Royal Australian Air Force [RAAF] News, Discussions and Updates

[Todjaeger]

Australia upgraded its fleet while the Koreans didn't. The Wedgetail wasn't an instant success for Australia. We spent an extra $582 million fixing those problems. The Koreans didn't spend that money so they basically have the same troubled aircraft we used to have. We also have a whopping $1.5 billion sustainment package with Boeing. Really it is the old adage. You get what you pay for.

That sustainment deal we have with Boeing runs out around 2035.

Right, but what was the issue with Australian Wedgetails, and what is the issue S. Korea has been experiencing? Is it with the avionics (radar arrays and controlling work stations/computer systems) or are the issues with the aircraft/airframes?

If the issues are (were) with the arrays and related avionics, then such issues would likely also occur if the MESA were to be fitted aboard a different aircraft platform, like one based off the A321neo.

OTOH if the issues relate to aeromechanical problems (these are Boeing 737's which came out during a particularly bad QC period...) then some consideration of a change in aircraft platform could make sense.

 

[swerve]

Right, but what was the issue with Australian Wedgetails, and what is the issue S. Korea has been experiencing? Is it with the avionics (radar arrays and controlling work stations/computer systems) or are the issues with the aircraft/airframes?

If the issues are (were) with the arrays and related avionics, then such issues would likely also occur if the MESA were to be fitted aboard a different aircraft platform, like one based off the A321neo.

Except that those issues were 15 years ago, & are said to have been fixed. It seems unlikely that Raytheon would still be selling the radar with known problems, with a known fix, & that the RAF, USAAF & NATO would all have chosen it with those known issues.

 

[Todjaeger]

Except that those issues were 15 years ago, & are said to have been fixed. It seems unlikely that Raytheon would still be selling the radar with known problems, with a known fix, & that the RAF, USAAF & NATO would all have chosen it with those known issues.

Hence the question about what the actual issues S. Korea has been experiencing with their E-737's are.

 

[hauritz]

Hence the question about what the actual issues S. Korea has been experiencing with their E-737's are.

This is what my AI told me. Both Australia and Turkey have steadily modified their aircraft. South Korea hasn't. In Australia's case we have have continued upgrading components such as the radar. The radar, with its upgraded components, is essentually the same as the version that will be used in the new build USAF and RAF aircraft. The Koreans on the otherhand are using an essentually unupgraded radar which has obsolesence issues when it comes to obtaining spare parts. So to answer your question, it has got to do with serviceablity issues surrounding the old radar and other unupraded systems.

One observation the AI made was that the US and UK buying this aircraft could give the radar and other components a new lease of life. Support for these systsms will now extend well into the 2040s leaving the option open to Australia to keep the aircraft flying for longer than originally planned. The only real issue the RAAF would face is the amount of life left in the actual airframe.

 

[seaspear]

This is what my AI told me. Both Australia and Turkey have steadily modified their aircraft. South Korea hasn't. In Australia's case we have have continued upgrading components such as the radar. The radar, with its upgraded components, is essentually the same as the version that will be used in the new build USAF and RAF aircraft. The Koreans on the otherhand are using an essentually unupgraded radar which has obsolesence issues when it comes to obtaining spare parts. So to answer your question, it has got to do with serviceablity issues surrounding the old radar and other unupraded systems.

One observation the AI made was that the US and UK buying this aircraft could give the radar and other components a new lease of life. Support for these systsms will now extend well into the 2040s leaving the option open to Australia to keep the aircraft flying for longer than originally planned. The only real issue the RAAF would face is the amount of life left in the actual airframe.

This is what my AI told me. Both Australia and Turkey have steadily modified their aircraft. South Korea hasn't. In Australia's case we have have continued upgrading components such as the radar. The radar, with its upgraded components, is essentually the same as the version that will be used in the new build USAF and RAF aircraft. The Koreans on the otherhand are using an essentually unupgraded radar which has obsolesence issues when it comes to obtaining spare parts. So to answer your question, it has got to do with serviceablity issues surrounding the old radar and other unupraded systems.

One observation the AI made was that the US and UK buying this aircraft could give the radar and other components a new lease of life. Support for these systsms will now extend well into the 2040s leaving the option open to Australia to keep the aircraft flying for longer than originally planned. The only real issue the RAAF would face is the amount of life left in the actual airframe.

This is what my AI told me. Both Australia and Turkey have steadily modified their aircraft. South Korea hasn't. In Australia's case we have have continued upgrading components such as the radar. The radar, with its upgraded components, is essentually the same as the version that will be used in the new build USAF and RAF aircraft. The Koreans on the otherhand are using an essentually unupgraded radar which has obsolesence issues when it comes to obtaining spare parts. So to answer your question, it has got to do with serviceablity issues surrounding the old radar and other unupraded systems.

One observation the AI made was that the US and UK buying this aircraft could give the radar and other components a new lease of life. Support for these systsms will now extend well into the 2040s leaving the option open to Australia to keep the aircraft flying for longer than originally planned. The only real issue the RAAF would face is the amount of life left in the actual airframe.

Going forward does'nt that include research into better airframes and engines , even venerable b-52 got new engines

 

[hauritz]

Going forward does'nt that include research into better airframes and engines , even venerable b-52 got new engines

You typical commercial 737 will last 60,000 to 90,000 flight cycles (one take off and landing). Engines about 25,000 to 45,000 flight cycles. Of course that is without that massive top hat stuck in the middle of its fuselage. I don't think these aircraft will wear out anytime soon. The bigger issue will probably be its increased vulnerability.

 

[jack412]

From what I recall at the time, Wasn't Israeli tech that went to the US, the base for the E-7 radar?
Around that time, I recall that Boeing was fined for unapproved tech transfer and was a part of the push to relax the rules for AU, Though I don't recall what programme it was on

 

[seaspear]

From what I recall at the time, Wasn't Israeli tech that went to the US, the base for the E-7 radar?
Around that time, I recall that Boeing was fined for unapproved tech transfer and was a part of the push to relax the rules for AU, Though I don't recall what programme it was on

there was this Boeing fine won't impact on Wedgetail - Australian Defence Magazine
This seems to be a good explanation of the Wedgetails role

Boeing E-7 Wedgetail: How Powerful Is Its Airborne Radar?

Discover how powerful the Boeing E-7 Wedgetail radar is. Explore its MESA technology, 360-degree surveillance, detection capabilities, and airborne command systems.

defensefeeds.com

 

[swerve]

From what I recall at the time, Wasn't Israeli tech that went to the US, the base for the E-7 radar?
Around that time, I recall that Boeing was fined for unapproved tech transfer and was a part of the push to relax the rules for AU, Though I don't recall what programme it was on

There's Israeli technology in the Wedgetail, e.g. the ESM/ELINT, but I've not heard of the radar being based on anything Israeli.