Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates 2.0

Morgo

Well-Known Member
While the Labor party make all the right public statements about the importance of AUKUS you just know that behind the scenes the rank and file doesn’t have the same level of enthusiasm.
I think that’s a generalisation. There are parts of the Labor Left (the “social” Left) that are like that (and are probably closer to the Greens) but then Pat Conroy and others like him seem to be big fans of the industrial and employment benefits of Defence spending.

The Labor Right (including the Deputy PM/Defence Minister and the Treasurer) I think are right behind it.

This upcoming tax review is going to be quite interesting in terms of coming up with a way to raise more revenue and pay for the needed / promised expenditures across Medicare / NDIS / Welfare / Defence. The pips are already squeaking.
 

MARKMILES77

Well-Known Member
Information out of the Paris Airshow reported in Flight Global.
MH-60Rs are becoming an important weapon in defending against UAVs.
Also mentioned in the same article, that the Royal Australian Navy is getting a Magnetic Anomaly Detector for it's MH-60Rs.
Have not seen this previously reported?


Flight Global
18 June 2025
Screenshot 2025-06-18 at 21.06.49.png
 

Sender

Active Member
Information out of the Paris Airshow reported in Flight Global.
MH-60Rs are becoming an important weapon in defending against UAVs.
Also mentioned in the same article, that the Royal Australian Navy is getting a Magnetic Anomaly Detector for it's MH-60Rs.
Have not seen this previously reported?


Flight Global
18 June 2025
View attachment 53049
Information on the MAD here: Sikorsky and CAE bring digital Magnetic Anomaly Detection capability to MH-60R maritime helicopters | CAE
 

I hv I on U

New Member
Hi everyone, first time contributor

Noticed recent announcement from Spanish MOD regarding the contract award for the construction of a new combat supply ship (BAC) for the Spanish Navy to Navantia (delivery 2030).

Spanish MoD green-lights construction of new combat supply ship for navy (janes.com)

Sea 1654 - Maritime Operational Support Capability originally mentioned the option for a third vessel
With the future enlargement of the RAN combat fleet, would it not be the right time now to order a third AOR from a hot production line. I realize there are current issues with the Supply class, which may put people off a third vessel of this class, but hopefully that will shortly be a thing of the past. Is there any update on their return to normal duties?
Or maybe the RAN dusts off the plans for the two multi-role sealift and support ships - Project Sea2200 Interested to hear members views
 

Antipode

Member
Hi everyone, first time contributor

Noticed recent announcement from Spanish MOD regarding the contract award for the construction of a new combat supply ship (BAC) for the Spanish Navy to Navantia (delivery 2030).

Spanish MoD green-lights construction of new combat supply ship for navy (janes.com)

Sea 1654 - Maritime Operational Support Capability originally mentioned the option for a third vessel
With the future enlargement of the RAN combat fleet, would it not be the right time now to order a third AOR from a hot production line. I realize there are current issues with the Supply class, which may put people off a third vessel of this class, but hopefully that will shortly be a thing of the past. Is there any update on their return to normal duties?
Or maybe the RAN dusts off the plans for the two multi-role sealift and support ships - Project Sea2200 Interested to hear members views
The new Cantabria class will introduce some improvements such as CIWS system, a counter-UAS system (INDRA's Crow system) and installations for the support of air, sea and submarine drones.

Reference and some data here (with in built translator)


While no specifics on the CIWS have been given, there are references to "implementation of improvements developed for the Supply class."

Plan is for the Armada to operate the Cantabria plus this evolution, alongside a dedicated oil tanker.
 

Going Boeing

Well-Known Member
With the maintenance issues being experienced with the current AOR’s, it may be worth looking at other options. If an updated sister ship to HMNZS Aotearoa was purchased for the RAN, that would provide a capability to operate in the Southern Ocean in addition to the main areas of RAN operations. As the Kiwis have had a few years of operations with the type, any issues have surfaced and can be designed out of future vessels in the class. It would also help politically to increase our defence ties with Korea.

HMNZS Aotearoa Logistics Support Vessel
 

SammyC

Well-Known Member
Hi everyone, first time contributor

Noticed recent announcement from Spanish MOD regarding the contract award for the construction of a new combat supply ship (BAC) for the Spanish Navy to Navantia (delivery 2030).

Spanish MoD green-lights construction of new combat supply ship for navy (janes.com)

Sea 1654 - Maritime Operational Support Capability originally mentioned the option for a third vessel
With the future enlargement of the RAN combat fleet, would it not be the right time now to order a third AOR from a hot production line. I realize there are current issues with the Supply class, which may put people off a third vessel of this class, but hopefully that will shortly be a thing of the past. Is there any update on their return to normal duties?
Or maybe the RAN dusts off the plans for the two multi-role sealift and support ships - Project Sea2200 Interested to hear members views
Nice to meet you and welcome.

I think there may well be a mutiny if the Government elected to procure additional Navantia AORs at the moment.

Short term (next year or so) I would expect the current issues with both ships to be resolved and the reliability restored. In time the memories will fade.

Medium term (now to about mid 2030), the fleet will remain small, so two replenishment ships is likely sufficient. I doubt we would have enough destroyers and frigates to put to sea beyond this capacity.

Longer term, with the expanded fleet coming on line next decade, the logistics would point to needing more than two replenishment ships, but it would be a mid to late 2030s requirement. I suspect this will not come into the IIP for a few more cycles.

That would put Stalwart and Supply into their latter part of life, and it may be that a new class of say four ships comes into being, the first two in the mid to late 2030s as additional, the second two in the early 2040s as replacements for Stalwarts and Supply.

I would note that multi class small fleets are a logistical and crewing total pain in the but, so a future common platform would be preferable.

The multi role sea lift is an interesting idea, however I have a feeling we would be better to build more of the heavy landing craft for extra sea lift, and keep replenishment ships as replenishment specialists.

When Success sailed (which was the replenishment ship of my serving era), she was heavily filled for fuelling and stores, so I think reducing the replenishment storage capacity for sea lift would only limit the ability to support a convoy for an extended period. It's a bit like robbing Peter to Pay Paul, and if your replenishment ship can't replenish and has to frequently replenish itself, then it kind of defeats the intended purpose.
 

Reptilia

Well-Known Member
If we are gonna get more replenishment ships, the most modern would be the new AOE from Japan, foc to be completed in 2028, up to 5 planned by 2036 replacing the Towada and Mashu class.

.
 

Stampede

Well-Known Member
Hi everyone, first time contributor

Noticed recent announcement from Spanish MOD regarding the contract award for the construction of a new combat supply ship (BAC) for the Spanish Navy to Navantia (delivery 2030).

Spanish MoD green-lights construction of new combat supply ship for navy (janes.com)

Sea 1654 - Maritime Operational Support Capability originally mentioned the option for a third vessel
With the future enlargement of the RAN combat fleet, would it not be the right time now to order a third AOR from a hot production line. I realize there are current issues with the Supply class, which may put people off a third vessel of this class, but hopefully that will shortly be a thing of the past. Is there any update on their return to normal duties?
Or maybe the RAN dusts off the plans for the two multi-role sealift and support ships - Project Sea2200 Interested to hear members views
Welcome aboard and thanks for the post.
I feel a third replenishment ship would be appropriate now highlighted by the fact that we have none in service currently.
Whether it looks like a third supply class or the suggestion of New Zealand’s supply ship I can see merit in both choices.
Regardless of what is selected , a third vessel would certainly be appropriate and I don’t hold to the view that we should be waiting till the mid 2030s.
Although our current fleet is diminished to 10 combat ships, the OPV’s will be coming on very soon bringing our ocean going fleet in numbers up to 14 or 15 very soon.
Whatever we may think of the OPVs I have no doubt that they will provide excellent service within the parameters of their design and will see service at distance from our shore.
No doubt as a part of a small ADF task force or as part of a coalition.
Third AOL also gives us the opportunity to supply that in place of a frigate or destroyer being called upon by our allies.
They are also a good HADR vessel
Sometimes It’s not a ship , it’s a flag.



Cheers S
 

Todjaeger

Potstirrer
Welcome aboard and thanks for the post.
I feel a third replenishment ship would be appropriate now highlighted by the fact that we have none in service currently.
Whether it looks like a third supply class or the suggestion of New Zealand’s supply ship I can see merit in both choices.
Regardless of what is selected , a third vessel would certainly be appropriate and I don’t hold to the view that we should be waiting till the mid 2030s.
Although our current fleet is diminished to 10 combat ships, the OPV’s will be coming on very soon bringing our ocean going fleet in numbers up to 14 or 15 very soon.
Whatever we may think of the OPVs I have no doubt that they will provide excellent service within the parameters of their design and will see service at distance from our shore.
No doubt as a part of a small ADF task force or as part of a coalition.
Third AOL also gives us the opportunity to supply that in place of a frigate or destroyer being called upon by our allies.
They are also a good HADR vessel
Sometimes It’s not a ship , it’s a flag.



Cheers S
Some key questions to ask and then consider the answers, is how quickly could the RAN order another/new AOR, how quickly could it get built, and then how quickly could it enter RAN service?

Yes, the RAN might have a shortage of access to AOR right now due to issues with the Supply-class, but if it will take 5+ years to order a new AOR and then have it entered service, that really does nothing to help current issues. On the flipside, it could also then lead to a situation where the RAN has an <ahem> oversupply... of AOR's around the same time, or perhaps just before new RAN warships are supposed to start commissioning and will also need crews.
 

Stampede

Well-Known Member
Some key questions to ask and then consider the answers, is how quickly could the RAN order another/new AOR, how quickly could it get built, and then how quickly could it enter RAN service?

Yes, the RAN might have a shortage of access to AOR right now due to issues with the Supply-class, but if it will take 5+ years to order a new AOR and then have it entered service, that really does nothing to help current issues. On the flipside, it could also then lead to a situation where the RAN has an <ahem> oversupply... of AOR's around the same time, or perhaps just before new RAN warships are supposed to start commissioning and will also need crews.
Fair Questions
If we had three supply ships now ,would that be an oversupply even if all three were operable.
I think the RAN has fallen into the position of just in time management.In part not their fault, but let’s get some capabilities that we need in the future up and running now to future proof any redundancy?

Demands for a coalition contribution will increase not diminish and it’s not just a frigate or destroyer that we may need to, or find ourselves only able to contribute.

As far as building any ship you are absolutely right it doesn’t happen overnight; but it starts when you make a commitment and I think that is something we need to give due consideration asap and not kick the can down the road.

it’s not all about SSNs

the ADF needs balance and Navy needs more than just the glamour stuff

Cheers S
 

Going Boeing

Well-Known Member
If we are gonna get more replenishment ships, the most modern would be the new AOE from Japan, foc to be completed in 2028, up to 5 planned by 2036 replacing the Towada and Mashu class.

.
Whilst I like the quality of design and build of Japanese Naval vessels, their new AOR may be a bit small (at 14,500t) for RAN operations which probably involve greater distances than needed for JMSDF operations.

The Supply class are 19,500t and HMNZS Aotearoa is 26,000t.
 

Reptilia

Well-Known Member
Whilst I like the quality of design and build of Japanese Naval vessels, their new AOR may be a bit small (at 14,500t) for RAN operations which probably involve greater distances than needed for JMSDF operations.

The Supply class are 19,500t and HMNZS Aotearoa is 26,000t.
It’s 14,500t standard load, close to 28,000t full load. The biggest they have ever built and bigger than both the Supply and Aoeteroa aswell as the Aegir 18A…
The previous class, the Mashu is 13,500t standard, 25,000t full load.
It’s also classed as a fast combat support ship, 25knt speed, long range at high cruising speed, like the Chinese type 901.
 

GregorZ

Member
Would an SSN plan B for us to refuel 2-3 of the best condition LA class SSNs if Virginias are deemed not available be feasible? Not sure what the cost would be, or the life left on the hulls, but surely 2-3 refuelled LA class SSNs would be better than nothing or an interim OOS SSK and a fantastic alternative stepping stone and learning curve to a new SSN class developed with the UK.
 

Antipode

Member
Some key questions to ask and then consider the answers, is how quickly could the RAN order another/new AOR, how quickly could it get built, and then how quickly could it enter RAN service?

Yes, the RAN might have a shortage of access to AOR right now due to issues with the Supply-class, but if it will take 5+ years to order a new AOR and then have it entered service, that really does nothing to help current issues. On the flipside, it could also then lead to a situation where the RAN has an <ahem> oversupply... of AOR's around the same time, or perhaps just before new RAN warships are supposed to start commissioning and will also need crews.
Re the overSupply, I think those three assets would find a way to remain busy, particularly if the US Navy and the Royal Navy are to visit more often due to AUKUS. Agreed on the crewing challenge.

For the Spanish Armada, two AOR and a tanker should suffice, even factoring the planned expansion. But with the amount of international exercises around Spanish area of influence, a don't think a third would find itself idle.

The execution order for the second, improved Cantabria class has been signed already, so I wouldn't hold my breath on a third Supply class for Australia coming soon. Not that the RAN would be particularly enticed to sign for a third unit, off course.

There's the new solid support ships for the Royal Fleet Auxiliary. Designed by BMT, made by the (nevertheless Navantia owned) Harland & Wolff British shipyards. They are focused on solids, but they will have a fuel replenishment capacity as well (I can't find a figure or quote).

Regardless of the FSS adequacy for the RAN, H&W may become an AUSKUS friendly provider in the 2030's.

A recent interview on the matter here:


 
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