Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates 2.0

[Todjaeger]

That German Braunschweig-class corvette is seriously armed for such a small ship. 76mm, 27mm x 2, 4 ASM, 2 RAM launchers with 42 rounds, and 34 mines with a crew of 65.
Man, that's seriously loaded for bear.
12 of them would be nice!! Lol

It does really illustrate though, both the cost and capability difference between an OPV and a corvette, or specifically a guided missile corvette that are only about 200 tonnes difference in displacement, albeit ~9 m length difference as well.

For the RAN, I would just as soon not have any corvettes in service. The German corvette has a published range of 4,000 n miles @15 knots, which means it would likely struggle to keep up with major RAN units like the frigates or destroyers, whose range is 5k to 6k n miles @18 knots. I am confident that the corvette could reach and maintain a speed of 18 knots, but would then have a range somewhat less than 4,000 n miles meaning they would need to undergo RAS and/or make fuel stops more frequently.

 

[spoz]

Plus, the design of those particular ships, while fine for somewhere like the Baltic, would be likely to struggle in the long swells experienced in our part of the world.

The range is an issue is well, although it is worth remembering that the DEs had a range of 5,200 at 12 knots, which was about 4000 at 15 knots (routing speed for the time) and a bit over 3000 at 18 knots. It was a bit of a problem, but we lived with it. Of more concern might be the 7 days endurance - that’s not Sydney to Darwin.

 

[iambuzzard]

It does really illustrate though, both the cost and capability difference between an OPV and a corvette, or specifically a guided missile corvette that are only about 200 tonnes difference in displacement, albeit ~9 m length difference as well.

For the RAN, I would just as soon not have any corvettes in service. The German corvette has a published range of 4,000 n miles @15 knots, which means it would likely struggle to keep up with major RAN units like the frigates or destroyers, whose range is 5k to 6k n miles @18 knots. I am confident that the corvette could reach and maintain a speed of 18 knots, but would then have a range somewhat less than 4,000 n miles meaning they would need to undergo RAS and/or make fuel stops more frequently.

Fair enough, but if we want an inner layer with teeth close to our region it does make sense. The destroyers, frigates and subs to keep them at arm's length with something like corvettes to catch any stragglers that get through. The Arafuras certainly have an important role to play, but with the fluid situation we find ourselves in now with no 10 year warning it does help to have an extra round in the clip.

 

[iambuzzard]

Plus, the design of those particular ships, while fine for somewhere like the Baltic, would be likely to struggle in the long swells experienced in our part of the world.

The range is an issue is well, although it is worth remembering that the DEs had a range of 5,200 at 12 knots, which was about 4000 at 15 knots (routing speed for the time) and a bit over 3000 at 18 knots. It was a bit of a problem, but we lived with it. Of more concern might be the 7 days endurance - that’s not Sydney to Darwin.

When the s*** hits the fan beggars can't be choosers.

 

[spoz]

No, but I’d rather have more Mogamis than corvettes - particularly if I have to serve in one. I’m more likely to come home.

 

[iambuzzard]

No, but I’d rather have more Mogamis than corvettes - particularly if I have to serve in one. I’m more likely to come home.

Absolutely we'd all prefer more Mogamis but do politicians care about us anymore?
Imagine a fleet with 6 AWDs, 6 Hunters and 15 Mogamis, plus unmanned missile barges!
In a perfect world we wouldn't need them, but we don't live in a perfect world.
Besides, all us rational beings on this forum want everyone to come home if it goes pear shaped.

 

[StevoJH]

It does really illustrate though, both the cost and capability difference between an OPV and a corvette, or specifically a guided missile corvette that are only about 200 tonnes difference in displacement, albeit ~9 m length difference as well.

For the RAN, I would just as soon not have any corvettes in service. The German corvette has a published range of 4,000 n miles @15 knots, which means it would likely struggle to keep up with major RAN units like the frigates or destroyers, whose range is 5k to 6k n miles @18 knots. I am confident that the corvette could reach and maintain a speed of 18 knots, but would then have a range somewhat less than 4,000 n miles meaning they would need to undergo RAS and/or make fuel stops more frequently.

Other than self control and resisting scope creep there is no reason why you couldn't take all the systems and weapons that are currently in the K-130's and putting them into a larger 2,500-3,000t hull to increase endurance. I like the K-130's, I think they are cool.

Of course if you are absolutely insane you could go the other route, and take the same hull and turn it into the Sa'ar 6, I just don't understand how they managed to fit everything into those things. I'd hate to think how survivable they are if they actually take a hit.

 

[Bob53]

So someone has activated their brain cells

I’m all for an Australian fleet but concerned at the level of subsidy it will need, how competitive it will be and how long it will take the MWU to hold a gun to the governments head

 

[old faithful]

Just came across this snippet on defence connect, not sure how creditable the site is, but there are claims that searam is being fitted to the HOBARTS.

 

[Stampede]

Absolutely we'd all prefer more Mogamis but do politicians care about us anymore?
Imagine a fleet with 6 AWDs, 6 Hunters and 15 Mogamis, plus unmanned missile barges!
In a perfect world we wouldn't need them, but we don't live in a perfect world.
Besides, all us rational beings on this forum want everyone to come home if it goes pear shaped.

The Arafura conversation is not really about comparing it to this or that,but rather acknowledging the reality that all six of them will be in service by 2029.
That’s six 80 m 1640t vessels of actual reality before we see any Hunters, Mogami , upgraded Hobarts or SSNs.
That bigger more potent navy is still a long way off into the future

Now Arafura’s potential is still limited and expectations should not be grand.
That said there is scope in the Arafura’s design to make them a greater asset than what they are today.

With our little 9 to 10 vessel fleet most of which are either old or out of the water with upgrades it seems prudent to capitalise on what you have that’s actually new and entering service.

No doubt this debate will continue as defence dangle carrots or curiosities for us to ponder.

I have a feeling Navy will ( reluctantly ) evolve this ship and would not be surprised if a couple more are added to the fleets numbers.
Ties in well with their construction timeframe and also a federal election in a couple of years time.
Or potentially maybe sooner !!!!!!!

turbulent world and all

Cheers S

 

[StingrayOZ]

If man power is similar, crewing is similar, purchase price is considered over the lifetime of the platform. Mogami every time.

It does really illustrate though, both the cost and capability difference between an OPV and a corvette, or specifically a guided missile corvette that are only about 200 tonnes difference in displacement, albeit ~9 m length difference as well.

Uprunning Arafura always comes back, I don't know why, its the wrong ship to try to up-gun into a corvette. Not just for Australia for anyone. That 10m is ultra important on a smaller ship (or any ship). That is essentially your weapon carrying capability.

The Bulgerian MMPV is based off the OPV90 (10m longer version of the OPV80). IT has 8 cell VLS, 2xtwin RB15, OTO 76mm, 35mm millennium CIWS, two torpedo launchers, decoys, an actual Hangar. 24kt and range of 3000nm@14kts. Crew of 70.

Terrible ship for Australia. May make more sense for our northern friends. Where you country is located directly next to another. Singapore has 500t corvettes with 76mm guns, missiles, etc, but they don't have a 21 day patrol endurance.