The Royal Navy Discussions and Updates

StobieWan

Super Moderator
Staff member
The RN do seem to like their single role ships, well single role everything. There seems to be a pattern to UK defence procurement of going for unique, single role platforms rather than multirole, or even using common platforms or systems across platforms.

I'm not saying its right or wrong, or even that there aren't advantages, just making the observation.

It's been discussed a few times I know - type 42 only had any surface to surface weapons in Argentine service and 45 only acquired harpoon as hand-me-downs. Interestingly however, the 45 replacement is being assigned a Type 83 number - which properly would be multi-role.

I keep looking at the spec of the Canadian and Australian Type 26 variants and going "cor, I'd like some of that please" personally.
 

swerve

Super Moderator
...
If the money was really there I'd preference two large F35B capable LHD's and a few large LSDs ;but I think that is beyond the current and future budget, although realistically more within the realm of potential need.

Its a difficult crystal ball to read.

Regards S
Large F-35B capable LHDs? There's currently a choice of two off the shelf, one each from Spain (Juan Carlos 1) & one from Italy (Trieste). JC1 is in service with two navies, so has been thoroughly de-risked. Trieste is still building but may be more capable (a bit bigger & faster), & I think has more UK content - though neither has a great deal.

I'd take two of either to replace Albion & Bulwark, or even one to give any two out of three potentially available at any given time from the QEs & the LHD, plus some smaller amphibs.
 

swerve

Super Moderator
The Navantia JC1 actually comes in three sizes so the Poms could go with that design. It would be the least riskiest and they could have two different sizes of the same design. I have a copy of the Navantia document and the 3 LHD / LHA sizes are: 26,000, 20,000, and 13,000 tonnes (page29). Something that would be worth their while looking at, especially if they could convince Navantia to agree to granting them a build licence.
JC1, Galicia/Rotterdam, Johan de Witt & the Bay class are all from the same Enforcer family.
 

Redlands18

Well-Known Member
Damen actually offers the Enforcer in 8 different sizes from the LPD 7000 at 121m, to the De Wit at 176m
 

Stampede

Well-Known Member
Large F-35B capable LHDs? There's currently a choice of two off the shelf, one each from Spain (Juan Carlos 1) & one from Italy (Trieste). JC1 is in service with two navies, so has been thoroughly de-risked. Trieste is still building but may be more capable (a bit bigger & faster), & I think has more UK content - though neither has a great deal.

I'd take two of either to replace Albion & Bulwark, or even one to give any two out of three potentially available at any given time from the QEs & the LHD, plus some smaller amphibs.
Trieste looks very promising. Given that it's just slightly bigger than Juan Carlos I I'm sure that extra deck area would be appreciated.

I do have concerns for the QE Class carriers. While they are big impressive ships, they are a major investment in capital and personnel that will vacuum up dollars over their lives. it will be interesting to see how Great Britain does justice to theses vessel while maintaining the rest of the fleet while finding the correct balance with the other two services.
At this stage the intent is to maintain both ships which is a good thing.

Would probable have gone down a different path.


Regards S
 

Albedo

Member
Eh? I'll grant the others but there seems to be SFA common DNA between JC1/Canberra and the three LPDs

oldsig
Quote from Page 29 of PDF said:
Navantia's developments in the field of amphibious warfare are grouped together as the Athlas family.

This consists of four sub-families grouped together by displacement, having hull and other elements in common, and with variants depending on the missions that the ship should carry out.
From the document ngatimozart shared (family breakdown in table on page 31), Navantia considers both the Galicia class and the JC1 class part of the same Athlas family. There's apparently commonality in hull form.
 

Stampede

Well-Known Member
Vale Prince Philip, The Duke of Edinburgh who died today at 99 years of age.

A serving Naval Officer in World War Two, he was of a generation that faced great hardship in uncertain times.
Whatever your station in society; once your in uniform and placed in harms way you get to share at that moment in time all the vulnerabilities of life with those colleagues serving next to you.

An experience shared by many of that generation.

Thankyou for your service and may you rest in peace.

Regards Stampede
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Vale Prince Philip, The Duke of Edinburgh who died today at 99 years of age.

A serving Naval Officer in World War Two, he was of a generation that faced great hardship in uncertain times.
Whatever your station in society; once your in uniform and placed in harms way you get to share at that moment in time all the vulnerabilities of life with those colleagues serving next to you.

An experience shared by many of that generation.

Thankyou for your service and may you rest in peace.

Regards Stampede
Admiral of the Fleet, he has now crossed the bar. He was a good man who didn’t suffer fools gladly. He was the Queen’s strength and greatest support and he had a great sense of humour. A sailor to the end. RIP Sir.

There are no flowers on a sailor’s grave
No lilies on an ocean wave
The only tribute is the seagulls sweep
And the tears upon a loved one’s cheek
Fear not for those who go down to the sea in ships
For as sunset draws near and dawn breaks afar
We remember those who have crossed the bar
 

StobieWan

Super Moderator
Staff member
Interesting that his express wishes were for no state funeral.

Quite a character, a prince of Denmark and Greece, arrived in the UK sleeping in an orange box, went on to become a prince of England.

And served his adopted country admirably on board cruisers in the Med (which would have been exciting)

I feel the world has become slightly less interesting with his passing. And no, I do not subscribe to the theory that being mentioned on social media a lot makes you actually objectively interesting :)
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Interesting that his express wishes were for no state funeral.

Quite a character, a prince of Denmark and Greece, arrived in the UK sleeping in an orange box, went on to become a prince of England.

And served his adopted country admirably on board cruisers in the Med (which would have been exciting)

I feel the world has become slightly less interesting with his passing. And no, I do not subscribe to the theory that being mentioned on social media a lot makes you actually objectively interesting :)
Apparently he didn't like fuss and just would rather get on with it. That's why I felt sorry for the nurses who were looking after him. They'd be fussing around making him comfortable and he'd be grumping at them. There's some really good quotes of his floating around.
 

Redlands18

Well-Known Member
Apparently he didn't like fuss and just would rather get on with it. That's why I felt sorry for the nurses who were looking after him. They'd be fussing around making him comfortable and he'd be grumping at them. There's some really good quotes of his floating around.
Normally he would have got a State Funeral with dozens of Heads of State/Government attending but that would not have been possible anyway in a Covid world.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Normally he would have got a State Funeral with dozens of Heads of State/Government attending but that would not have been possible anyway in a Covid world.
Even without the COVID19 if they tried to give him a State funeral with all the trimmings, I can just imagine this voice bellowing out "Bugger off and just put me in the bloody ground without all this stupid bloody fuss".
 

Takao

The Bunker Group
Even without the COVID19 if they tried to give him a State funeral with all the trimmings, I can just imagine this voice bellowing out "Bugger off and just put me in the bloody ground without all this stupid bloody fuss".
Which is why he requested not to have one.

All his post-death plans were signed off by him, and they reflect a private, military officer who loved his family.
 

oldsig127

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
And served his adopted country admirably on board cruisers in the Med (which would have been exciting)
HMS Ramillies and HMS Valiant (where he fought in the battle of Matapan and was MiD) were both battleships, then a pair of destroyers or destroyer escorts the second of which he was first lieutenant. No cruisers though.

Yes, I'm a pedant, sorry.

oldsig
 

StobieWan

Super Moderator
Staff member
HMS Ramillies and HMS Valiant (where he fought in the battle of Matapan and was MiD) were both battleships, then a pair of destroyers or destroyer escorts the second of which he was first lieutenant. No cruisers though.

Yes, I'm a pedant, sorry.

oldsig

Ah, thought he was a cruiser guy, I sit corrected :)

Edit, Kent and Shropshire apparently:


"Remaining in the Indian Ocean, in May 1940 he joined the County Class cruiser, HMS Kent, which was serving as the China station’s flagship, and between September and December he served in her sister ship HMS Shropshire. "

Not in the Med however so that's likely where I'm getting mixed up.
 
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MrConservative

Super Moderator
Staff member
If he had not married into the firm the general consensus is that he would have at least got to flag rank on his own merits due to his "social rank" of the time which mattered greatly, however due to his Uncle Dickie he would have had a very good shot at achieving Admiral or Admiral of the Fleet by the end of his naval career.
 

spoz

The Bunker Group
If he had not married into the firm the general consensus is that he would have at least got to flag rank on his own merits due to his "social rank" of the time which mattered greatly, however due to his Uncle Dickie he would have had a very good shot at achieving Admiral or Admiral of the Fleet by the end of his naval career.
The consensus of the time was also that he was a very good Naval officer - I served with officers who had served with him. Sure, he also had good family connections but unlike the Army, the Navy has always demanded at least ability and preferably merit in those who were given command, as opposed to ceremonial, positions
 

MrConservative

Super Moderator
Staff member
The consensus of the time was also that he was a very good Naval officer - I served with officers who had served with him. Sure, he also had good family connections but unlike the Army, the Navy has always demanded at least ability and preferably merit in those who were given command, as opposed to ceremonial, positions
Yes he was indeed a very good naval officer. RADM Ted Thorne an ex RNZN CNS back in the 1970's who I got to know after his Naval career worked with him post war during his time in the Med. Ted said he would have gotten their on his own merits and was very capable and diligent, probably worked harder because of who he was seen to be. But Ted rightly said that the very political Uncle Dickie, who looked upon Philip as his golden boy would have damn made sure of it - was his view.
 
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