Russian Air Force News & Discussion

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Fighter-interceptor MiG-31s "covered" Il-38 on Kamchatka- I haven't heard of this kind of MiG-31 employment before & suspect that they may be going to deploy them abroad together & thus this training. Where? Possibly Vietnam, Philippines, & China.
Before this Ukraine business took a nasty left turn, there was talk of Il-38s operating out of the French base in Djibouti though it never went further then talk. Given the current climate, it's hard to see where and why they would bother. Given that Russia only has a handful of relatively modern Il-38Ns, they can't effectively patrol Russian nuke-sub deployment areas.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
They've got 7 of them now, & up to 28 total may be delivered; IL-114 MPA is also in the works. The PLAN ASW capability isn't adequate yet & these deployments could give them more opportunities for honing skills in a hot spot.
The Il-114 project is just a hypothetical. Originally they were looking at the Tu-204 as the carrier with something closer to the USN P-8s for the end product. Now it's hard to say. If they just want a modern anti-submarine plane then the Il-114 might be their best bet but if they want the more advanced capabilities that the US and their allies have, then the Il-114 might be too small. Looking at the route they've taken with the Tu-214R certainly offers some insight. Though as it stands the Il-18 family will remain in service for quite a while. Not only is the VMF upgrading their fleet but the VVS is getting a new EW/EA bird under the OKR Prorubschik that's based on the Il-18.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
The 1st Tu-160m2 is already in the construction phase.
The MOD is considering decommissioning of Tu-154, Tu-134 and Il-62M. They have total ~4 Tu-154s, 45 Tu-134s, can't find numbers for Il-62M, probably not more than~4-6.
Absent from this list are ~5 IL-18, (after 1 recently crashed). If they go ahead, it'll be a gradual process to replace them all.
They have 14 Tu-154B, 7 Tu-154M, 36 Tu-134s, and 9 Il-62Ms. And I find the decision to produce the Tu-214 for the VVS quite questionable. They should honestly get the new MS-21. The plane needs a starting order far more then the rather old Tu-214 needs a continued production run.

МиниÑтерÑтво обороны РоÑÑии планирует закупки новы¿Ð°ÑÑажирÑких Ñамолетов - bmpd
 

Haavarla

Active Member
There are budgetary constraints in play, especially as it's become obvious that the PAK-FA is being significantly delayed. There's also a huge existing Su-25 fleet that's in decent shape and can be upgraded. The Su-25SM3, by the way, is not "1 or 2 prototypes". A number of squadrons have been equipped with them, by upgrading their existing airframes.

Yes i think its budget related as well.
And as you say, VKS has enough Su-25's in their inventory as it is.
They will fly for a long time, build as they are.

I was refering to Ulan-Ade new build Su-25SM3, not upgraded ones.
I'm pretty sure they will do some cheap upgrades shortly.

I believe Su-25SM3 being used in Syria, over Ragga and Palmyra now.
 

Haavarla

Active Member
Some dramatic Тu-160 footage. If need be, some older ones could be modified as interceptors- it has the range, loitering ability (33.06), weapon capacity & speed to augment the aging MiG-31s. Tupolev already had developed the Tu-128, still the largest interceptor in the world. Regarding the RuAF transports, it'll take many years to replace all those 67 TUs & ILs w/o any new money.

There was some concept of a Tu-161 or some other designation.. it was a missile carrier Interceptor, to be used against strategical bombers.

That concept got tossed.
There are as you know, only 16 Tu-160 in service now. We might see a few more with the Tu-160M2, but eighter way the number are so low that VKS need every airframe they can get for NC deterence mission.
 
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Haavarla

Active Member
The Tu-22M's got mudded in the START agreement. They are not allowed to do any Air refueling. It shorten the operation range drastic. You can't do a lot of AB dashes, before Bingo fuel.

If you do some research on Tu-22M. Its practically build around its main weapons.Kh-22. The W-bays are quite small which leave the Bomber quite bad at performing other missions. You could stuff 12 KUB-500 in it and that is it.

Just the same, putting AIM on it would not be a good idea.
The missile truck concept was looked at by both US and Russia. It was not worth it.
 

Tsavo Lion

Banned Member
Even a re-designated Tu-22M that isn't a bomber anymore can't get a refueling probe? Still, it could get pylons added on wings like on VGW Su-22 (4.13), plus center line stations & drop tanks. The AAMs are not as heavy as ALCMs & bombs, so the fuel burn is going to be a lot less. Just a thought!
 

Haavarla

Active Member
Maybe i wasn't clear enough.
Both US and Soviet/Russia shelved the Missile truck concept due to cost issue or Cost issue connected with desired performance.

And especial with Russia, as they have to be very mindfull about which kind of capability they should focus on. This is strictly funding talking.

Russia can't afford just launching every paper concept in order to test it.
They have to take these hard decisions on what is doable and sober in a very early phase, when its on the drawing board most of the time.

In short, using a Tu-22M for a Missile truck mission would be horrendous expensive in term of flight hour cost.
You would need to fly them regulary for training purpose.
 

Haavarla

Active Member
The last Blinder flew some 5 years ago.
It was just an historical flight, not a mission flight.
They are long gone now. Recycled.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
I wonder, what happened to all those Tu-22 Blinders? If any still intact, theoretically, aside from the economics, could they be improved & modified for interceptor role? They don't have VGW & IMO could well be. I found this old airshow video clip of it: So tÃ*i bay thấp - Tu-22 Blinder khiến Su-30LL phải kÃ*nh nể
Nice picture for comparison
They're in scrapyard condition. Unfortunately Russia threw away much of it's Soviet inheritance when it came to more complex technologies.
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Even a re-designated Tu-22M that isn't a bomber anymore can't get a refueling probe? Still, it could get pylons added on wings like on VGW Su-22 (4.13), plus center line stations & drop tanks. The AAMs are not as heavy as ALCMs & bombs, so the fuel burn is going to be a lot less. Just a thought!
it would be useful if you paused a bit before posting. eg Havaarla (and then Feanor) gave you more than a clue re this subject issue
 

Todjaeger

Potstirrer
I wonder, what happened to all those Tu-22 Blinders? If any still intact, theoretically, aside from the economics, could they be improved & modified for interceptor role? They don't have VGW & IMO could well be. I found this old airshow video clip of it: So tÃ*i bay thấp - Tu-22 Blinder khiến Su-30LL phải kÃ*nh nể
Nice picture for comparison
As GF mentioned, pause and consider an idea before posting it. Doing so can help prevent attempts to resurrect a dismissed or dead end concept.

Consider for a moment the suggestions to convert high speed bomber/strike aircraft into fighter/interceptors. The platform characteristics which made a particular design fit for one role, often do not fit for a completely different type of role. Especially when the base design is from a generation+ ago.

For example, an interceptor needs more than just high speed and the ability to carry ordnance to be effective as an interceptor. The ability to detect and target whatever is being intercepted is also required. Now with some expensive redesign and development work, a fighter radome could be mounted in the nose or some other area of a bomber, but IMO it would not be worthwhile. The enormous signature of such a large aircraft would likely be detected by hostile forces prior to the converted bomber getting into range to detect whatever it was supposed to intercept. This situation gets even worse if the goal is to have an interceptor for use vs. modern forces. Offboard sensoring systems like AEW and possibly even ground- or space-based radar systems could cue hostile fighters either away from the converted bombers, or provide approach vectors which are outside of the interceptor's detection range/view. If the interceptor is supposed to be positioned to stop inbound strike packages, a similar situation exists. The converted bomber needs to be able to detect the strike package. Given the increasing numbers of small (vs. aircraft size) LO standoff munitions entering service, one of these converted bombers could be physically present to perform an intercept, but be unable to do so because it cannot detect the strike package, and/or it is in the wrong position to respond. With modern air forces fielding aircraft which have had some RCS reduction done, as well as LO fighters soon to enter service, this problem just get worse.

IMO Russia would be much better off devoting more resources into detection capabilities, AND comms/datalinks to share and relay information. In modern air warfare, situational awareness is crucial, and the kinematic performance of a platform is less important than how the platform fits into the overall battlespace. The fastest, most maneuverable, most heavily armed fighter is useless if the pilot is blind and deaf to what is around them.
 

Tsavo Lion

Banned Member
Fine, Blinders are history. But why can't Badgers /H-6s (many are still in storage), Backfires, & Bears be directed by OHRs &/ regular ground radars/AWACs to defend against CMs, AEW/ACs & tankers using longer range AAMs? Then their detection by strike packages won't be a limiting factor.
 
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