Royal Canadian Navy Discussions and updates

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40 deg south

Well-Known Member
Halifax-class Modernization/ Frigate Life Extension (HCM/FELEX) - Canada News Centre

On time and under budget: Government of Canada marks major milestone in a multi-billion dollar defence procurement - Canada News Centre

Notwithstanding the many issues around Canada's defense procurement processes, the Halifax modernisation seems to have proceeded without major screw-ups? Or is that simple government spin?

I hope not, as NZ's ANZACs will be going through a very similar upgrade starting mid-2017. Given the approx six-month delay in the NZ programme, I hope Seaspan isn't going to lose too many key workers.
 
John Fedup

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
Both SeaSpan and the government are to blame for this delay. Clearly, the CCG needs icebreakers long before 2023. Even if Davie starts building some kind interim icebreaker, it wouldn't be floating anytime soon and they are still working on the Resolve. Any reasonable person would now opt for a foreign build for the heavy icebreaker as SeaSpan will either still be building the Queenstons in 2023 or they will be bankrupt. Given the increasing cost of living in Vancouver and the lower Fraser Valley, I don't see how SeaSpan can keep costs in line for their ships.
 
N

Novascotiaboy

Active Member
John

I have questioned the cost of living issue of the lower mainland myself. How can trades people afford to live close to the yard.

The two sisters to the Cecon Pride as well as the Aiviq are Davies CCG solution for the interim along with other existing under utilized offshore support ships.

Once the Resolve AOR hits the water the proof will be in the pudding and Seaspan chances of getting underway will be nil on the Queenston pair. I am saying now we will see the Libtards cancel them and opt for two more Resolve AORs. At least a $billion in up front savings and one extra vessel.
 
N

Novascotiaboy

Active Member
John

Regarding your post under the RCAF thread.

I was aware of the development of these weapons systems. China is pushing their development to allow them to kill American carriers at range.

If they perfect these weapons no countermeasures will exist that can defeat them primarily due to their speed. Like an attack on a ship with a heavyweight torepedoe the end result will be devastating.
 
S

STURM

Well-Known Member
To cause damage the Chinese will first have to locate the carrier group; which will be doing its best to remain undetected. The carrier group will also have various means - soft and hard kills - to defend itself. There's been a lot of hype regarding these supersonic 'carrier killers'' but whether they actually work is the question.
 
John Fedup

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
Indeed, whether they work is a question but given the efforts by all the majors in this area it seems these hypersonic missiles will likely happen at some point. ECM can only do so much. Railguns and lasers would be valuable anti-missile solutions which is the reason I favour a big gas turbine(s) along with big diesels for our future CSC ships. The extra power will be a good investment for protecting a $1.5-2 billion vessel. Replacement money for a lost ship will be hard to find.
 
John Fedup

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
@nova. I fear your predictions will pan out. I think Seaspan realizes this and BC's opposition to Northern Gateway means Alberta and Saskatchewan won't be crying any rivers for a BC shipyard being screwed by central Canada even when a Quebec shipyard is going to benefit.
 
N

Novascotiaboy

Active Member
Like everything in life. Follow the money.

Paying a premium for a ship building industry is one thing. Paying a Kings ransom for a pair of supply ships is foolish. Davie may have found a way to keep its yard busy and save tax payers money in one shot. The fact that the navy will get its ships faster is only a bonus. With four identical hulls available I won't be surprised to see the other three acquired by Davie and at least three built for Canada as AORs and the fourth available for export or conversion to a foreign affairs funded relief ship as has been proposed by various Canadian defence publications.
 
H

hauritz

Well-Known Member
John Fedup said:
Indeed, whether they work is a question but given the efforts by all the majors in this area it seems these hypersonic missiles will likely happen at some point. ECM can only do so much. Railguns and lasers would be valuable anti-missile solutions which is the reason I favour a big gas turbine(s) along with big diesels for our future CSC ships. The extra power will be a good investment for protecting a $1.5-2 billion vessel. Replacement money for a lost ship will be hard to find.
Click to expand...
Could be a major factor in why there is a lot more emphasis on submarines these days.

A combination of long range hypersonic missiles, satellites and unmanned surveillance aircraft could make for very short and exciting lives for surface ships in the coming decades.
 
gf0012-aust

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
John Fedup said:
Indeed, whether they work is a question but given the efforts by all the majors in this area it seems these hypersonic missiles will likely happen at some point. ECM can only do so much. Railguns and lasers would be valuable anti-missile solutions which is the reason I favour a big gas turbine(s) along with big diesels for our future CSC ships. The extra power will be a good investment for protecting a $1.5-2 billion vessel. Replacement money for a lost ship will be hard to find.
Click to expand...
I worked with mil scientists on hypersonics 8 years ago, and the progress was raising expectations (to an unreasonable level IMO)

I've worked on 3 different classes of subs and have been fortunate to have worked on projects involving USV and UAS.

I'd said it before and I will say it again - a single sub causes the single greatest force dislocation for any enemy over any other asset fieded, there is a reason why the shift by a raft of countries has been to go back to subs
 
John Fedup

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
gf0012-aust said:
I'd said it before and I will say it again - a single sub causes the single greatest force dislocation for any enemy over any other asset fieded, there is a reason why the shift by a raft of countries has been to go back to subs
Click to expand...
There has been zero mention of future subs for the RCN. Hardly surprising given the current government has the same mindset as that abomination Chrétien who gave the RCN a take them or get out of sub operations option with the Victoria (Upholder) class. The bleeding heart public has been trained by our pinko media to think subs are only for first strike and don't have a clue as to their true value as per your comment above. Frankly I would half the CSC program if it is the only way to get 6-8 decent subs.
 
ASSAIL

ASSAIL

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
I know there has been some criticism around project Resolve on this forum but it seems to provide the RCN with a very capable AOR in quite a short time frame.
I would be hard pressed to find any loss of capability c.f. The Berlin Class at first glance.
There are a couple of videos on YouTube marking progress on the conversion and I apologise if these have already been posted but it appears to be running on budget and on time and seems like quite a good news event in the desert of Canadian defence procurement.

https://youtu.be/8_2_aWcd7mI
 
N

Novascotiaboy

Active Member
Here we are in 2017 now and the RCN should see two new vessels hit the water by years end. The Harry Dewolfe and the Resolve AOR.

There should also be a decision on the design of the new CSC that Irving will build.

The RCN's guiding plan is the LEADMARK 2050 document.

http://navalassoc.ca/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Leadmark-2050-13-May-2016.pdf

In this there are multiple references to a purpose modified hull for use as a Peace Support Ship. See pages 22 and 46.

IMHO this seems to point to either the Resolve iAOR or a second vessel of the same lineage modified more specifically for the purpose. The recent USN acquisition of the M/V Ocean Trader (former Craigside) is a close approximation of what the RCN is seeking.

If this happens I for one will be very pleased as it will provide a piece of the puzzle that has long been missing from the fleet.
 
John Fedup

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
I think it will be critical how well these first ships perform, especially the Dewofle. Any screw-up by Irving on this will likely cause a pause in the CSC program until they prove themselves. The Resolve AOR project is minimal risk and realistically there is no alternative.
 
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