RSN capabilities

[SGMilitary]

Quotation from Singapore's Defence Minister 2011 budget speech:



Hence, Singapore will be building new ships. I think they will be in the 1000-2000 ton class range. The trend over the years is that the RSN has been building bigger ships but with increased automation resulting in reduced manpower. The <450 ton Seawolf missile gun boats for instance were replaced by the 3200 ton Formidable frigates.

Thanks for your input RED.

I do agree with you that the 11 PV will be replace by 12 stealth OPV which was displayed during Euronaval.

There is also news that the RSN will be selling two of her Endurance 140 LPD and procure Endurance 160 HLD which is rumoured to have the capability to support the RSAF future jet procurement F-35 jets.

I'm still curious about the MCV? Will they be replaced with extended version of Formidable stealth FFG?

I read an article from SPACE wars quite sometime back that the RSN is building a blue water capability.

With Vietnam recent acquisition of 6 KILO class submarines, more S70B will be procured and analyst are expecting the RSN to procure 4 Type A26 submarine from Sweden to complement the 2 Archer class.

Any comments?

 

[SGMilitary]

Thanks for your input RED.

I do agree with you that the 11 PV will be replace by 12 stealth OPV which was displayed during Euronaval.

There is also news that the RSN will be selling two of her Endurance 140 LPD and procure Endurance 160 HLD which is rumoured to have the capability to support the RSAF future jet procurement F-35 jets.

I'm still curious about the MCV? Will they be replaced with extended version of Formidable stealth FFG?

I read an article from SPACE wars quite sometime back that the RSN is building a blue water capability.

With Vietnam recent acquisition of 6 KILO class submarines, more S70B will be procured and analyst are expecting the RSN to procure 4 Type A26 submarine from Sweden to complement the 2 Archer class.

Any comments?

Any update on the RSAF procurement plan for P-3C Orion MPA?
What about plans to buy more S-70B and Fearless class PV?
Our neighbour procured Gowind class LCS.
Are our navy procuring 12 X 80 meters stealth OPV as replacement plus another 6 improved Formidable FFG to replace MCV in the next 5-10 years?
What about the rumoured 2 X Endurance 160 LHD with strengthened deck to support the RSAF future procurement of F-35 VTOL? & the plan selling off of 2 of Endurance 140 LPD to Chilean Navy?
Any comments gentlemen?

 

[SASWanabe]

i havnt heard about any of those before, do you have any links?

 

[SGMilitary]

i havnt heard about any of those before, do you have any links?

My apology, I do not have any links but the information were extracted from various defense forums albeit there is no affirmation to it.

Best Regards.

 

[gary1910]

i havnt heard about any of those before, do you have any links?

Pure specualtion atm but there is some basis for it.

It was reported from Janes that Chile is looking for 2 2nd hand LPDs, French, Italian and Singapore navies are all offering their current LPD to Chile.

So SG milnuts started to put 2 to 2 together and come up with the speculation.

DEFENSE STUDIES: Singapore Offers LPD for Chilean Navy

 

[swerve]

Chile was originally looking for a new ship or ships, & had solicited offers, e.g. from Damen Schelde. IIRC the Chileans only started looking at second hand LPDs when an inspection showed their old ex-USN LST needed more work to keep it operational than they thought worth paying for (sound familiar?), & was therefore retired suddenly, at about the same time as France, the UK & Italy decided to put used LSDs/LPDs with years of life left in them on the market.

 

[SGMilitary]

Chile was originally looking for a new ship or ships, & had solicited offers, e.g. from Damen Schelde. IIRC the Chileans only started looking at second hand LPDs when an inspection showed their old ex-USN LST needed more work to keep it operational than they thought worth paying for (sound familiar?), & was therefore retired suddenly, at about the same time as France, the UK & Italy decided to put used LSDs/LPDs with years of life left in them on the market.

IAI to adapt G550 for maritime surveillance role
By Arie Egozi

Israel Aerospace Industries is offering a modified version of its Gulfstream G550-based conformal airborne early warning (CAEW) aircraft that has the capability to detect targets at sea and near shores.

The new version will retain the CAEW system's original airborne early warning capabilities, the company says.

"The need of many countries is to get a full picture of their sea border zone and integrate it into one big potential threat picture," says an IAI source.


© Israel Aerospace Industries

Currently used by the air forces of Israel and Singapore, the AEW-adapted G550 business jet carries a conformal dual-band active electronically scanned array radar. It also features an identification friend or foe system, electronic support measures and an integrated self-protection system, plus communications equipment designed to support network-centric operations.

Wouldn't the G550 a better choice to replace RSN Fokker 50 MPA as they provide better commonality of aircraft/spare parts/engines and systems with RSAF 4 G550 CAEW? Any comments?

Any updates on Fearless PV replacement and MCV upgrades?

 

[SGMilitary]

IAI to adapt G550 for maritime surveillance role
By Arie Egozi

Israel Aerospace Industries is offering a modified version of its Gulfstream G550-based conformal airborne early warning (CAEW) aircraft that has the capability to detect targets at sea and near shores.

The new version will retain the CAEW system's original airborne early warning capabilities, the company says.

"The need of many countries is to get a full picture of their sea border zone and integrate it into one big potential threat picture," says an IAI source.


© Israel Aerospace Industries

Currently used by the air forces of Israel and Singapore, the AEW-adapted G550 business jet carries a conformal dual-band active electronically scanned array radar. It also features an identification friend or foe system, electronic support measures and an integrated self-protection system, plus communications equipment designed to support network-centric operations.

Wouldn't the G550 a better choice to replace RSN Fokker 50 MPA as they provide better commonality of aircraft/spare parts/engines and systems with RSAF 4 G550 CAEW? Any comments?

Any updates on Fearless PV replacement and MCV upgrades?

Any relevant updates for RSN ?

 

[SGMilitary]

RSN developments

Singapore to release RFI/RFP for new generation multi purpose stealth capability 75 meters corvetted to replace Fearless class PV.
If the NG MPS MCV are replacing the Fearless PV, I'm anticipating that a larger version of our Formidable class FFG will be replacing Victory MCV in the very near future.
Are there any update on the progress of Bedok class MCMV upgrade project?
What about procuring more MM S-70B or participating in the development of new generation Swedish design SSK, the A26?
Will the RSN procure the Endurance 160 LHD?
I'm hoping for some updates.

 

[SGMilitary]

Singapore to release RFI/RFP for new generation multi purpose stealth capability 75 meters corvetted to replace Fearless class PV.
If the NG MPS MCV are replacing the Fearless PV, I'm anticipating that a larger version of our Formidable class FFG will be replacing Victory MCV in the very near future.
Are there any update on the progress of Bedok class MCMV upgrade project?
What about procuring more MM S-70B or participating in the development of new generation Swedish design SSK, the A26?
Will the RSN procure the Endurance 160 LHD?
I'm hoping for some updates.

There have been rumours that the RSN is in negotiation with DCNS on the procurement for 4 Scorpene submarines to be equipped with MESMA engines plus advance sonar systems.Anyone have any updates?
Like wise,with the ongoing naval procurement in this region,are there plans for the RSN to procure the following:
1. Additional S-70B
2. Improved & stretch version of Formidable FFG
What about the plan to build 75metres stealth corvette to replace Fearless PV,F-50 MPA replacement,progress on Bedok MCMV upgrade,UUV,USV etc?

 

[legacy]

Brahmos on Formidable

Hi fellows,

I have a few questions

1) Can the Formidable accommodate Brahmos anti-ship missile?
(Harpoon - 700kg / 5m) vs. (Brahmos 3000kg/8m)

2) If can, can the Brahmos integrate into the existing Radar system on the formidables?

Thank you and eager to hear from the experts here.

 

[Bonza]

Hi fellows,

I have a few questions

1) Can the Formidable accommodate Brahmos anti-ship missile?
(Harpoon - 700kg / 5m) vs. (Brahmos 3000kg/8m)

2) If can, can the Brahmos integrate into the existing Radar system on the formidables?

Thank you and eager to hear from the experts here.

I'm not an expert by any means, but I suspect if it were desired to fit Brahmos on the Formidable-class, it would require a hell of a lot of work, and it could potentially be incredibly impractical due to size/weight issues. You'd need to have a very good reason to do this - Brahmos is absolutely enormous and I'm not sure what sort of scenario would favour the cost/benefit of a Brahmos refit as opposed to retaining the Harpoon...

I assume the Brahmos could be integrated on to the existing radar system but I don't know how complicated and/or costly it would be. Possibly very.

Personally I think it would make a lot more sense to continue use of the Harpoon, and replace it when something more advanced comes along with far less demanding weight and space requirements than Brahmos.

 

[legacy]

I'm not an expert by any means, but I suspect if it were desired to fit Brahmos on the Formidable-class, it would require a hell of a lot of work, and it could potentially be incredibly impractical due to size/weight issues. You'd need to have a very good reason to do this - Brahmos is absolutely enormous and I'm not sure what sort of scenario would favour the cost/benefit of a Brahmos refit as opposed to retaining the Harpoon...

I assume the Brahmos could be integrated on to the existing radar system but I don't know how complicated and/or costly it would be. Possibly very.

Personally I think it would make a lot more sense to continue use of the Harpoon, and replace it when something more advanced comes along with far less demanding weight and space requirements than Brahmos.

Thanks Bonza, logical. Then what other supersonic long range contender out there? Probably not. Unless the RSN embarked on a new frigate squadron base on the INS Talwar frigate with its own VLS housing the Brahmos but then again how to integrate this squadron with the existing Euro-American systems? The need for extended range anti-ship missiles to cover beyond our EEZ along our SLOC. I also think its too radical an idea to go brahmos. A super sonic ER Euro-USA missile would do nice but maybe still a few years away. No fish, prawn would do LOL, maybe a subsonic ER like the up and coming RBS15 mk4 would do fine. But ideally it is still best to wait for the next generation of ER harpoon system compatible missile.

Another question please - can the MdCN ER version of the naval SCALP do anti-ship role?

Thank you for enlightening.

 

[legacy]

Hi fellow naval enthusiasts,

I have further questions:
1) Can the formidable expand its VLS silos from 32 to 48?

2) is the formidable deep enough to install the A-70 sylver to fire the Aster 30 block 2?

3) how effective is the current version of the Aster 30 against medium range ballistic missile ?

Once again thank you for sharing your thoughts.

 

[RobWilliams]

Another question please - can the MdCN ER version of the naval SCALP do anti-ship role?

There is no MdCN ER, MdCN is the SCALP - Naval and considering the operational range of MdCN is 1000km+ why on earth would you want an ER version in terms of ASuW?

 

[OPSSG]

Hi fellows,

I have a few questions

1) Can the Formidable accommodate Brahmos anti-ship missile?
(Harpoon - 700kg / 5m) vs. (Brahmos 3000kg/8m)

2) If can, can the Brahmos integrate into the existing Radar system on the formidables?

Thank you and eager to hear from the experts here.

Warning issued.

Stop posting imaginary <pet weapon> discussions in an existing thread on a navy (or endless hypothetical weapons fits on a small 3200 ton frigate). Stop with the off-topic thread pollution, about imagined capabilities. Please focus on the possible, within the realm of reason (and having done some basic research on your part). You will not be able to post links until your post count goes up but that should not preclude you from citing sources by typing the article title, publication, author and page number to show us you have a serious interest in discussing these topics.

If you want to start new threads on imagined topics that others can choose to ignore or respond, please feel free to go ahead to start a new thread. Sorry about the harsh Mod tone, as we have had to issue warnings to quite a few new members in the Philippine navy and air force threads (for talking about imaginary wish list rubbish). The Mod Team enforces standards and we must be somewhat fair across threads, to keep them on topic and grounded.

There is some reserve margin in the Formidable class for growth but that margin is limited, such as, a 7 ton crane to launch additional RHIBs or additional harpoon missiles (up to 24 harpoon missiles for each Formidable class ship). More so with limited top-weight growth and limited space issue for the Formidable Class with a large missile system (like the Brahmos, with limited utility for the RSN and the additional logistics). The missile deck is a good place to add systems without having to consider stability issues. But if the centre of buoyancy cannot counteract the downward force of the centre of gravity, there is a possibility that you can have a capsizing moment and the impact of increased hull immersion. Further, on board systems alone can't take advantage of the greater range of this missile.

At RIMPAC, the Formidable class has an ungraded decoy system that has not been declassified. If you want to speculate about that development in this thread, it will be permitted in this thread. RSS Intrepid's recent deployment under CTF-151 has also seen the integration of the Scaneagle in this class (on top of the MINDEF announced Victory class updates).

More off-topic posts like this in an existing thread on the RSN and we would provide admin sanctions.

 

[legacy]

There is no MdCN ER, MdCN is the SCALP - Naval and considering the operational range of MdCN is 1000km+ why on earth would you want an ER version in terms of ASuW?

oic,
yes, me bad. SCALP/Storm Shadow has an operating range of 250km whereas the navy version - Naval SCALP, launching from A-70 VLS has a range of 1000km (Tomahawk, euro version). Both are land-attack missiles.

it seems the "free World" Navies are still watching and waiting for a better ASuW missile replacement? Supersonic, stealthy, terminal dive profile, in excess of 250km would be good. Any suggestion or potential candidate in mind?

thanks RobWilliams

cheers

 

[legacy]

ok super moderator,
this is my first foray into a milforum, absolutely no experience. When i first started reading such forums i was pleasantly surprised that such information can be readily available in the www domain (this include military of other countries). You can imagine a child in a candy store going wild. So apparently i have stepped on a land mine ! My apologies, Will adjust my sense of reality with regards to posting on this forum from now on.

Perhaps i can start a new thread on imagined systems and different hypothetical scenarios on the RSN or other navies.

 

[OPSSG]

Perhaps i can start a new thread on imagined systems and different hypothetical scenarios on the RSN or other navies.

Thanks. Your co-operation and understanding is greatly appreciated.

And by the way, you better read the Forum Rules, first (before you step on another land mine), as "this vs that" threads are also not allowed. That's a very easy mistake to make, as we run the forum here every differently from most other less moderated forums. Which is why we can keep:

(i) pilots, who fly the Teen series and attack helicopters;
(ii) black hats (tank commanders and crew men);
(iii) defence contractors (who have worked on various systems, including the AEGIS systems and the LCS);
(iv) former and current artillery officers/NCOs; and;
(v) existing and former naval officers/NCOs, including an active submarine community.​

All of which are coming back and participating, here at DT.

Edit: Once again welcome to the forum, happy posting and let us return to the topic at hand.

 

[legacy]

hi mod,

No offense taken. When i post i do pause and think am i contravening any OSA haha... but then again what i know is all available open source from the internet. As a civilian military enthusiast there is no way i can know classified stuff, i guess so far i have not created any trouble for people haha.