The Indonesian Army

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
Maung order come from MinDef, thus more likely they will be distributed to all branch replacing Land Rover Defender and Jeep CJ's. Also Pindad will prepare the 'Civilian' version of Maung, perhaps that will be 'mandatory' official 'field' vehicles to District Commanders or Divisional Commanders. Rather let them used budget to buy 'Rubicon' as official vehicles. It has been talk by State Auditors (from what I heard) to MinDef. Considering the price of Rubicon is more expensive then the Toyota Crown used as official cars for Cabinet members.


Anyway from time to time, Pindad update their Video in their sites. According to this video, Pindad CEO state that this year they already got official order asside for Maung, and 4 billion small ammunition, but also initial Production rate for Harimau Medium Tank and Cobra 8x8. Cobra 8x8 is Pindad designation for their license Production of Pandur 8x8.
Thank you for the information.
One of the reasons that not much budget is left over for procurement of new defence equipment and weaponsystems is that the vehicles for high ranking officials are way too expensive. Also the amount of cars with police-escorte on the Indonesian road is ridiculous high. Not only corruption is devastating for Indonesia, but also the obsession of many to want to show off how high-class exclusive rich important and powerful they are. Also expecting that they deserve a brand new vehicle with every new position/promotion is just stupid.


Here some nice videos of the Pindad Maung. If im not wrong these videos are not posted here yet.



The CN235 is able to take the Panhard VBL, and the soft top variants of the URO VAMTAC and Landrover Defender 110 with folded windscreen, in its cabin. With less width and being lighter, the Pindad Maung should also be able to fit in the CN235.
 
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Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
The TNI is already capable of air assault operations. Their joint-training with the US Army, not only improves their proficiency but removes the bulk of cost of such, high end training. The US Army benefits with closer ties.
I dont see any Indonesian soldiers, vehicles and helicopters....its so dark. Only around 0:30 i see something what looks Indonesian. It looks more like a full American exercise with two or three Indonesian guests.

Anyway thanks for sharing!

This is a recent photo of KOSTRAD-units taken at Sumatra. I think thats a Pindad Komodo with a Mistral launcher on the roof.
 

OPSSG

Super Moderator
Staff member
I dont see any Indonesian soldiers, vehicles and helicopters....its so dark. Only around 0:30 i see something what looks Indonesian. It looks more like a full American exercise with two or three Indonesian guests.

Anyway thanks for sharing!
There are 42 soldiers from Indonesia in this training evolution; and a few more from Thailand who are also in the same air assault group with the US Army’s 25th Infantry Division — with vehicles and helicopters supplied by the US side.
This platoon exchange will include counter-improvised explosive device training, mobility and survival training, and Military Operations on Urban Terrain (MOUT).
 
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Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
Because of the spanduk/banner removal operation from yesterday, this mysterious vehicle suddenly get media-attention.
Since when does KOOPSSUS use this vehicle, and how many did they receive? Are there also other units using the Inkas Sentry?

And now about the Rudal Merapi.
I never knew that Indonesia was seriously developing an own MANPADS.
 

Ananda

Well-Known Member

Put this on Indonesian Army thread, since this article is about Army Chief statement in Media on the Army Helicopters request.

In short the Army Chief acknowledge that the request for MV-22 Osprey is coming from them (before it's speculate come from Navy or even Air Force). He acknowledged also that will depend on how big budget allocation that will be approved.

He also says that 8 AH-8E that already in the Inventory is still need to be increase whenever possible. As for Transport Helicopter, he's stating that the Army need helicopter that can transport heavier cargo than MI-17 in the inventory presently.

All of this actually is not new, as being 'rumours' for some time. However when Army Chief stating publicly in media, I suspect they already put it the request on more advance stage.
Indonesian Armed Forces branches still dominate by the Army. Eventough the foreign credit procurement budget allocation to the Army is getting smaller than Navy and AF, somehow they still get priority.
 

Ananda

Well-Known Member
TNI AD (@tni_ad) Tweeted:
Kasad Menerima Kunjungan Chief of Office of Defense Cooperation yang Baru⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣
⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣
⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣#TNIADMengabdiDanMembangunBersamaRakyat https://t.co/4USDbiIoD9
This is from Indonesian Army (TNI-AD) official twitter. Is just a meeting with US Defense Co-op Agency Indonesia representative with TNI-AD chief of staff. What interesting in the video on 0:10 there's capture of Paper in the meeting talking on MV-22 procurement.

Basically information that procurement of MV-22 must be confirmed before April 21, for Indonesia can get special offer package from US. Seems this's one of the reasons TNI-AD push for MV-22 as there's special offer package.

Seems this special offer package related to US own batch, which need to get confirmation soon in order to be included in the batch.
It's quite interesting that TNI-AD official site shown this. Seems the push for this deal is quite strong, the letter it self mentioned that allocation credit for 8 MV-22 already approved by Ministry of Finance and waiting ratification from Bapenas.
 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
TNI AD (@tni_ad) Tweeted:
Kasad Menerima Kunjungan Chief of Office of Defense Cooperation yang Baru⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣
⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣
⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣#TNIADMengabdiDanMembangunBersamaRakyat https://t.co/4USDbiIoD9
This is from Indonesian Army (TNI-AD) official twitter. Is just a meeting with US Defense Co-op Agency Indonesia representative with TNI-AD chief of staff. What interesting in the video on 0:10 there's capture of Paper in the meeting talking on MV-22 procurement.

Basically information that procurement of MV-22 must be confirmed before April 21, for Indonesia can get special offer package from US. Seems this's one of the reasons TNI-AD push for MV-22 as there's special offer package.

Seems this special offer package related to US own batch, which need to get confirmation soon in order to be included in the batch.
It's quite interesting that TNI-AD official site shown this. Seems the push for this deal is quite strong, the letter it self mentioned that allocation credit for 8 MV-22 already approved by Ministry of Finance and waiting ratification from Bapenas.
Its indeed remarkable that they 'accidently' zoomed in at the paper, so everybody can see the details on it.

So Indonesia has to inform the US if they really want to order 8 (or 6!) MV-22 before the end of April 2021, because the productionline will end soon. Strange that besides Japan (5 ordered) no other countries are interested in the MV-22. Too expensive, or does the CH-47 fit more the requirements of other countries?

Seems that TNI-AD needs the MV-22 more urgently than the CH-47F or AH-64E. The CH-47 has a larger cabin, can accept much more troops and can carry more payload, but probably TNI-AD needs something with much more range and speed. Make sense, Pontianak - Natuna is already more than 460 km.

But it will be or MV-22, or CH-47, both will be just impossible with such a limited defence budget and with so many other things to replace and add.
Well, we will see what will happen next year.
 
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Ananda

Well-Known Member
Indonesia has to inform the US if they really want to order 8 (or 6!) MV-22 before the end of April 2021, because the productionline will end soon. Strange that besides Japan (5 ordered) no other countries are interested in the MV-22. Too expensive, or does the CH-47 fit more the requirements of other countries?
The way I read it, it's not the end of Production line, but more to Production Run of that batch. The offer practically for Indonesia to piggy back the US order batch. Thus can get lower price due to following that batch. If Indonesia missed that, then has to deal separately with Boeing, which I presume due to lower order batch, will get higher price.

CH-47 clearly has more market than Osprey. Seems the calculation on this offer perhaps not much different than CH-47 due to special occasion on the batch. Perhaps this's what make it attractive.
 
Strange that besides Japan (5 ordered) no other countries are interested in the MV-22. Too expensive, or does the CH-47 fit more the requirements of other countries?
The MV-22's characteristics is largely supportive of Indonesia and Japan's geographical environment. In that it allows for a single hop among multiple islands whereas a Chinook would require multiple stops. Not to mention I find it highly likely that the TNI-AD would look into partly operating from Navy ships when the need arises, where the ability for the Osprey to fold its wings for storage is a big plus over the Chinook.

@Ananda, I have a feeling the Osprey procurement would likely go ahead. It would make sense considering the need to balance the trade surplus is a big issue with the outgoing Trump administration and that MenHan doesn't want to procure US fighter jets.
 
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Ahmad

Active Member
Trade balance issue with USA is not a big problem as it hasnt even passed 20 billion USD ceiling yet (one of the parameters set by US to target a specific country as a currency manipulator). Our current account balance is even still difficult to get positive, just get surplus in November after always negative since 2012.

As I said previously, our trade surplus with them is still around 12 billion USD, there are still many room to grow without getting any notice from them with that current figure. Indonesia Central Bank monetary policy is also likely to keep Rupiah under 13.000-15.000 range for long period of time instead of making it weak that can give an alarm from US side to label Indonesia as currency manipulator.

Even Malaysia which has reached 21 billion USD trade surplus with US doesnt have any urge to make it balance. It is normal in global trade as long as it doesnt reach Vietnam case with around 52 billion USD trade surplus.

The fact that US under "Hawkish" Trump administration still gives us preference in trade just recently show what I say has more basis than the other opinion. Biden will also likely to be more relax over this issue and Trump will leave soon.
 
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Ananda

Well-Known Member
have a feeling the Osprey procurement would likely go ahead. It would make sense considering the need to balance the trade surplus is a big issue with the outgoing Trump administration
Trade balance and Economics access is big thing for Trump. Biden might get in lighter tone compare to Trump more vulgar one. However don't ever think they will not ask something from Indonesia either to buy more or open up on something else. Like I say in my previous post, during SBY era, one other thing he used was Airlines diplomacy with Obama. Both Garuda and Lion (eventough is private Airlines) being lobby for more Boeing. Off course it's have commercial calculation. However it's not coincidence when Lion and Boeing signed their big deals, Obama and SBY we're behind them.

So something has to be done from Indonesia side for US procurement or opening Indonesian market more. They have continue preferential access to some of Indonesia Export, and we have to do something else in return, including Government projects like defense.

Trade balance issue with USA is not a big problem as it hasnt even passed 20 billion USD ceiling yet (one of the parameters set by US to target a specific country as a currency manipulator).

You have continue saying that, when the fact saying otherwise. You are entitled to your own opinions, however when you put it on forums especially International ones and moderated like this one, do back it up.

I put the article above shown that US under Trump aim for rebalancing to all ASEAN countries that have trade surplus with them. Rebalancing can be buying more goods from US, or open access for US Companies more in your Economies.

Again, each countries can offer different thing back to US. You can't compare what US want from Vietnam and Malaysia will be the same with what US want from Indonesia as trading Partner. For Indonesia case, what can be offer ? Aside more Beef from US, access for US softwares, usage of more US Telco equipment (which facing big competition from cheaper Chinese, or more efficient Japanese Products), mining access or Government projects including Defense and Aerospace.

US can't sell more cars to us and that's why GM and Ford close their shops here, their electronics can't compete with Chinese, Korean, and Japanese. So, it's left Defense and Aerospace.

Biden will also likely to get more relax over this issue and Trump will leave soon.
Biden will be more polite and tone down compared to more Vulgar Trump. That's what everyone expect and hope. However don't ever think that Biden (just like Obama) will not ask more Economics access to Indonesia including more US export (just like Trump did). His approach will be different, however what he's aim in trade will not much different. It's illogical to think that any US administration on current situation will not ask that. Democrats and Republican both want to reduce trade deficit. If you see all the Congress movement, they both aim that. Their method can be slightly different, however their aim in trade still the same.

Indonesia Economy is bigger than Thailand, Malaysia and Vietnam combined. What US aim with Indonesia will be different than what US aim with all three of them, regardless they have bigger surplus.
 
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ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
@Ahmad just to back up @Ananda I suggest that you read the texts of the failed Trans-Pacific Trade Pact (TTP) pertaining to the US demands. I think that you should be able to find copies in Indonesian. Sorry I can't remember what your national language is called. You will find that the demands, which were made under the Obama Administration, are strikingly similar to that of the Trump Administration's trade policy. All that is different is the language and manner of delivery.

ADDITION. This the link to the New Zealand text of the Agreement.
 
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Ahmad

Active Member
I will try to answer Ananda respond. Just wait, I still want to enjoy my time and dont want to make thorough explanation at the moment.
 
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