to
MB
 

tonnyc

Well-Known Member
Ukraine decided to fight? or is it the whole of NATO that's fighting Russia? can Ukraine even fight? we are quick to call out Russian propaganda and lies then we start believing our own propaganda and lies.. Russia is effectively fighting all of NATO in Ukraine and we are effectively fighting Russia in Ukraine. from military supplies to intelligence, everything is being done by NATO, i even doubt that Ukraine can target anything inside Russia without the help of NATO. if this war continues like this, Russia will have to make some very serious decisions and one of those NATO countries like Poland will be attacked by Russia. this will really expose NATO as a scam if NATO don't respond, if NATO responds then we are talking NUKES straight away.. nobody wants this
Ukraine decided to fight. Russia is fighting Ukraine. Russia is not fighting all of NATO. Russia loves telling themselves that they are fighting NATO because that way they do not have to explain the deterioration of their armed forces. But the fact is that Russia has allowed themselves to deteriorate so much that Ukraine is able to fight them off.

The blame for this deterioration is also Russia's and if they want to reform the first step is to admit it.

Does NATO help? Not really. Countries in NATO do indeed help but so are countries outside NATO (Finland comes to mind). Meanwhile Hungary, which is a NATO member, is not helping while Turkey is pretty mercenary about it. You have this weird idea that NATO dictates the policies of their member nations when it's actually the member nations deciding for themselves whether to help Ukraine and it just so happens that most of them are NATO members and are thus used to coordinating with each other.

Again, you can tell yourself it's Russia versus all of NATO and Russia can tell themselves that too and feel better about themselves, but well, losers always blame others for their failures. You don't have to believe their excuses though.
 
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vikingatespam

Active Member
Ukraine decided to fight? or is it the whole of NATO that's fighting Russia? can Ukraine even fight? we are quick to call out Russian propaganda and lies then we start believing our own propaganda and lies.. Russia is effectively fighting all of NATO in Ukraine and we are effectively fighting Russia in Ukraine. from military supplies to intelligence, everything is being done by NATO, i even doubt that Ukraine can target anything inside Russia without the help of NATO. if this war continues like this, Russia will have to make some very serious decisions and one of those NATO countries like Poland will be attacked by Russia. this will really expose NATO as a scam if NATO don't respond, if NATO responds then we are talking NUKES straight away.. nobody wants this
A pile of equipment without personnel to use it doesnt fight anything. UKR decided to fight before one piece of heavy equipment was sent there. UKR decided to fight, not NATO. Claiming all of NATO is in UKR is just more mindless RU troll farm talking points. If NATO was actually in UKR, there wouldnt be a war going on, just a mop up on the battlefield and counting the dead RU.

The easiest, fastest way to end this war is for Putin to fuck off back into RU proper. This is on him. As long as UKR is willing to fight, the West should support them.
 

mist

New Member
A pile of equipment without personnel to use it doesnt fight anything. UKR decided to fight before one piece of heavy equipment was sent there. UKR decided to fight, not NATO. Claiming all of NATO is in UKR is just more mindless RU troll farm talking points. If NATO was actually in UKR, there wouldnt be a war going on, just a mop up on the battlefield and counting the dead RU.

The easiest, fastest way to end this war is for Putin to fuck off back into RU proper. This is on him. As long as UKR is willing to fight, the West should support them.
are you sure it will be a mop up? pumping weapons into Ukraine and sanctioning Russia to stupor means your actively fighting Russia. its not a secret, top US officials openly saying it..

so all of NATO and almost all of the western world are at war with Russia.. in this David and Goliath show down, honestly, Russia is David
 
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