The Royal Navy Discussions and Updates

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
If he had not married into the firm the general consensus is that he would have at least got to flag rank on his own merits due to his "social rank" of the time which mattered greatly, however due to his Uncle Dickie he would have had a very good shot at achieving Admiral or Admiral of the Fleet by the end of his naval career.
Word has it that he had the ability to go all the way to First Sea Lord without Uncle Dickies help. He was quite an intelligent and astute man.
 

Big_Zucchini

Well-Known Member
Currently exhausted so I won't write much.
IAI and Thales have signed an agreement to develop and market another iteration of the Gabriel V, this time called Sea Serpent. Its target customer is the RN.
It is also known as Blue Spear in Singapore, and Finland has another name for it. Previously also named ANAM.

The idea is to fit it on at least 5 Type 23 frigates, as an interim solution between the withdrawal of the Harpoon and servicing of a new missile by the 2030's, under a JV between the UK and France.

@OPSSG This may be of interest for you.

 

Systems Adict

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
At last - HMS Glasgow, the 1st type 26 Frigate, breaks cover, during a block move at the Govan shipyard where she's being built. This is effectively the front half of the ship, with the rear half allegedly set to be joined up to the front somewhere in the late summer / early Autumn 2021.

HMS Glasgow roll out 16/04/21

Also in the video, you can see the rear section of the hull / flight deck (on the right hand side of the image), with the large white plastic sheeting that is sticking out of the construction hall (on the left hand side of the image), containing the mid-section of the ship.

Hopefully the completed hull will be ready to head into the river by early 2022, to travel about a mile down the river to BAE's sister yard at Scotstoun where the majority of the fitting out & testing normally takes place.

SA
 
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oldsig127

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro

Redlands18

Well-Known Member
Your comments might be just a little brief for the taste of the mods. From my perspective it will be nice to see her in our waters, and hope she does visit

oldsig
Unfortunately there is no indication they will be visiting an Australian Port, will be interested to see if Australia deploys a.E-7 to exercise with them in preparation for the RAF getting there own.
 

OldNavy63

Member
I’m not a Twitterer but the UK Carrier Strike Group 2021‘s Twitter feed #CSG21 is linked below:


The link is quite informative and is regularly updated with links to CSG units.

Forces.net is also a good info resource for the deployment:


Exercise Bersama Lima under the FPDA will be one of the highlights with participation of Australian and New Zealand forces.
 

spoz

The Bunker Group
My understanding is that they haven't yet announced the route home from Japan. There has been some suggestion in the brit chat rooms that it may be by way of NZ or Aust or both then to S. Africa but until something formal is announced, who knows? Even if they do, doubt if the carrier will make it to Adelaide although some of the escorts might.
 

ASSAIL

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
My understanding is that they haven't yet announced the route home from Japan. There has been some suggestion in the brit chat rooms that it may be by way of NZ or Aust or both then to S. Africa but until something formal is announced, who knows? Even if they do, doubt if the carrier will make it to Adelaide although some of the escorts might.
QEII could use the Outer Harbour wharves where the charted depth is 14.2 mtrs below LAT.
If she’s going to South Africa a quick diversion to Adelaide would be pretty nice and she could load up with some special SA wines.
A Cooks Tour including Brisbane, Sydney, Melbourne and Fremantle would be even better and good for RAN recruiting. ;)
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
QEII could use the Outer Harbour wharves where the charted depth is 14.2 mtrs below LAT.
If she’s going to South Africa a quick diversion to Adelaide would be pretty nice and she could load up with some special SA wines.
A Cooks Tour including Brisbane, Sydney, Melbourne and Fremantle would be even better and good for RAN recruiting. ;)
Given the RN’s recruitment issues, exposing their crews to the OZ alternative is a scary prospect for crew retention.:)
 

StobieWan

Super Moderator
Staff member
Given the RN’s recruitment issues, exposing their crews to the OZ alternative is a scary prospect for crew retention.:)
I'm sure they'll make certain every man jack of them is shackled to the oars :)

It'll be a fabulous cruise to look back on for everyone involved I'm sure - been a long time since the RN stretched it's legs that far out with that much muscle in tow.
 

Systems Adict

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Nice to see the rear end of HMS Glasgow has made it out onto the Hardstand at Govan, a whole 24hrs ahead of schedule !
The Main mast assembly appeared at the weekend, after being shipped to the yard on a barge.

At 149.9m in length, she won't be kicking the backside off of the length of a Type 45 Destroyer, at 152.4m long...


In other news, these x2 articles appeared in the last 24hrs...

More frigates to be built in Scotland

Type 32 Frigates to be built in Rosyth

...& finally...

HMS Tamar dazzles as iconic wartime paint scheme is revived


SA
 

Calculus

Well-Known Member

t68

Well-Known Member
Nice to see the rear end of HMS Glasgow has made it out onto the Hardstand at Govan, a whole 24hrs ahead of schedule !
The Main mast assembly appeared at the weekend, after being shipped to the yard on a barge.

At 149.9m in length, she won't be kicking the backside off of the length of a Type 45 Destroyer, at 152.4m long...


In other news, these x2 articles appeared in the last 24hrs...

More frigates to be built in Scotland

Type 32 Frigates to be built in Rosyth

...& finally...

HMS Tamar dazzles as iconic wartime paint scheme is revived


SA

Interesting that more ships are being marketed for direct news for RN contracts in Scotland, thought they may hold them back to see if Sturgeon gets her way for a 2nd independence referendum, but could also point to what jobs you will be losing if it happens
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Interesting that more ships are being marketed for direct news for RN contracts in Scotland, thought they may hold them back to see if Sturgeon gets her way for a 2nd independence referendum, but could also point to what jobs you will be losing if it happens
The SNP won 64 seats out of 129 seats in this weeks Scottish Parliamentary elections. If they had won one more seat it would've given them an absolute majority. However the Scottish Green Party won eight seats and they have the same independence views as the SNP. What makes it interesting for Boris is when the SNP submit a Bill to the Scottish Parliament for a Second Scottish Independence Referendum and it passes.

If the Scottish Parliament then forwards a request for the Referendum to London and London denies it, they may still go to Court to argue their case. Or they may hold the Referendum and argue the case with Boris after the results come out. Or hold the Referendum even when Boris says No. Whatever he does, north of the border Boris is a loser. South of the border it will be a different story because if he agrees to it, or is forced to agree it, and the Referendum is successful, Boris would be pilloried as the PM who oversaw the dissolution of the Union.

BBC News - Election 2021: What do the results mean for Scottish independence?

WRT the RN if that came to pass, that would mean them losing their nuclear sub base at Faslane which would have to be relocated to England and a significant sum expended cleaning up the base. The RAF would also lose Lossiemouth as well where the P-8A is to be based. The RN shipbuilding would have to be moved to English yards because Northern Ireland and Wales continuation in the Union would also have to be queried as well, especially if Scotland gains its independence.
 

Musashi_kenshin

Active Member
What makes it interesting for Boris is when the SNP submit a Bill to the Scottish Parliament for a Second Scottish Independence Referendum and it passes.
To be honest it isn't that interesting, because the government has made it clear they will not grant consent to another referendum (at least for several years). He has the law on his side, so holds all the cards.

The SNP is planning to push forward legislation for an "advisory" referendum that they would then use as leverage to negotiate with Downing Street. They think it's a clever way to get around the fact the UK's constitutional position is a reserved matter. However, all referenda are advisory except in very unique circumstances where the law has been changed subject to a successful referendum.

It is 99.9% certain that the Supreme Court will hold the Scottish Parliament does not have the power to hold a referendum on Scotland's independence without authorisation from the UK government.

Or hold the Referendum even when Boris says No.
If the SNP hold a referendum on a reserved matter and they lose in the Supreme Court, they will be breaking the law, and the Scottish courts would be obliged to follow a decision from the Supreme Court. That could mean injunctions against the referendum taking place.

There is a significant amount of "soft" independence support that doesn't want a violent or destructive split from the union. If the SNP tried to push forward with an illegal referendum it would harm the nationalist movement.

Also, if the SNP did push ahead with an unlawful referendum and the Scottish judiciary chickened out and declined to enforce the Supreme Court's decision, unionists would probably boycott it, resulting in low turnout, and the UK government would ignore it. It has been argued that would be "unthinkable" because it would make relations between Scottish nationalists and the UK worse, but relations are already rock-bottom - they realistically cannot get worse.

So, in short, I'm not sure how serious the SNP are about breaking the law. I think it's more likely they will try it on and then go away and grumble for a while if/when they lose the case.

WRT the RN if that came to pass, that would mean them losing their nuclear sub base at Faslane which would have to be relocated to England and a significant sum expended cleaning up the base. The RAF would also lose Lossiemouth as well where the P-8A is to be based. The RN shipbuilding would have to be moved to English yards because Northern Ireland and Wales continuation in the Union would also have to be queried as well, especially if Scotland gains its independence.
I don't know how much the UK cares about Lossiemouth in the long run to make a fuss over it. However, I doubt Faslane would be closed. Either a lease would be agreed with Scotland or the UK would make it part of the withdrawal agreement that it was to remain in UK hands after independence.

The Act of Union contains no mechanism for Scotland to leave, so even if it was agreed it could leave in principle, if the SNP make demands that are grossly unreasonable it may be that it's told if it won't reverse course it wouldn't be allowed to leave - Scotland cannot leave the UK until an Act of Parliament is passed to allow that.
 

StobieWan

Super Moderator
Staff member
The SNP won 64 seats out of 129 seats in this weeks Scottish Parliamentary elections. If they had won one more seat it would've given them an absolute majority. However the Scottish Green Party won eight seats and they have the same independence views as the SNP. What makes it interesting for Boris is when the SNP submit a Bill to the Scottish Parliament for a Second Scottish Independence Referendum and it passes.

If the Scottish Parliament then forwards a request for the Referendum to London and London denies it, they may still go to Court to argue their case. Or they may hold the Referendum and argue the case with Boris after the results come out. Or hold the Referendum even when Boris says No. Whatever he does, north of the border Boris is a loser. South of the border it will be a different story because if he agrees to it, or is forced to agree it, and the Referendum is successful, Boris would be pilloried as the PM who oversaw the dissolution of the Union.

BBC News - Election 2021: What do the results mean for Scottish independence?

WRT the RN if that came to pass, that would mean them losing their nuclear sub base at Faslane which would have to be relocated to England and a significant sum expended cleaning up the base. The RAF would also lose Lossiemouth as well where the P-8A is to be based. The RN shipbuilding would have to be moved to English yards because Northern Ireland and Wales continuation in the Union would also have to be queried as well, especially if Scotland gains its independence.

Wale's position in the union is somewhat different than Scotland and Ireland - Wales is a principality, not a country. And having spoken to a number of Welsh, I don't detect much appetite for independence.

With Ireland, sentiment appears to be shifting from unionist sympathies and voting is no longer as rigidly defined by sectarian lines as before. So, a move towards unification as a purely pragmatic decisison seems more possible than ever (still unlikely, but no longer as impossible!)

Scotland is the real elephant in the room and managing that is going to be tricky. Simply telling the scots "nope" will push feelings in favour of a referendum even if there's no actual feeling in support of leaving the UK.

On the bases, the SNP have already said they would not be willing to permit the deterrent to remain on Scottish soil- and various figures in the RN have indicated it'd either move to Kings Bay, Georgia, or be co-located with the French. Kings Bay would be trivially easy as all the facilities for handling trident missiles are already present and RN subs already rock up to the front door on a regular basis and collect missiles anyway.

That'd leave abandoning Coulport special munitions jetty and the trident storage facility as a relatively simple task and the attack boats could be relocated to another UK port.

The SNP have already said they'd keep Faslane open to host the Scottish navy (makes no sense, it's on the wrong side of the country but that's what they're saying.

That seems to be relatively simple compared to the headache of recreating the deterrent facilities in the rUK which is a useful tool in defanging the SNPs threat to cause disruption to the deterrent.

On Lossiemouth - I suspect the SNP would be more likely to agree to leasing the base as it's not a nuclear facility and they'd probably want some of the P8 flying under their flag - and having them serviced by the RAF as part of a combined arrangement is a pragmatic arrangement for both sides - expect to see mixed crews in the same we we've had RAF crew serving with the US for instance.

The biggest counter argument to independence is, ironically, EU membership - Scotland exports something like 60% of it's goods to the rest of the UK - and if they rejoined the EU, assuming we don't rejoin the customs union in a few years, there'd have to be a hard border between England and Scotland.
 
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