Royal Canadian Navy Discussions and updates

OldTex said:
"Normal" engineers design and build things that work. "Human factor" engineers design and build things so people can use the thing that works. No having to create/breed 3 armed people or people with 2 or more sets of eyes etc.
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I must work with 'Abnormal' engineers then, as they neither design and build things that work, or design and build things so people can use the things.
 
Steel has been cut for the first CCG AOPS as the navy build nears completion (6 vessels). The coast guard will get two AOPS. With export orders unlikely hopefully the CSC will get under way as the final AOPS nears completion.

www.navaltoday.com

Irving Shipbuilding cuts steel for Canadian Coast Guard’s 1st AOPS

Irving Shipbuilding has cut steel for the seventh Arctic and Offshore Patrol Ship (AOPS), the first of two for the Canadian Coast Guard’s fleet.
www.navaltoday.com www.navaltoday.com
 
Investments coming to Irving Shipyard. Hopefully the CSC project will start construction soon after.

" This investment will enhance the efficiency of ship construction while improving project costs and delivering best value for Canadians. "

"...will expand and modify their site and facilities at the Halifax Shipyard and supporting facilities at Woodside Industries and Marine Fabricators in Dartmouth, Nova Scotia. "

Canada is Providing $463M in Funding to Irving Shipbuilding for Upgrades to the Halifax Shipyard
 
shadow99 said:
Investments coming to Irving Shipyard. Hopefully the CSC project will start construction soon after.

" This investment will enhance the efficiency of ship construction while improving project costs and delivering best value for Canadians. "

"...will expand and modify their site and facilities at the Halifax Shipyard and supporting facilities at Woodside Industries and Marine Fabricators in Dartmouth, Nova Scotia. "

Canada is Providing $463M in Funding to Irving Shipbuilding for Upgrades to the Halifax Shipyard
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Curious to know what and where the upgrades will be. The Halifax location seems to be limited space wise so perhaps Dartmouth is the major beneficiary although some expensive lift upgrade to the Halifax location would require a big chunk of the money.
 
John Fedup said:
Curious to know what and where the upgrades will be. The Halifax location seems to be limited space wise so perhaps Dartmouth is the major beneficiary although some expensive lift upgrade to the Halifax location would require a big chunk of the money.
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Hmmm...

What about deepening the berths / taking up more waterfront / piling & laying foundations, to strengthen the ground, in preparation for building new hardstands / expanding the footprint of the shipyard ?
 
John Fedup said:
Curious to know what and where the upgrades will be. The Halifax location seems to be limited space wise so perhaps Dartmouth is the major beneficiary although some expensive lift upgrade to the Halifax location would require a big chunk of the money.
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The upgrades will be filling in 12 hectares of the harbor, building another syncrolift, upgrading the assembly hall and upgrading the Irving fabrication facilities across the harbor.
 
Systems Adict said:
Saw this report & thought it was worthy of placing the link here, to instigate some 'discussion'.
(Note - DISCUSSION - NOT a urination contest)

Sinking under its own weight


There are also some images of the CSC here...

LinkedIn - BAE Systems Maritime
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My first thought is that the author sounded more like a political reporter, rather than a defence reporter. One of the red flags being the notion of Canada purchasing Constellation-class frigates from the US, since that is not an option at present, as US yard are occupied filling orders for the US. Another is he seems unaware of the very different displacements intended for the two vessels, with the CSC having the greater displacement. He also seems to either be ignorant or unaware of the intention that the CSC will have both CMS330 and Aegis.

When all that gets put together, it suggests to me that the author is writing about a subject on which he has an opinion, but does not actually know what he is writing about.
 
I really hope the CSC doesn’t fall off the rails. Canadian modifications to the T26 design are probably less intensive than for the Hunter class version but certainly the cost is increasing to the point where 15 ships won’t happen, especially if the RCN wants 8 SSKs.
 
Todjaeger said:
My first thought is that the author sounded more like a political reporter, rather than a defence reporter. One of the red flags being the notion of Canada purchasing Constellation-class frigates from the US, since that is not an option at present, as US yard are occupied filling orders for the US. Another is he seems unaware of the very different displacements intended for the two vessels, with the CSC having the greater displacement. He also seems to either be ignorant or unaware of the intention that the CSC will have both CMS330 and Aegis.

When all that gets put together, it suggests to me that the author is writing about a subject on which he has an opinion, but does not actually know what he is writing about.
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Also to me it is clearly a poltical piece more than a tecnical one. But it is intereting how there are more and more voices.

Back during the selection there was just one main pro -FREMM voice the same one that also voiced the C27 vs C-235 competition problems. I forgot the name but it was clearly an Euro lobbyist journalist.

Now a fast search and you get multiple journalist with the same vibe.
 
Meriv90 said:
Also to me it is clearly a poltical piece more than a tecnical one. But it is intereting how there are more and more voices.

Back during the selection there was just one main pro -FREMM voice the same one that also voiced the C27 vs C-235 competition problems. I forgot the name but it was clearly an Euro lobbyist journalist.

Now a fast search and you get multiple journalist with the same vibe.
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Everything Canada is political when it comes to defence. The journalist writes for the National Post, a rightist paper and pro-defence. The problem is really junior. His minions simply can't explain how they define the cost let alone what the actual cost will be. This just makes it incredibly easy to criticise CSC, rightly or wrongly. Social and economic pressures, largely created by junior, could force defence cuts but there is an increasing awareness amongst some of the electorate here that these cuts are no longer viable. The next election will see huge Liberal promises to fix health care and increase funding for housing with money they don't have. Liberals fooled voters last time with promises they couldn't deliver....except for legal marijuana.
 
shadow99 said:
The PBO, Parliamentary budget office puts out a detailed costing report of the CSC Project yearly, including mid-life refit costs, to disposal at end of life.
I'll see if I can find a link.
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The reports are only as good as the data going in. I don’t trust anything coming out of Ottawa. Do you think the COVID costs are properly accounted for? I don’t, just like junior’s vacation expenses.
 
John Fedup said:
The reports are only as good as the data going in. I don’t trust anything coming out of Ottawa. Do you think the COVID costs are properly accounted for? I don’t, just like junior’s vacation expenses.
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Agreed on not trusting anything coming out of Ottawa.

Here is the link to the PDF for those interested YN5-253-2022-eng.pdf (publications.gc.ca) from Oct 27,2022

Of note-
Acquisition costs of $80.2 billion
Operations and sustainment $219.8
Total including development and disposal costs of $306.0 billion

If were lucky we will see 3 CSC built followed by a second class of "cheaper" ships. Only time will tell, but the track record of Canadian pollies to mess things up is extremely high.
 
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