Royal Canadian Navy Discussions and updates

[hauritz]

Canadian Resolve-class oiler refit proceeding on course | IHS Jane's 360

Positive noises about the stop-gap plan to produce an oiler.

I read the estimated cost of this interim solution would be $700 million over 7 years which will cost $300 million just for the conversion. And this ship will probably only serve a few years until the $2.6 billion JSS project is completed

New Zealand is getting a brand new ice hardened tanker for around $500 million. Australia is getting a couple of Cantabria tankers for around $600 million a piece. The tide class is costing the British around a billion for 4 ships.

Had Canada bit the bullet early on it could have already built a couple of new tankers in Korea or Spain and saved themselves an absolute fortune.

 

[ngatimozart]

Had Canada bit the bullet early on it could have already built a couple of new tankers in Korea or Spain and saved themselves an absolute fortune.

Ah but that implies logical defence acquisition practices which is an alien concept in Canadian defence and govt circles. Sometimes I wonder who has the better defence acquisition systems and practices - Canada or India.

 

[John Fedup]

I'm leaning towards India even when you factor in the Indian corruption issues.

 

[John Fedup]

Here's a link from Canadian Defence Review which gives an account of the government's mis-step on its gag-order in regards to the CSC design tender. There is also an interesting comment about the combat systems integrator. Each bidder requires this. Irving teamed with Lockheed-Martin for the Halifax modernization program. BAE has teamed with LM so this explains why other bidders are pissed with the government allowing BAE to bid the Type 26, which in their opinion doesn't meet the proven design requirement. This explains why some think the RCN favours the Type 26.

Government Drops RFP for CSC Amid Confusion and Lack of Information - News - Canadian Defence Review

 

[John Fedup]

I just had a quick look at an article about the Resolve class in Canadian Defence Review. It seems to imply that due to changing priorities brought about by the loss of both RCN replenishment ships and Seaspan's delay in the modernization of its shipyard that the JSS project is in doubt and Davie may end up building additional Resolve class vessels. Pricing seems to be an issue as well. Seaspan's OFSV project is well beyond its budget. A further complication is the urgent need for a heavy ice breaker. By going with the Resolve build by Davie, the icebreaker could be build instead of the JSS ships. Upon completion, SeaSpan could advance the coast guard's requirement for new offshore patrol vessels. The claimed benefits of all this are better pricing for the AORs (more in line with what OZ, NZ and the UK are paying) and the urgent requirements should arrive sooner. The negatives are political backlash in BC and SeaSpan will likely be pissed. Giving naval work to a province that is constantly threatening to leave the country doesn't sit well with me. Unfortunately, it may be the only solution (other than foreign outsourcing).

 

[40 deg south]

Canada Widens the Aperture in Search Of New Warships

Looks as if Canada is prepared to allow a bid from BAE for the T-26, presumably meaning other designs that are still on paper will also be eligible.

 

[John Fedup]

Canada Widens the Aperture in Search Of New Warships

Looks as if Canada is prepared to allow a bid from BAE for the T-26, presumably meaning other designs that are still on paper will also be eligible.

No, only pre-qualified bidders but The Canadian government did bend the proven design rule for them. See my earlier comment, # 484.

 

[Novascotiaboy]

HMCS Vancouver and its embarked Sea King have been directed south from Auckland to assist assist in disaster relief operations off the south island town of Kaikoura along with Australian and US navy assets.

The Royal New Zealand Navy had planned its 75th anniversary celebrations with a fleet review Thursday. The 7.8 magnitude earthquake struck Monday morning NZ time.

These four vessels bring four very valuable medium lift helicopters to assist in moving people and supplies into the devastated areas.

 

[ngatimozart]

HMCS Vancouver and its embarked Sea King have been directed south from Auckland to assist assist in disaster relief operations off the south island town of Kaikoura along with Australian and US navy assets.

The Royal New Zealand Navy had planned its 75th anniversary celebrations with a fleet review Thursday. The 7.8 magnitude earthquake struck Monday morning NZ time.

These four vessels bring four very valuable medium lift helicopters to assist in moving people and supplies into the devastated areas.

It's greatly appreciated and many thanks. BZ RCN. I lived through the Christchurch quakes and know what the people in Kaikoura and the surrounding area are going through. We also think that the JMSDF and Republic of Singapore Navy ships are on the way south as well.

 

[John Fedup]

Here is an article describing Irving's perceived bias in favour of BAE. Win a competition for sustainment on a different project and that should bar a company on a new project? Don't think so. In any event the Government appointed the shipyard and they will have the ultimate say in which design/systems integrator team gets to build the CSC. If the Type 26 wins, I don't think too many sailors in the RCN would be disappointed with that outcome, if any.

Irving accused of conflict as it teams with company bidding on Canada’s multibillion-dollar warship program | National Post

 

[hauritz]

Here is an article describing Irving's perceived bias in favour of BAE. Win a competition for sustainment on a different project and that should bar a company on a new project? Don't think so. In any event the Government appointed the shipyard and they will have the ultimate say in which design/systems integrator team gets to build the CSC. If the Type 26 wins, I don't think too many sailors in the RCN would be disappointed with that outcome, if any.

Irving accused of conflict as it teams with company bidding on Canada’s multibillion-dollar warship program | National Post

When does Canada officially select a design?

Australia plans to make its final selection for a new frigate in 2018.

I wonder whether or not Canada and Australia will be swapping notes during the selection process.

 

[vonnoobie]

When does Canada officially select a design?

Australia plans to make its final selection for a new frigate in 2018.

I wonder whether or not Canada and Australia will be swapping notes during the selection process.

I have to wonder if Australia would even bother taking with Canada seeing as they arent a reliable defence partner in terms of acquisitions. Tje one time we sent off an offer to work with them ( re Collins class submarines) we received no reply, since then the state of affairs has only gotten worse so no idea why we would want to get our selves involved with a government where there is no bipartisan support on the issue.

Regards, VN.

 

[StingrayOZ]

When does Canada officially select a design?

Australia plans to make its final selection for a new frigate in 2018.

I wonder whether or not Canada and Australia will be swapping notes during the selection process.

I wouldn't think so. Australia and Canada seem to really want different things. I am sure both have been following the Type 26 program with keen interest and Im sure the UK will tell them anything they want to know.

 

[John Fedup]

When does Canada officially select a design?

Australia plans to make its final selection for a new frigate in 2018.

I wonder whether or not Canada and Australia will be swapping notes during the selection process.

The design tender closes mid 2017. As for swapping notes, nothing likely formal but views are probably shared. The first ship is required in 2024 so a formal PO will have to be issued before the decade ends.

 

[John Fedup]

I have to wonder if Australia would even bother taking with Canada seeing as they arent a reliable defence partner in terms of acquisitions.

Regards, VN.

I am sure the RCN and RAN discuss naval technology but there is no way Australia would ever entertain joint acquisition stuff with Canada and given our military procurement record, that is pretty understandable. Nuff said on that!

 

[rjtjrt]

Probably not necessary to say but I will just to get it clear.
I don't think anyone has anything but the greatest respect for Canadian services and their members.
A thoroughly professional and impressive military in terms of the men and women.
They do a lot with what their government deems to gives them.

 

[Novascotiaboy]

It's been a year since Project Resolve has been underway. Federal Fleet Services did a great video back in the spring about the ship and the status of the conversion. Does anyone have any current information?

There are dribs and drabs on blogs that postulate on the likely acquisition of further conversions in place of the planned Queenston class. If Jr does as many feel he will and cancel the Seaspan contract for the supply ships and give David the go ahead for additional conversions the cost savings will be on the surface very significant. Even at $700 million per ship, based on the reported figures for the Asterix, that's half to a third as much as what is being reported for each of the two Queenstons.

With a total of three similar sister ships available Davie could realistically refit all four hulls in a space of 5 years or less. Twice as many hulls in the water than what is planned for just slightly more than one Queenston.

I am no fan of Davie or of Quebec but this is a very interesting option that needs to be explored. Based on the published specifications the Resolve class vessels have more capability than the modified Berlin or Bonn class.

Three identical conversions and the fourth set up more as a logistical hub, sea base would allow a great deal of flexibility in future overseas deployments.

 

[John Fedup]

I am no fan of Davey either. The only possible way to cancel the Queenston class would be to give Seaspan a second heavy icebreaker. Even that might not be sufficient to cover the political blowback from BC ( and the other Western provinces). Approving Notherngateway and 2 icebreakers, that might.

 

[Novascotiaboy]

So Kimber Morgan got approved. Now it's just a matter of time before Seaspan looses the supply ships and Davie gets them. As too the likelihood of a second Polar ice breaker I can't see that happening as Davie will likely get the nod to lease or sell the Aiviq to the CCG as a replacement for the Louis St Laurant.

Having spent the last five years supporting companies refitting a variety of CCG ships based out of Halifax I can attest to the deplorable state past governments have left the CCG fleet in. Like the RCN but worse the once mighty CCG fleet is rotted out. It's past rust out.

 

[John Fedup]

Hard to say what will happen. If the Queenstons are cancelled, Seaspan really would need the second icebreaker to happen and this would be good for Liberals as the Kimber Morgan line isn't popular in the GVA. Saving jobs in this area would be an offset to that. Seaspan's slow yard upgrade hasn't helped their cause. Frankly the Davie icebreaker should proceed as well given the sad state the CCG is in.