The Indonesian Army

[Ananda]

Alutsista Litbanghan Puspalad Ditampilkan Pada HUT ke -78 TNI di Monas

Alutsista Litbanghan Puspalad Ditampilkan Pada HUT ke -78 TNI di Monas - Dinas Penelitian dan Pengembangan - TNI Angkatan Darat

tniad.mil.id

Rumours this ammo multipurpose transport is part of Tech Transfer from Brazil Avibras toward Astros MLRS. This prototype is developed by Army Litbanghan (RnD Unit), asside support Astros MLRS on carrying their rockets, but also can be use for other ammo transports.

Ussualy if this is going to be in production line, they will make production deal either with Pindad or other specialise vehicle producers.

 

[Ananda]

Hadiri Seoul ADEX 2023 Republikorp Teken Kontrak Strategis dengan LIG Nex1

Indonesian Private Defense Company conduct 'strategic' tied up with ROK LIG-Nex1 for their ATGM Raybolt.


(Image from Korea Defense Blog)

Basically despite the claim of joint production, knowing this is a new company in Batam, I suspect more on license assembly co-op. Still despite the problem with KF-21 and DSME 209, South Korea seems still got some defense contract. This company (Republikorp) is relative new player, but seems manage to gain several partners quite fast.

On indigenous missiles program, MinDef also supporting PT. Dahana (SOE on Munition production line) project with a University in Jogjakarta.

Kementerian Pertahanan Republik Indonesia

www.kemhan.go.id

This is for VSHORAD Manpad Anti Air missile, with Dahana supplies munition and propellant, while the University research team work on guidance system and Metalurgi on missile body.

This is indigenous missile that lately become MinDef show case project, as their other more 'glamorous' SSM project (what they call reverse engineering of C-705), bit not gaining information in media. Indicating potential problems in development.

 

[Ananda]

https://fb.watch/nQtyHSlFPp/?mibextid=SphRi8

The co-op between Republikorp and LIG-NEX1 on Skybolt ATGM, already put in MinDef FB. Usually this shown the deal already got MinDef backup and order.

 

[Ananda]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1721318325937213703

This Republikorp seems getting traction as partner
of choice from several foreign suppliers for local production or at least local customisation. Some say this is because MinDef dissatisfied with SOE performance on doing tech transfer project. Other simply put more cynical reasoning that the company had strong political connection. Perhaps both speculations has merits.

Either way 4x4 Mine Resitance (MRAPV) previously being discuss for licensing agreement between Pindad with Thales Australia on Bushmaster. Even prototype with Pindad Brand call Sanca has been shown. However seems the deal doesn't goes through (which perhaps raise disappointment in MinDef with SOE company like Pindad).

Thus now Excalibur with this Republikorp move to offer licensing production with this Patriot II. Before Excalibur work with Pindad on IFV Pandur II. Raise some speculation on Pindad Performance, which give raise to this Republikorp portfolio.

 

[Ananda]

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The videos shown the progress of TNI-AD program to keep old Soviet S-60 57mm AA gun updated. The first video shown Indigenous Target Acquisition radar being build for S-60. While the second video shown latest upgrade on S-60 that using remote control and firing from mobile station. The station also use optical guidances control unit.

Thus with optical remote station and add the radar guidance surveillance, all the effort that aim to make S-60 still relevant for present situation. Especially against Helicopters and UAV's.

Note:
Eventough they call it Indegenous Products, however mostly are still assemble using foreign components. Real RnD from Indonesian defense Industry mostly still related assemble using foreign components and design.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

A very nice picture taken from Pindad's Twitter account.

|"Assault rifle & 4x4 tactical vehicle, a cohensive solution for modern defense challenges.
In frame : Senapan Serbu SS2-V4, Senapan Serbu AM-1, Ranops Maung 4x4"|

 

[Ananda]

Texelis to provide Celeris 4×4 kits to Indonesia’s PT SSE - European Security & Defence

Texelis has been selected to provide Indonesia's PT SSE with its Celeris 4×4 mobility solution, the French firm announced on 15 February 2024.

euro-sd.com

This seems going to be pattern increasingly especially for TNI-AD armored vehicles procurement. License Build/Assembly for local manufacturers with established Euro or East Asian OEM. For one thing getting local fabricators asside PINDAD (which increasingly shown limit on their capacities) can be better solution. We already see how for Naval production, increasingly local private shipyard got more projects, outside PAL ones.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

IPTN has received a contract for three more CN235-220 aircraft from the country's Ministry of Defence (MoD).

The USD85 million contract was inked on 30 November 2023 and the aircraft will be delivered to the Indonesian Army's Aviation Centre in the troop transport configuration.

The army currently only has the NC212 for this role, all based at Lanud Pondok Cabe with Skadron Udara Angkatan Darat 21 (SkUAD21).

First CN235s for Indonesian Army

First CN235s for Indonesian Army The Tentara Nasional Indonesia - Angkatan Darat (TNI-AD, Indonesian Army) is set to receive three CN235-220M for troop transport duties. With this ...

www.scramble.nl

Singapore Airshow 2024: Indonesia signs for three more CN235-220 transport aircraft

State-owned aerospace company PT Dirgantara Indonesia (PTDI) has received a contract for three more CN235-220 aircraft from the country's Ministry of Defence (MoD).

www.janes.com

 

[Ananda]

Been circulating in Indonesians online enthusiasts since yesterday. This is photo originating from Antara News Agency, shown some new Armoured Vehicles belong to TNI. This's seems part of shown of vehicles originating from local defence industry. Can be originate products or products that work on partnership like those Pandur II.

Same occasion but photos originate from Pindad:


Pandur II consider by Pindad part of their product as they involve in final assembly and installation as part of Tech Transfer.

 

[koxinga]

Still weird to see the Pandur II's with Elbit's UT30 turret in TNI service. Also in this display, the Pandur II is showing the flotation kit (big chunky side panels on the side)

Would enough Harimau tanks be procured to replace the AMX ?

 

[Ananda]

weird to see the Pandur II's with Elbit's UT30 turret in TNI service.

Officially is not Elbit UT30 but Brazilian Ares UT30Mk2. Indonesia officially will not buy anything on defense article from Israel. However if the supplier come from country deemed friendly and acceptable for Indonesian 'strategic' partnerships (Brazil is part of that), then it does not matter if the supplier also have dealing with Israel.

As torres ARES UT30 MK2 já estão a caminho da Indonésia

Uma das torres pretendida pelo Exército Brasileiro (EB), para equipar sua futura viatura blindada de combate de fuzileiros (VBC Fuz), já é produzida no país e foi exportada. O UT30 MK2 é um sistema de armas remotamente controlado (SARC), altamente configurável, desenvolvido pela Elbit Systems e...

tecnodefesa.com.br

Would enough Harimau tanks be procured to replace the AMX ?

The plan is there, however if they manage to replace all AMX 13 75mm, is already good achievement. As this means they manage to replace 100+ Tanks. Personally I just wait and see the progress on that.

Pindad now upgrading AMX13 105mm. Those that being upgrade I believe will be maintained at least another two decades. Pindad upgrade on paper quite thorough rebuild.





Pindad also doing retrofit with AMX VCI (APC) version. All in all roughly around 400 AMX VCI and 250+ AMX 13 in inventory. I don't think even they (TNI) have design to replace AMX 13 with Harimau and AMX VCI either with Pandur II or other type that Pindad rumours still developing, it can be done in short term. Thus why Pindad retrofitting some of AMX 13 and AMX VCI.



Add:
Rumours that TNI-AD actually plan to have 200 MBT. This going to take some of load that currently used by AMX-13. Initially will be fill by retrofit Ex Euro Leo 2 that's being buy back by Rheinmettal, and then retrofit toward Leo 2 Revolution standard. However with the war in Ukraine, getting 2nd hand Leo 2 going to be challenging. So this is still big questions on current situation from where they can add on current 100+ Leo 2 MBT in Inventory.

 

[koxinga]

I thought the AMX upgrade programes sort of pettered out after a few prototypes during SBY times. Harimau and Badak as replacements.

Edit:
Well, the other side effect of the Ukraine war is Rheinmetal production capacity gone up with new orders of the Leopard 2 from various countries.

That requirement for more Leopards can be done, but from buyinf new ones

 

[Ananda]

That requirement for more Leopards can be done, but from buyinf new ones

With procurement budget more likely goes to AF and Navy, and Army it self seems has other priorities allocation. I don't see they (MinDef) will agree for Newly Build MBT. Retrofit MBT is the most the Army can hope for. At least until there's changes on budget allocation appetite.

 

[koxinga]

The great used Leopard sale is long gone. Even Bundeswehr are buying new ones as replacements for older models that they can send to Ukraine.

Politically, no used Euro Leopards will be sold, since their priority is to support Ukraine.

 

[ChestnutTree]

Rheinmetal production capacity gone up with new orders of the Leopard 2 from various countries.

Just to clarify, it's KMW who are making Leopard 2's. Rheinmetall production went up for ammunition as stated by the Czech defense policy chief the other day.

 

[Ananda]

Put this picture from FNSS as Kaplan/Harimau Medium Tank lead producer. This is configuration that FNSS offer for this MT.



And Video on Kaplan/Harimau MT. Officialy first batch of 10 already handed over from Pindad to Indonesian MinDef as buyer.

Still with current production and procurement rate, it is hard to see Harimau capacity to replace all AMX 13 on one to one base by end of this dacade even early on next one. This is why retrofit 105mm AMX 13 by Pindad need to be done to close the Gap.

 

[koxinga]

Still with current production and procurement rate, it is hard to see Harimau capacity to replace all AMX 13 on one to one base by end of this dacade even early on next one. This is why retrofit 105mm AMX 13 by Pindad need to be done to close the Gap.

I guess the question I have is what would be TNI-AD's ToE for armour? The ToE will determine if there is a need for a 1 to 1 type replacement. I remember most armour assets are Kostrad divisions. I presume some of these are used by the Kodams?

400 AMX VCI and 250+ AMX

The open source numbers (Janes, Military Balance) suggest that operational ones are far lower. Over the years, there were used M113s and Anoas being bought. If we account for these, wouldn't the numbers to be replace be lower?

 

[Ananda]

I remember most armour assets are Kostrad divisions.

I believe (if other Indonesian members can correct, please do), all Kostrad Tanks Battalions already switch from Scorpion 90 to Leo 2. Thus AMX 13 and Scorpion 90 right now mostly are in Kodam Level.

The open source numbers (Janes, Military Balance) suggest that operational ones are far lower.

Yes, from 60's to 80's all TNI-AD tanks basically AMX-13. Yes at period in 60's they operate some PT-76, but from my understanding is short live as all being move to Marines in 70's. One of the reason is the arrival of ex Dutch AMX-13 105.

From TNI-AD data AMX-13 come in two batches, 1st batches mostly AMX-13 75 directly from France in early 60's (#185). Then from dutch in mid 70's (#130). So even tough TNI-AD procured more then 300 AMX-13, but at most around 250+ operationally on the peak operation between 70-80's.

After that the number operationally continue decreasing with Scorpion coming and later on Leopard 2. Most that being withdraw are AMX-75 (but I still see few Kodam in Kalimantan and Sulawesi used them). Even that there's still 100-120 AMX-13 in operation (This is my estimation base on rate of replacement).

Unless the speed of production and procurement of Harimau MT increase, it will need 8-10 years to replace them all. This's basically with conservative estimate of 12-18 annual production capacity in Pindad. That's mean in my calculation at least there's a need to retrofit 30-50 AMX-13 105 (or 2-4 companies), as stop gap.

 

[koxinga]

Unless the speed of production and procurement of Harimau MT increase, it will need 8-10 years to replace them all. This's basically with conservative estimate of 12-18 annual production capacity in Pindad. That's mean in my calculation at least there's a need to retrofit 30-50 AMX-13 105 (or 2-4 companies), as stop gap.

The question I have is whether it might be fair to consider Badak + Harimau as the replacement of AMX-13, instead of just the Harimau.

As you mentioned, some of the older AMX-13s are hand-men downs that serve in the Kodams. Reasonable as they don't face big threats and are simple to maintain and support. As a result, there is no need for a Harimau direct replacement at Kodam level. A cheaper option like the Badak FSV can fill similar roles. Although it appears that the production of the Badak is very slow.

 

[Ananda]

cheaper option like the Badak FSV can fill similar roles. Although it appears that the production of the Badak is very slow.

Badak supposed to replace Alvis Saladin. They supposedly to co-exist in function with Cadillac Cage V150 90mm and Hanwha Black Fox. Seems the TNI planners believe similarities replacement, in such track vehicles replace by track vehicles etc.

In the end so far the replacement rate as I have put before and you also point out are still limited to budget and production capacity. Thus it will take years even replacing AMX 13 and Alvis Saladin. To increase the rate, not only procurement budget increments needed, but also additional capital injection for production capacity in Pindad. That's plan for several years before, that's seems being push back for other Priorities with Maritime and Aero Industry capacities.