South Korean Navy

ngatimozart

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Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
The Koreans don’t like the Japanese. Making conversation I once asked a Korean three star what would happen if the two Koreas reintegrated under the Southern system. He said something along the lines of “we would then have the military capacity to take on Japan”. I don’t think he was joking.
Oh yes the Koreans haven't forgotten nor forgiven the Japanese occupation (1910-1945) at all. That's a multi-generational grudge that's probably got a few hundred years to go yet. Same with the Chinese and their experience of the Japanese occupation of Chinese territory. Also the Koreans haven't forgotten their subjugation by various Chinese dynasties either.
 

Ananda

Well-Known Member
Yes.. that's the problem with ROK military/defence planning..they see enemy surrounded them..
They don't trust Kim's dynasty in the north, they always have bad feelings with the archipelago across the Korean sea..and they always nervous with China.

Once I talk with someone from DI that related his conversation with his counterpart in KAI. That time Indonesia just signed up with KFX project..and ROK/KAI still looking for second partner.
The talk with Turkey waswas hitt the wall, and that DI guy ask KAI guy on potential asking Japanese to come.
He said, it's more probable to ask Kim's in the north to join KFX rather than ask Japanese..(well I believe the feelings is quite mutual on Japanese side on defense cooperation with ROK..unless US brokerage behind it).

That's why both of them, despite some domestic resentment on US forces in their respective countries..will always need US not only against Kim's dynasty and potential Beijing move..but also to mediate between both of them.
 
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StingrayOZ

Super Moderator
Staff member
Defence Connect

South Korea to build ship for short-takeoff-and-vertical-landing aircraft

As both China and Japan surge ahead with plans to build potent aircraft carrier capabilities, South Korea has joined the race and announced plans to build a modified large-deck aircraft carrier based on the Republic of Korea Navy (ROKN) Dokdo Class amphibious warfare ships – leaving Australia as the only established Indo-Pacific power without a plan for an aircraft carrier capability...
This new vessel – which is expected to be double the size of the ROKN's two previous Dokdo Class, which weigh in at 14,500 tonnes of displacement – will serve as the basis for Korea's burgeoning carrier capability and will be slightly larger than Japan's Izumo Class vessels at 27,000 tonnes of displacement, which will be modified to accommodate a fleet of STOVL-variant F-35B Joint Strike Fighters beginning in the mid-2020s.
Interesting development. Would be interested what comes out of this design.
 

Ananda

Well-Known Member
ROK Navy’s 1st 3000 tons KSS-III Submarine ‘Dosan Ahn Chang-ho’ Passes Max Depth Test - Naval News

The first indigenous design and also the largest Submarine ROK build (KSS III) already achieve another milestone of Maximum Depth test.

The ROK in the last IndoDefence also put the model of KSS III in the display. They are not offering this submarine yet to any export customers, however with that gesture in last IndoDefence, I do believe this will be offered to export when the times and demand come.

This is not in Soryu categories yet, but compared on the rough data available on line seems will be comparable enough with the latest Chinese SSK.
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group

ngatimozart

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Sandhi Yudha

Active Member
ROK Navy’s 1st 3000 tons KSS-III Submarine ‘Dosan Ahn Chang-ho’ Passes Max Depth Test - Naval News

The first indigenous design and also the largest Submarine ROK build (KSS III) already achieve another milestone of Maximum Depth test.

The ROK in the last IndoDefence also put the model of KSS III in the display. They are not offering this submarine yet to any export customers, however with that gesture in last IndoDefence, I do believe this will be offered to export when the times and demand come.

This is not in Soryu categories yet, but compared on the rough data available on line seems will be comparable enough with the latest Chinese SSK.
This project has indeed an export potential...even a smaller, cheaper and downgraded version can be attractive for potential costumers like Indonesia. Specially after the second batch of the Chang Bogo-class is delivered , they can be interested in this class.

Big chance that the next program, KSS-IV or KSS-V, will become a KSSN-I ...
 

Stampede

Active Member
So an ambition to carry fixed wing aircraft on a 30000 t amphibious / Aircraft carrier.
Looks like South Korea is to join the F35 B Club.
There appears a lot of confidence in this capability.
I wonder if they also try to retro fit the existing Dokdo-class, or have they acknowledged with the projected increase in size, their existing ships may actually be to small for the F35B
An interesting development with two North Asian navy's having this capability.

Regards S
 

swerve

Super Moderator
I'm not aware of anyone having planned to fly F-35B off anything smaller than Juan Carlos, which is a bit smaller (230 metres) than Cavour (244m) & Izumo (248m), but significantly bigger than Dokdo (200m). Currently, Cavour & Izumo are the smallest ships expected to operate F-35B.
 

Stampede

Active Member
I'm not aware of anyone having planned to fly F-35B off anything smaller than Juan Carlos, which is a bit smaller (230 metres) than Cavour (244m) & Izumo (248m), but significantly bigger than Dokdo (200m). Currently, Cavour & Izumo are the smallest ships expected to operate F-35B.
The Dokdo strikes me as a tidy and and useful ship.
Certainly the ships length would be sufficient to launch a F35B and probably recover one as well.
But realistically to operate them, would I would speculate require a lot more work than either of the above mentioned Juan Carlos Class and Cavour which as I understand were future proofed in design to accommodate the F35 at a later stage, with some limited modification.
I don't believe Dokdo lifts are compatible with the F35B and if they wer,e the hangar space does not appear that large.
So for South Korea, do they start from scratch on a completely new design, or do they work with an extended version of the Dokdo Class, with increased hangar space and aviation fuel bunker-age with two appropriate sized aircraft lifts.

One to watch


Regards S
 

StingrayOZ

Super Moderator
Staff member
Some newer information on the new Korean Carrier. Both a CATOBAR

Defence Connect
South Korea Considers Building Large Aircraft Carriers As Country Prepares To Buy More F-35s
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/these-aircraft-carrier-designs-are-being-considered-by-south-korea/


Source : UK defence journal

Reports say that one option is a twin island 70,000 ton vessel with dimensions of 298m long and 75m wide. The vessel would carry 1340 crew and 40 fixed-wing aircraft and 8 helicopters.
The second option is 40,000 tons, 238m long and 62m wide with a crew of 720 and a capacity of 20 fixed wing aircraft and 8 helicopters.
So one just a little bigger than the QE class, and one smaller more like a conventionally powered CdG.

These seem much more significant than just an enlarged Amphibious ship. Either would be quite large. Not sure exactly where S.Korea really wants to project power from with this type of carrier.
 

Sandhi Yudha

Active Member
Quite impressive, to design and build full size aircraft carriers, without any experience in constructing one, or getting second hand/unfinished examples.
China for example needed three foreign vessels to be able to make one by themselves...
 

swerve

Super Moderator
S. Korea has allies with aircraft carriers & many years experience operating them. It might be able to get access. It can buy cats & traps, & aircraft built to use them. China didn't have any of that when it started.
 

StingrayOZ

Super Moderator
Staff member
China's experience was based off the fairly nascent and under developed soviet programs. China has by now clearly taken the lead development on these platforms and trying to solve issues the soviets never really got around to. But its quite likely these are evolutionary dead ends and China will likely take a new tact on future carriers.

SKorea, would simply call up the US, and the US will happily arrange FMS like they did for France and supply MOTS catapults, systems, and give them a choice of in production aircraft, and give them access to training programs. US has a full in production systems and nearly a 100 years of continuous carrier experience to draw from.

As for the ships themselves SKorea has extensive large ship building experience. This would be a walk in the park in terms of building. I am sure the US has offered lots of input on design.

I also imagine Japan are considering similar types of dedicated carriers. There is a strong belief that the F-35B conversions is really only to gain experience and expertise and forge the way for a full blown carrier.
There Is Only 1 Thing Stopping Japan from Building Real Aircraft Carriers

As for S.K carriers.
Both of which look very similar to existing designs. Namely CdG (abit conventionally powered) and QE.

I can see some export potential in a 42,000t conventional CATOBAR carrier with an airwing of about 24. But there are concerns about US sized fighters landing/launching on such a small carrier. I would expect any design to take in the feedback from CdG cross decking. Might only really be suitable for A2A loads.
 

t68

Well-Known Member
I can see some export potential in a 42,000t conventional CATOBAR carrier with an airwing of about 24. But there are concerns about US sized fighters landing/launching on such a small carrier. I would expect any design to take in the feedback from CdG cross decking. Might only really be suitable for A2A loads.

Highly unlikely if they build a light Cat & Trap carrier they will risk the heavier US aircraft but Sea Gripen is a very remote possibility but also unlikely. If they build a light carrier it will be for F35B most likely.

One thing that suggests to me if they decide to go with a catobar carrier will be if they place orders for E2 Hawkeye aircraft, considering the Koreans were sometime ago planing on a modern version of the S3 Viking it will be very interesting to see what they actully put on it.
 

ASSAIL

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Highly unlikely if they build a light Cat & Trap carrier they will risk the heavier US aircraft but Sea Gripen is a very remote possibility but also unlikely. If they build a light carrier it will be for F35B most likely.

One thing that suggests to me if they decide to go with a catobar carrier will be if they place orders for E2 Hawkeye aircraft, considering the Koreans were sometime ago planing on a modern version of the S3 Viking it will be very interesting to see what they actully put on it.
If they order E2 Hawkeye they won’t be bothered about weight of fighter aircraft.
An E2 with 5 crew and full mission fuel needs a substantial cat so any weight difference between Sea Gripen/SH/ F35C is immaterial.
 

StingrayOZ

Super Moderator
Staff member
French operate the EC-2, but chatter about cross decking F-18's seemed to indicate, F-18's are a bit big and heavy to operate regularly off them. I would imagine cats and traps would be the same at the US equipment with no modification. The QE is also the size it is under consideration for CATOBAR operations

I can't see SKorea going with either the SeaGripen or say Rafale. If they are intending to go CATOBAR then why concider F-35b.
Maybe they are considering the 737 AEW&C sufficient for their use of their carrier. South Korea doesn't have to go far to find the enemy.

The South Korean Carrier is one of the projects that doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Same as their stated aim for SSNs.

South Korean navy considering acquiring nuclear submarines

It seems they are thinking the best defence is a good offense and intend to project power further afield. They certainly are technically capable, and have a strong enough economy and sufficient motivation to focus on defence.

The french are apparently also assessing a future carrier. Decision pending 2020.
 

Ananda

Well-Known Member

New video from Naval news on MADEX with this edition covering DSME, Submarine and KDDX.

Interesting on DSME 2000 ton submarine. Showing progressive development from their 1400 ton Improve Changbogo that being build for Indonesian Navy.
At first this is like 214, but seems they are also incorporate their KSS3 design in smaller version.

Clearly they prepared this for export market. As their own KSS3, they are showing their 2nd batch with missile silos for cruise missiles and lithium batteries.
They are going to what Soryu did with Japanese Navy. No mention in here on potential using this design for SSN, but if they choose to the design of KSS3 have potential on that.
 
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