T-84 Serial Production?

Volod

New Member
I fail to see your point. As far as I know most of the UDs Pakistan got were delivered from stock, not newly-built, due to Russia denying parts.
It is a myth and "russian propaganda"

All tanks were produced by Malyshev Plant.
If you're interested - read Shumilin's article at armor.kiev.ua/Tanks/Modern/T84/

The situation of the USSR tank construction was changed to 180 degree by Pakistani contract
Now Russia is buying parts in Ukraine, but Ukraine has a full production cycle.
 

Feanor

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It is a myth and "russian propaganda"

All tanks were produced by Malyshev Plant.
If you're interested - read Shumilin's article at armor.kiev.ua/Tanks/Modern/T84/
Right. But some of them were produced before the collapse of the USSR. I read your article, and it claims the production of 15 machines post-USSR.

The situation of the USSR tank construction was changed to 180 degree by Pakistani contract
There was no USSR by the time the Pakistani contract came around.

Now Russia is buying parts in Ukraine, but Ukraine has a full production cycle.
Again, I'll wait until we see this full production cycle running.
 

Volod

New Member
Right. But some of them were produced before the collapse of the USSR. I read your article, and it claims the production of 15 machines post-USSR.
15 new tanks are made between August 1996 - February 1997 from the stock parts from Soviet times. But only 15, not 320. Аll the rest are "made in Ukraine"

There was no USSR by the time the Pakistani contract came around.
I mean of course "ex-USSR"..)
 

Feanor

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15 new tanks are made between August 1996 - February 1997 from the stock parts from Soviet times. But only 15, not 320. Аll the rest are "made in Ukraine"
I'd love to see your sources for this.
 

Volod

New Member
I'd love to see your sources for this.
Òàíê Ò-84

translate for you

In the end, after the final 100-day negotiation (can not help but remember the bazaar, where the purchase is not done without prolonged haggling), July 30, 1996 signed a contract to supply Pakistan 320 T-80UD tanks worth $ 650 million in which also include the training of tank crews, spare parts and maintenance to operate. We can say that the Pakistanis when buying a modern tank and save money - Ukrainian T-80UD cost them about $ 2 million, whereas in the U.S. "Abrams" they would have to shell out 4.8 million, and for the French "Leclerc" and all 5.5 million dollars.

Delivery of tanks to Pakistan have been calculated for three years, but the first batch of 15 vehicle the customer wanted to get sure to March 23, 1997. The reason was simple - to this day in Pakistan's National Holiday, which was dated a grand military parade. To plant them. Malyshev deployed emergency work (a situation complicated by the fact that for a number of parts and details the company did not really hurt), reminiscent of the socialist rush, when it was necessary to drive the plan by year-end gifts or commemorate the opening of the labor of another Congress. To catch the deadline, the first paty og tank ready for Jan. 31. I had to work seven days a week and New Year's Eve, and on holidays. February 20, 1997 tanks safely left Ukraine to sail from the port of Nikolayev freighter, and on March 23 held a parade in Islamabad, Pakistan's military giving them an opportunity to "play" with their new steel muscles.
you've read before about the new tank welded turret and engine 6TD-2? You've seen them on Soviet tanks?
 

Feanor

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I'll take a look but so far you have yet to post anything proving your point.

EDIT: It's a great history of T-84 development. However, it does not claim that Ukraine produced themselves all the tanks for the Pakistani contract. Instead it mentions efforts to develop independent production. That's it. As far as I can tell, nothing you provided contradicts common info that most of the tanks were modifications on T-80UDs from the USSR.
 
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Volod

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That's it. As far as I can tell, nothing you provided contradicts common info that most of the tanks were modifications on T-80UDs from the USSR.
it's just your personal opinion
Do you know the production volumes of the T-80UD? ..
Only 500 units before 1991, and only 60 tanks were in the Ukraine
 

Feanor

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it's just your personal opinion
Do you know the production volumes of the T-80UD? ..
Only 500 units before 1991, and only 60 tanks were in the Ukraine
That is an interesting discrepancy. I'll see what else I can find out on the subject.
 

Volod

New Member
Malyshev plant began the implementation Thai contract for the production of MBT Oplot. This was announced in Kharkiv Deputy Director General of Ukroboronprom Vladimir Kuratchenko.
"The plant has already started to implement the contract. For three years we plan to put under the contract 49 vehicle Oplot in Thailand. This will allow to increase production at the Malyshev. In addition, work will get another related enterprises in Ukraine ", - said V. Kuratchenko.
It's a second contract that is performed by Ukrobronpromom for the Thai customer. Earlier Kyiv repair plant produced APCs BTR-3 for the Thai Atmy.
Production of these vehicles will be carried out in 2012, 2013 and most likely in 2014.

ÓÍÈÀÍ - ýêîíîìèêà - Óêðàèíà ïðèñòóïèëà ê âûïîëíåíèþ êîíòðàêòà ïî ïîñòàâêå Òàèëàíäó íîâåéøèõ òàíêîâ «Îïëîò»
 

Feanor

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It's quite telling that production of 49 tanks over 3 years will multiply by several times, the amount of work the Malyshev plant has. Anyways, we'll have to wait and see what happens.

EDIT: Malyshev just delivered 10 T-64BMs to the MoD. Another 24 are planned for service by 2016. These are not new tanks, but modernization, and these numbers definitely don't inspire confidence... lenta.ru claims 81-94 of them in service, but I'd look for a more reliable source. There could be more, or less of them.

http://lenta.ru/news/2011/12/23/bulat/

CAST claims total numbers at 76.

EDIT2: It looks like you're right, Ukraine managed to "save" the contract with Thailand. However no preparation for the production of new tanks has been made, and given the rather flimsy nature of the state testing done on the Oplot-M in 2009, I really have to wonder about what the results of the first deliveries will be, and how the Thai armed forces will feel about their purchase. Especially given the hefty price of 4,9 million USD per tank.
 
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Feanor

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Just a little update, the Malyshev plant has begun bankruptcy procedures. We'll see where this leads, but so far the situation looks far from promising. This is in the middle of problematic BTR-4 deliveries to Iraq, and attempts to start up Oplot production.

Gur Khan attacks!:
 

Damian90

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Plant will most probably not bancrupt, goverment will help it or figure out how to sold it without closing it.

Besides this, there is also tanks repairing plant in Kharkiv that can be reconfigurated in to production facility and cooperate with KMDB.
 

Feanor

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Plant will most probably not bancrupt, goverment will help it or figure out how to sold it without closing it.
The plant could very well go bankrupt without closing.

Besides this, there is also tanks repairing plant in Kharkiv that can be reconfigurated in to production facility and cooperate with KMDB.
You mean in Kiev? The Kiev BTRZ?
 

Feanor

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And there is not a BTRZ in Kharkiv as well?
The one in Kiev is famous for exporting modernized T-72s to third world countries.

The Kharkov one currently looks like this: Полузаброшенный бронетанковый ремонтный завод | MirFactov — вÑÑ‘ Ñамое интереÑное!

So I'm not sure how possible or reasonable it would be to use it as a production facility. Also it was a T-64 repair plant. It never specialized in anything else, as far as I know.
 

Feanor

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Well a little necromancy is in order. Here we are, in 2017. The T-84 production line is indeed running, though at a pace that makes most snails look like drag racers. Despite continuing rumors, Thailand still appears not to have cancelled the contract despite the continuing delays. There is some question to the quality of the tanks. No complaints (as far as I know) have come from Thailand, but given the history of poor quality controls and the extremely low pay at the plant making it hard to hire qualified personnel, it wouldn't be too surprising. Meanwhile Thailand apparently has opted for a Chinese tank to fill the rest of their MBT needs which means the Oplot production run theoretically ends at 49 units. Of course it's always possible (indeed likely) that domestic purchases will replace the Thai order. While Ukraine can't afford true mass production, they can certainly pay for the induction of 5-10 tanks a year, and the plant hasn't been able to put out more then that anyway. As is they promise to complete deliveries to Thailand this year. I guess we'll see
 

STURM

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In the 2001/2002 period KMDB put in a lot of effort in trying to sell Malaysia the T-84, which underwent local trials alongside the T-90 and PT-91. Interestingly, although KMDB already had bustle mounted auto loader during this period, it was not offered for the Malaysian requirement. KMDB also later offered T-84s armed with a 120mm gun for export.

I wonder if Pakistan is sourcing spares for its T-80s from KMDB or elsewhere. I can't vouch for its accuracy but I remember being told by industry officials that during the early 2000's Russia was refusing to supply any spares to customers who had sourced Russian/Soviet MBTs from elsewhere. Apparently, the Russians were adopting the position that licensing agreements with countries such as Poland, Slovakia and the Ukraine, signed during the Cold War. only allowed for the manufacturing of tanks for domestic use and that any exports - even after the Soviet Union ceased to exist - were in violation of the agreement that allowed these countries to license manufacture tanks.

A pic of an RTA Oplot fitted with Shtora and quite a large panoramic sight. Apparently KMDB offered to provide 5 tanks as compensation for the delays. I wonder if the ERA is Kontakt 5 or is something else?
 
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humphuy

New Member
Right but Ukraine never produced very many T-84s to my knowledge. Is this part of a serial production run? Or are these a limited number of machines built just for this order?

EDIT: I know the Ukranian military isn't getting the T-84 any time soon. There is a reason their "elite" units are getting their T-64Bs modernized.
 

STURM

Well-Known Member
I could be wrong but I suspect that some of the RTA's Oplots are based on hulls that were already built but were never completed. As far as I'm aware the most numerous MBT in Ukrainian service is the T-64 with only limited numbers of T-84s operated.
 
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