Redlands18
Well-Known Member
The RAN certainly were not interested in Sea Slug in 1960, even going as far as looking at fitting Tartar to new build County's.
Royal Canadian Navy Discussions and updates
- Thread starter stephen weist
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Git_Kraken
Active Member
As @Pusser01 pointed out it was tried by a number of navies. It is heavily dependant on sea state, winds and risk assumption. For the RCN you are almost never going to have sea states even remotely close to being able to do something like that safely. They tried it with the 280s and discarded it relatively quickly.
Even lining up a canister to fit into a VLS on a windy day is a PITA. Doing it while both the supplying and receiving ships are moving? Not something I would want to ask my team to do outside of an emergency.
If you're happy with a dedicated CAMM launcher, then you should be able to save a useful amount of weight & complexity. There's no need for efflux control. The cold launch eject thing weighs something, but it seems to take up less space & be simpler than the efflux control stuff (though don't take my word for it).
ExLS looks like a replacement for the old self-defence Mk 41, with a version that sits inside a Mk 41 cell & can hold 4 CAMM, & the three cell (12 CAMM) standalone version. The stand-alone model should be lighter per cell than a Mk 41, if only because it's not as tall as the smallest one.
The strike down cranes were fitted in some of the first VL capable Ticonderoga Class, but when they ceased to use them, or attempt to use them, they were removed.....but the VL tubes were never added in their place. The location of the crane was merely plated over. Consequently those Tico's only had 122 silos and not 128 silos (which everyone thinks they have). Personally I think they might be a 'little' more appropriate now, not for underway replenishment of mk.41...that was never a good idea (it was hard enough with Sea Dart with its built in replenishment mode with the twin arm launcher) but instead for enabling replenishment of VL's in more distributed anchorages or ports with very limited facilities, particularly in the Pacific.
As for CAMM(M) with the appropriate cranage (or other lifting solution) onboard it would be dramatically easier to actually replenish a cell. The missile is far smaller, and with 4 guys could even be manhandled into position where a simple lifting arrangement could get it vertical, fine positioning for lowering would also be a whole lot easier with a <400lb canister. As far as I am aware no-one is planning to do this however.
The USN only replenishes RAM (from the SeaRAM and Mk.49) and ESSM from the Mk.29 launchers on CVN and the Wasp/America Class at sea these days.
Git_Kraken
Active Member
The Preliminary Design phase almost complete. Good news!
Git_Kraken
Active Member
A US interest piece on the AOPS. Pretty basic stuff but it does provide new public information on how the HDW did on their counter drug operations in the Carib, the fact they carry three TEU's of disaster relief supplied as SOP on arctic missions and that a single tank of gas got them all the way through the NWP.
And of course the fact they were looking for submarines with the new TRAPS.
Canada’s ice-breaking warship in Norfolk after trip through the Arctic
And of course the fact they were looking for submarines with the new TRAPS.
Canada’s ice-breaking warship in Norfolk after trip through the Arctic
Second-hand Japanese boats could rapidly expand Australia’s submarine force | The Strategist
Australia may have a way of very cheaply and quickly expanding its submarine force, improving its defences this decade and preparing for its planned nuclear-powered boats. We might do this by buying good second-hand submarines ...
www.aspistrategist.org.au
I doubt whether the RAN would have the crewing for several 2nd hand Japanese subs plus the Collins subs as well, but then I thought that the RCN might. Considering that the current RCN subs are getting a wee bit worn out. Then I thought no that would mean "Junior" to quote @John Fedup would have to spend money on defense.
Sorry if it looks strange but I want to address this on this forum.
I was reading Navy.ca forum and found this article
It has good points.
I want to talk about these two.
Considering smaller Canadian economy, and that this is the legal FDI not all the money that truly ends up in Canada.
Lets just compare the price of housing in Canada with Italian one to see where truly Chinese influence is?
(Italy has one of the few not in bubble real estate markets, don't know why but we don't attract the chinese buyers)
The migrant remarks is even worse.
Easy to say when Canada is one of the most remote countries in the world. Meanwhile we are at the center of the world receiving influxes by literally both Asia and Africa.
This is the kind of "refugees" we are receiving, people that throws non coreligionaries to the sea thinking they are Jonah and the Whale...
Again I'm sorry for the strange post. But attack us on the FREMM, on the ship crew size (the article got it wrong), on the supposed not transparency of the offer without talking about Irving. Or the amount of VLS etc... etc....
But using political topics, putting our allegiance at doubt, or talking of refugees from the safety of Canadian geography, is just bad taste.
I was reading Navy.ca forum and found this article
It has good points.
I want to talk about these two.
This is literally a joke.
Considering smaller Canadian economy, and that this is the legal FDI not all the money that truly ends up in Canada.
Lets just compare the price of housing in Canada with Italian one to see where truly Chinese influence is?
(Italy has one of the few not in bubble real estate markets, don't know why but we don't attract the chinese buyers)
The migrant remarks is even worse.
Easy to say when Canada is one of the most remote countries in the world. Meanwhile we are at the center of the world receiving influxes by literally both Asia and Africa.
Migrants killed in 'religious clash' on Mediterranean boat
Italian police say they have arrested 15 Muslim migrants after they allegedly threw 12 Christians overboard after a row on a boat heading to Italy.
www.bbc.com
Again I'm sorry for the strange post. But attack us on the FREMM, on the ship crew size (the article got it wrong), on the supposed not transparency of the offer without talking about Irving. Or the amount of VLS etc... etc....
But using political topics, putting our allegiance at doubt, or talking of refugees from the safety of Canadian geography, is just bad taste.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
Although this is a Canadian Coast Guard (part of Fisheries and Oceans Canada) foul up, similar stuff happens throughout DND also. Hard to believe other systems weren’t evaluated before spending $10 million. Clearly a gamble was considered ok as to speeding up the procurement of a new vessel.
www.navaltoday.com
Canadian Coast Guard retires oldest serving ship after recent $10-million refit
Following 59 years of dedicated service, the Canadian Coast Guard’s oldest serving vessel, CCGS Hudson, has been decommissioned.
www.navaltoday.com
HaroldBloggins
Member
The way I understand it the stbd propulsion motor ended up having a dead ground on it that could not be corrected. To repair the motor would have it pulled and repaired. A propulsion motor could go at anytime, just bad luck. If the ship was younger and had more than 2 years life left it probably would had been repaired.Although this is a Canadian Coast Guard (part of Fisheries and Oceans Canada) foul up, similar stuff happens throughout DND also. Hard to believe other systems weren’t evaluated before spending $10 million. Clearly a gamble was considered ok as to speeding up the procurement of a new vessel.
Canadian Coast Guard retires oldest serving ship after recent $10-million refit
Following 59 years of dedicated service, the Canadian Coast Guard’s oldest serving vessel, CCGS Hudson, has been decommissioned.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
Typical idiot media article that shows Canadian media is even worse than Australian media. Our media should be sued by Australian media for plagiarism. Nice assumption that our CSC design changes produce exactly the same problems Hunters (supposedly) have. What a bunch of mutts.
ottawacitizen.com
Australian defence study warns new warships with same design to be used by Canada are unsafe
The Australian defence department assessment warned that the new Type 26 frigates will be “substantially” slower and have less range than originally intended.
ottawacitizen.com
John,
Still early days but what is your personal opinion on replacements for the Upholders? Who do you would be in a position to fulfill the requirement; the French, Germans or Swedes?
Also to the best of your knowledge was the RCN actually enthusiastic about procuring the Upholders or was it purely a political decision?
Still early days but what is your personal opinion on replacements for the Upholders? Who do you would be in a position to fulfill the requirement; the French, Germans or Swedes?
Also to the best of your knowledge was the RCN actually enthusiastic about procuring the Upholders or was it purely a political decision?
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
WRT the Upholders, purely political. Chrétien didn’t want to fund new boats leaving the RCN with the choice of used boats (they likely knew condition would be questionable) or lose submarine capability probably for all time.
Replacement has been vaguely promised in the distant future but the financial mess junior has created and continues to make worse puts into question almost all government programs and especially defence. A safe bet would be the vendor offering the best price with capability a minor concern. Unfortunately a safer bet is no replacement at all.
Well I am sure that the French would do you a good deal on their Diesel Electric variant of the Barracuda SSN. Attack Class wasn't it?
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
Even if the price was 50% of what Australia was going to pay, I doubt any government here would fund an Attack class boat.
The Upholders had been in storage for years, which probably didn't help. Canada paid for some work to be done before taking delivery (a contract between Canada & the builders) so there shouldn't have been any complaints to the RN about the condition post-delivery: complaints should have been addressed to VSEL.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
WRT storage, IIRC storage conditions were relaxed somewhat as an order was expected. Needless to say, between Chrétien’s reluctance to buy and our defence procurement inadequacy a quick sale wasn’t very quick.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
I wonder if the P-8 will still be in production by the time junior’s gang can make a decision. Doubt any future Liberal or Conservative government will do much better.
www.navalnews.com
Boeing to Offer P-8A Poseidon MPA to Canada - Naval News
Boeing today announced its intent to offer the P-8A Poseidon in response to Canada's Request for Information (RFI) for long-range maritime patrol aircraft. The Canadian Multi-Mission Aircraft (CMMA) project will replace the Royal Canadian Air Force fleet of CP-140 Aurora aircraft and enhance its...
www.navalnews.com
John Newman
The Bunker Group
My understanding is the USN placed its last order last year for 11 aircraft (9 x USN, 2 x RAAF).I wonder if the P-8 will still be in production by the time junior’s gang can make a decision. Doubt any future Liberal or Conservative government will do much better.
Boeing to Offer P-8A Poseidon MPA to Canada - Naval News
Boeing today announced its intent to offer the P-8A Poseidon in response to Canada's Request for Information (RFI) for long-range maritime patrol aircraft. The Canadian Multi-Mission Aircraft (CMMA) project will replace the Royal Canadian Air Force fleet of CP-140 Aurora aircraft and enhance its...
So it’s comes down to finishing that production lot and the remaining foreign orders on the books, Norway, South Korea, NZ and Germany.
The UK order is complete, India has its 12 P-8I (apparently they want another six, don’t know if they have been ordered or not?).
Appears to me Boing is shouting “last drinks, last orders”, sort of like when the C-17 line started to shut down, potential customers were well aware production was coming to an end.
Canada? Well what can you say?
If there is no further USN orders, then time is definitely running out, and as usual long lead item production usually starts to shutdown 1-2 years before last aircraft is delivered.
Canada, it’s time to pull the finger out!
While I expect Boeing to make a few white tails, it won't be enough for a non-customer like Canada.
his should be a clear and easy green light for Canada.
but any delay or indecisiveness will see it slip away from the posted timeframes.
dgpaapp.forces.gc.ca
his should be a clear and easy green light for Canada.
but any delay or indecisiveness will see it slip away from the posted timeframes.
Canadian Multi-Mission Aircraft - Defence Capabilities Blueprint
Canadian Multi-Mission Aircraft - Defence Capabilities Blueprint