T-84 Serial Production?

[Feanor]

Of course. Bu they did delivery a handful to Georgia. So if sufficient foreign contracts emerge, they could have some success. Additionally, the current government is set to cooperate closer with Russia, which could mean that if they are suffering from production issues, they may be able to get help with upgrading the facilities.

 

[grasz]

Of course. Bu they did delivery a handful to Georgia. So if sufficient foreign contracts emerge, they could have some success. Additionally, the current government is set to cooperate closer with Russia, which could mean that if they are suffering from production issues, they may be able to get help with upgrading the facilities.

Agree, if $2.4bln Iraq's contract with Ukrspetsexport will be extended to include T-84 Oplot-M among BTR-4 APC and Antonov An-32, then situation will change. Economy now don't allows to supply army with new tank. There is modernization of T-64 only.

 

[eckherl]

Agree, if $2.4bln Iraq's contract with Ukrspetsexport will be extended to include T-84 Oplot-M among BTR-4 APC and Antonov An-32, then situation will change. Economy now don't allows to supply army with new tank. There is modernization of T-64 only.

No Oplot will make it into Iraqs force structure, You will see T-72s with some upgrades and additional M1 purchases. I think that someday someone will take on this tank.

 

[Feanor]

Bangladesh, if the rumors are true. It may end up a still-born child, however. Ukraine is steadily headed downhill at the moment. Although with the new government, it may get Russia support.

 

[eckherl]

Bangladesh, if the rumors are true. It may end up a still-born child, however. Ukraine is steadily headed downhill at the moment. Although with the new government, it may get Russia support.

I will see it to believe it.

 

[Feanor]

On a related note. People have foud ~200 T-72s sitting snowed in in a forest in Russia, with no guards, or anything else around it.

Íîâîñòè NEWSru.com :: Äâå ñîòíè òàíêîâ Ò-72 íàøëè áðîøåííûìè â óðàëüñêîì ëåñó

Official sources claim the tanks are guarded, and are awaiting transportation. However unofficial sources confirm that the tanks are abandoned, and that you could climb inside the tank and drive away if you knew how to. The article has a home-video, shot by someone living near there.

 

[grasz]

For Iraq T-72 is very suitable choice as well familiriazed and most easy maintained MBT. In the same time USA interested for to sale their old M1's that can defeat T-72's of Iran in hypothetic conflict. In my opinion role of M1 can execute T-84 (in performance), but that's not US interest.
Brazilian Minister of defence in December of 2009 visited Kharkiv Malyshev plant and interested for T-84 Oplot-M. He said that in March of 2010 will be sent delegation of brazilian defence specialists to familiriaze with technical capabilities of Oplot-M. We will see result.
Bangladesh choice was T-84-120 Yatagan. I'm interested about it will be Oplot-M with 120 mm gun or original T-84-120 (as 2000 year variant).
@Feanor, it was a forest for extended strike-ball.

 

[Feanor]

It looks like Ukraine will no longer be able to produce tanks. Estimates for 2012 is that the plant can at most put out 5 Oplots that year.

Gur Khan attacks!: Правда против кривды

Russian language source, unfortunately, but the source is an employee at the plant.

 

[koxinga]

So what would happen to Thai order?

 

[DavidDCM]

I don't think that the Thai order was scheduled for delivery in 2012. I would just lean back and wait what happens. Maybe the project will be reconsidered anyway. Thailand also has quite a shilly-shally attitude when it comes to weapons procurement, and the soldiers did not seem very happy with the Oplot from the start.

I put the Russian article linked by Feanor through babelfish. It seems rather like a furious rant against the Ukrainian blogosphere than a serious piece of news. But maybe Babelfish translation was wrong.

 

[Feanor]

The Thai order was cancelled recently.

The article was indeed a rant, but the source is considered reliable. Gur Khan is a former UVZ emloyee, with connections in the armored vehicle industry. He is citing commentary from a KhBTM employee, with regards to production of BTR-4 and 3 APCs, and T-84 tanks. The claims are that BTR production was very difficult to start up, and ran into a lot of problems, but now is running more or less smoothly, but the T-84 is not ready for any sort of serial run, and T-64BM Bulat upgrades are continuing at a rather slow pace (10-20 tanks annually). This more or less supports what I've encountered earlier, with regards to Ukranian armored industry news (for example they've been re-arming 1 btln with T-64BM tanks every 2 years, and have never delivered the T-84 anywhere in any noteworthy numbers, instead delivering T-72 upgrades). I would take it at face value.

 

[koxinga]

Interesting. New to me although it wouldn't surprise that RTA cancelled/postpone the order due to the floods. It wasn't a popular decision to go for the Oplot anyway.

 

[Volod]

GurKhan article is a lie. He hate all Ukrainian and thinks that all his opponents - paid agents of the SBU (Ukrainian secret service). Ukrainophobia progresses.
Contract is valid.
In a recent interview Malyshev factory director M.Belov said: "we begin to prepare the serial production tank Oplotm, contracted by the Ministry of Defence and the foreign customer"

 

[Feanor]

GurKhan article is a lie. He hate all Ukrainian and thinks that all his opponents - paid agents of the SBU (Ukrainian secret service). Ukrainophobia progresses.
Contract is valid.
In a recent interview Malyshev factory director M.Belov said: "we begin to prepare the serial production tank Oplotm, contracted by the Ministry of Defence and the foreign customer"

I'll believe it when I see them roll the tanks off the production line. Until then, I have serious doubts that they're even capable.

 

[Volod]

and what is your reason for doubt?
gurkhan's black PR?
10 years ago, we heard similar cries from Russia ..)

and why did you decide that the term of the contract delivery is 2012?
Only production cycle - 36 months. The first series of tanks - the end of the second half of 2013

 

[DavidDCM]

If they exist, than what are the reasons for the problems? I am no economist, nor an engineer, but I can imagine two things:
- They either lack the financial strength to purchase and sustain a production line capable of mass producing a tank
- Or they lack the qualified personel to set up and oversee such a production line

Is one of these true?

Is the slow rate of production for the Bulat tank because they could not make it faster, or because the Ukrainian army/government could not pay for more?

 

[Volod]

Yes, there are financial problems like all the past 25 years.
Yes, there is a personnel problem, as the last 15 years.
But this is everyday life of the Ukrainian economy.
Pakistani contract was executed, despite the worst starting position.
Bulat has slow rate of production becouse level of funding for Ukrainian army is inadequate in terms of arms purchases.
The cobbler always wears the worst shoes..)
But according to rumors the Ukrainian army will receive five MBT Oplot next year.
Before the election, the government needs the good news for electorate.

 

[Feanor]

and what is your reason for doubt?
gurkhan's black PR?
10 years ago, we heard similar cries from Russia ..)

What's your point? Those similar cries turned out to be true. We have yet to see any serial run for the T-84...

The Oplot that the Ukranian army will "receive" next year, are the same 10 tanks they have been showing on parades, and various demo shows, for the last decade or so. The Ukranian army has never paid for them, and they technically do not own them.

 

[Volod]

What's your point? Those similar cries turned out to be true. We have yet to see any serial run for the T-84...

The Oplot that the Ukranian army will "receive" next year, are the same 10 tanks they have been showing on parades, and various demo shows, for the last decade or so. The Ukranian army has never paid for them, and they technically do not own them.

oh, you know so well the level of skill ZSU? ..)
Ukraine has mastered the full cycle of production of tanks, including gun sights and other Equipment & Accessories.
Ukraine has successfully executed a Pakistani contract.
Ukrainian tank engines are successfully exported to other countries.
T-84 are studied at military academies, including fire training
Ukraine has mastered the APC production and has the third largest volume of export orders after Finland and Russia.
While others describe how they are cool - we just do our work.

 

[Feanor]

oh, you know so well the level of skill ZSU? ..)
Ukraine has mastered the full cycle of production of tanks, including gun sights and other Equipment & Accessories.
Ukraine has successfully executed a Pakistani contract.
Ukrainian tank engines are successfully exported to other countries.
T-84 are studied at military academies, including fire training
Ukraine has mastered the APC production and has the third largest volume of export orders after Finland and Russia.
While others describe how they are cool - we just do our work.

I fail to see your point. As far as I know most of the UDs Pakistan got were delivered from stock, not newly-built, due to Russia denying parts. As a consequence, the Ukranian Army is rolling around in old T-64Bs while shiny new T-80UDs got sold off. The fulfillment of that contract is a national embarrassment, and in no way demonstrates the strength of Ukranian industry.

I suppose only time will tell, but then when should we then expect deliveries? 2014-15 timeframe?