John Fedup
The Bunker Group
A fraction of the size of the E-3. The US is still committed to a space based replacement for the E-3.
Royal Australian Air Force [RAAF] News, Discussions and Updates
Yes, but the US E-7 programme survived firstly by the USAF diverting funding, then a few more being squeezed out of congress. It still looks insecure. The USA's still out of the NATO AEW programme. Trust has been lost.
Yes, Globaleye's smaller, but should still be a great improvement on the E-3, & it opens the way to a bigger European successor. NATO Europe hasn't committed to all the AEW aircraft it'd like, which may leave an opportunity. The A321 XLR could be a suitable platform.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
A321 XLR would be a great platform albeit the waiting list is pretty long.
This article shows what the U.S.A.F views how the Ghost bat may be used under control of an f-15ex,
australianaviation.com.au
Aerial refuelling, improved tasking teased in new Ghost Bat video
Boeing hinted at both capabilities with a “Take a peek into the future” video circulating online and explained how the uncrewed aircraft could be controlled by a two-seater US F-15EX fighter aircraft with battle management controls.
australianaviation.com.au
Kuwait isn't so interested in turning a profit, as keeping the Americans on side. Its suspected if some arrangement could be had to take them off their hands but still get access to US pilot training and positive relationship, they may find it acceptable. Australia is a special customer because of the E7 and aim support we gave UAE, which is very important to the smaller Arab states of UAE and Kuwait.
It would cost additional in ground crew and pilots, but not many pilots or crew, not for many years, as the SH and growler upgrades will basically gobble that up for many years and potentially mean we are very short platformed. On capabilities we have 12 and 24 of.
These new are already blk III aircraft. So getting say 6-18 of these and pulling the 6-18 of the current blk II out means life cycle costs should drop.
What aircraft? We will be done to nearly single digit jets as the spiral SH upgrade and growler upgrades happen. The F-35 is an exquisite platform at A2A, but that isn't what Australia needs currently.
Part of the MQ28 is integration with Superhornets, which is now critical for further MQ28 development. Its could be a sticking point for Germany, the US and Japan before they commit to the program, as none of those operate the E7 (US its coming, but very, slowly and even then they want fighters to be able to do it). So there needs to be a project running doing that, not just intention and well wishes. developing conops, technologies strategies and tactics. And you will want Blk III aircraft to do that on.
Having UK, Germany, Japan and the US all pile into MQ28 development makes it significantly cheaper. You are talking 9/10ths of the cost of that platform going forward could be co-born by our allies and partners, of the exact nations you want into such a program, with large fleets, deep pockets.
We are already ploughing $6b into growlers ($180m per plane just on upgrades). Another $600m for spiral upgrades, $736m in aim260, a billion for LRASM. Half a bill for JASSM-ER
So the acquisition of additional airframes would be <$1b and you would get quite a lot for that, at prices less than say $50m per aircraft. They aren't new, they are ex-dealer stock, never delivered but have been flown. And we could bring them online before 2028, and absorb into the existing support structure.
Considering we have probably spent $10b on capabilities including essentially all long range weapons and maritime strike, which may be broken by our upgrade cycle, the money seems to be urgently needed.
I think the Superhornet is really a fantastic platform with its planned upgrades, and as the last 2-seater we will ever buy. Having them control MQ28's, fire blackbeards hypersonics, Aim174b, JSM, LRASM, JASSM-ER, Aim260, makes them the premier long range platform. Its very complimentary to the F-35 and MQ28.
MQ28 integration on the F-35 would be at the back of a very, very, very long list into the never going to happen in our lifetime pile. I'm sure LM isn't really interested and even if they are F-35 development is complex and slow.
Boeing integrating on the F-18 will be of huge interest to the USN, and they can then do F-15EX, and that makes their F-15 line very relevant going forward as a MQ28 controller. Germany too is interested in it for the same reason and selling to Germany would be huge.
The USN is keen to throw money at the SH platform too, as it still makes up the backbone of the navy, and if we are worried about long range strike and maritime strike, the USN its all they think about. Examples of development include that they are putting AESA arrays into the leading edge flaps of growlers. Potentially this and the wing mounted ALQ-218 pods could give electronic triangulation capability to regular F18s, without consuming a pylon or increasing drag or RCS.
Anyway. something to think about.
Re mq-28 there seems to be a delivery cycle going forward at 2028 it certainly seems to be trialled per this article with multiple airctaft
www.airandspaceforces.com
Boeing Outlines Enhanced Capabilities for Australia’s MQ-28 Ghost Bat Combat Drone - Australia Times
New Block 3 upgrades promise extended range, internal weapons bays and wider Indo-Pacific appeal as Royal Australian Air Force advances toward operational capability
australiatimes.com
Boeing’s Ghost Bat Flew with F-35 and More in Pacific Exercise
Boeing’s MQ-28 Ghost Bat worked with multiple F-35 variants and battle management aircraft during a recent major Pacific exercise.
www.airandspaceforces.com
Boeing Defense (@BoeingDefense) on X
Take a peek into the future. With the F-15EX's future manned-unmanned teaming capabilities supported by an advanced cockpit system, communication networks and two-seat configuration, the superior fighter could serve as a battle manager and joint all domain command and control.
Aerial refuelling, improved tasking teased in new Ghost Bat video
Boeing hinted at both capabilities with a “Take a peek into the future” video circulating online and explained how the uncrewed aircraft could be controlled by a two-seater US F-15EX fighter aircraft with battle management controls.
australianaviation.com.au
CGI mock up, for F-15EX. But some interesting tid bits, including aerial refuelling markings on MQ28.
You can’t convert already built Super Hornets into Growlers…
In any case even if you could, Kuwait isn’t even selling it’s legacy Hornets, it has shown zero inclination to sell it’s new Super Hornets.
And we’re still governed by the same mob of idiots who cancelled the additional fighter squadron for RAAF. There is no money for more fighter aircraft and as I posted in the Army thread, we’ve yet to see real money for any unmanned aircraft capability…
Weren't 12 of the original F18Fs pre wired as potential growler upgrades?
Well we had those original SH wired for growler conversion. Normally not a viable option, but with the full blk II conversion basically chucking everything out that is in a growler (inc avionics, jammers, systems, computers, -everything-), its probably more possible that previously, it costs billions though.. This would be the time to look at it. Its still stupid, we should have bought more growlers, but as far as stupid options this seems more viable.
Yes. And no. It seems to have no interest in having them delivered either. It just extended support for the existing legacy hornets F404 engines and packages, its also bough no Superhornet weapons etc. No new missiles, no LRASM, or Aim120d or 260. Nothing. Also its pilot and maintainer training contract expired in 2023 with apparently no renewal, and no aircraft to fly or maintain. Its certainly in a wierd space.
And the 6 F-18F are even weirder. Because it has to have a unique WSO pipeline for just those 6 seats. While the E and F are very similar, they aren't the exact same aircraft hence the different designation. Again, it hasn't acquired any weapons for those WSO to fire anyway. In more than half a decade after the aircraft were finished and ready for delivery.
So it doesn't want to sell them. But it definitely doesn't want to have them delivered, or even use them. For over half a decade now.
A bit of diplomacy could mean talking to them, perhaps they are very happy with typhoon (28 of them inc 6 two seaters), Perhaps they would like 6 new two seater typhoons in country instead and happy to dispose of the 6 F-18F, and between US and Australia if they do want to collect super hornets, training can be done in US or AU. Maybe get them to release a batch of 6 F-18 legacy hornets for Malaysia who desperately is trying to get them.
Arhh.. But these would replace the aircraft coming out of service for upgrades. Allowing and sustaining the existing Growler and SH. It isn't actually flying any extra airframes, it just stops Australia hemeraging pilots and maintainers while aircraft disappear for *years*. At which point you then need to try to rebuild capability, get flight hours up, retrain and retain maintainers, sounds like a time consuming, expensive, process.
The Americans would easily be on board. Having aircraft rot in hangars is very different from strengthening the Asia pacific. For Australia 6 Superhornets would be a 25% increase in expeditionary maritime focused fighter power. More importantly eventually we could spin it up as a 5th flight of 6 fighters, in a the 4 flight model, like the 4 squadron model, that would mean doubling of Australia's expeditionary capability in Superhornets. From 4x6 to 5x6. And being able to sustain 4x6 while upgrades of platforms is happening.
However there is no budget, no will, no program. We. Australia are often just happy to let entire massive billion dollar capabilities completely collapse for years. Like Hobart and only 3. Like only 3 squadrons of F-35, like only 24 SH. Like only 12 growlers and we are spending $6b upgrading and developing for.
But in this case, I think Australia could apply mild pressure (we are flying E7 ops in the middle east, get the emeratis to talk to the kuwaitis about friendly power), and make moves like we might want to talk to the Americans. We are all friends, also germany looking a MQ28 intergration into 2 seater typhoons, so maybe, Australia could help them move to a larger armed drone force in the near future..
Ultimately having all those aircraft rotting away when Australia needs a 2-3 year gap they could be used for. We could just "borrow them". Given they don't want them in the country anyway.
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Yes, during manufacturing. Not done post…
Actual contracts suggest otherwise…
They have to pay that. It's what it cost to have them sit in a hangar for six months.
Some more digging.. technically they are still american owned. If we wanted to lease them for 5 years, the Americans could do that. Maybe one of the numerous leaders could mention it while they are in the usa.
Have them while we are upgrading growers and superhornets and f35 and waiting for blk iv weapon integration like lrasm jsm aim260 etc.
Some more digging.. technically they are still american owned. If we wanted to lease them for 5 years, the Americans could do that. Maybe one of the numerous leaders could mention it while they are in the usa.
Have them while we are upgrading growers and superhornets and f35 and waiting for blk iv weapon integration like lrasm jsm aim260 etc.
Even though Kuwait has spent USD $10b on this fleet and they have been training on them for years with full delivery planned for 2027?
Okay…
I could mention that the RAAF Super Hornet and Growler upgrade programs are iterative and capabilities are coming online at various times they are not being upgraded through one large Block update, but I’m starting to wonder what the point of bring facts into this is.
$10b was the full FMS for 40 aircraft.
Well they have stopped training, as of September. So now would be a great time to ask...
Kuwait doesn't own the fighter jets. Not Yet. They are frozen assets. They are still US owned by the USN. The FMS contracts heavily favour US control of these type of assets. I'm surprised the US hasn't cancelled the deal already. It like having a car sitting at the dealership, for 5 + years, then someone comes into the dealership and wants that car, they can and will sell that car.
F/A-18C/D Kuwait Deal Slips Further as Royal Malaysian Air Force Faces Strategic Airpower Crossroads - Defence Security Asia
“The F/A-18C/D Kuwait option is slipping out of reach, forcing the RMAF to confront airpower continuity risks amid U.S. export controls and regional fighter modernisation.”
defencesecurityasia.com
From Australia's point of view it really doesn't matter where the aircraft come from and we are getting bogged down in logistics that are not part of the RAAF.
The USN is taking some F models it didn't really order but congress did, but is happy to take to help manage flight hours across the fleet (Ie put into rotation). We could request 6 F-18 leased for 3-5 years, its up to the USN where they come from.
This would give use Blk III capability immediately (say by the end of the year). The ability to fire Aim260, immediately. Manage our fleet pilots and maintainers while the airframes are off line upgrading. It would allow our upgrading to be done quicker, with planes in parallel and cheaper.
So come by 2028, our Super-hornet fleet would be in much better shape, with 6-12 aircraft completed block III, and operating along side existing blk III 6 we have leased. Good coverage while the F-35 is still doing its TR-3 and mythical Blk IV upgrades (which will be more on top of TR-3!).
They are. That also makes those programs much more expensive. Instead of taking the aircraft out for the 365 days they need, you are pulling them apart multiple times to do small upgrades. This takes longer, requires more money, more people, is less efficient. If it is our only option then fine. Certifying and managing those programs increases risk in money and time. A blk III update is already proven by the USN, we are now inventing our own wacky Australian program creating a hodgepodge of different aircraft in different states. Out of step with the manufacturer, and out of step with the USN. The USN isn't doing a spiral program and if a media person was to ask they would get a clear answer why that would be a bad idea.
But if we have another option, to get more capability for less money, much, much faster, it would be fiscally and capability negligent not to explore and do that. If it can't be done, then it should be communicated we explored that option and the US rejected it.
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With some commitment now from the U.S.N to the F-47
aviationnews.eu
I would think its beyond Australia,s budget ,but the article does mention these aircraft may be replacing Growlers if the R.A.A.F is still in the market for these they might be cheap ,also if Australia is still looking at a future affordable sixth generation fighter might have to look at Tempest program and buy into that
Meet the F‑47: America’s Sixth‑Gen Stealth Fighter
AviationNews – The F‑47, developed under the U.S. Air Force’s Next Generation Air Dominance (NGAD) program and built by Boeing, is poised to redefine high-end air combat. Intel-designa…
aviationnews.eu
ThunderChunder
Member
It's all a matter of perception, and it is important to remember that software increasingly drives things both in military hardware as it does in civilian life. Remember, the Hornet was the first software-driven fighter, and the hardware put into the Super Hornet - particularly the Block II Super Hornet - was of the 2000s timeframe, the same time the F-35 was getting its hardware.
So the underlying systems of both jets - the parts that you cannot physically see - are closer to one another than people realize. And when all those F-35 developmental delays occurred in the programme, and as the F-35 TR-3 Block IV boondoggle is still not resolved, it's only allowed the Super Hornet to push past the F-35 in a lot of areas.
More than a few RAAF and US pilots have mentioned to me that the RAAF decision to buy Super Hornets has not only turned out prudent but potentially national security critical given how many roles and missions they now fill that the F-35 still cannot fill. And this is before we even talk about the revelation that the Growler has been.
On that note...
U.S. Navy Selects Boeing for F/A-XX Program
I think it would be shrewd for the RAAF to keep close tabs with the US Navy on this. That relationship on Boeing products has worked for decades and has been punching, and a sixth gen replacement for the Super Hornet and Growler would slot in nicely.
If the budget can be found to pick up some extra Super Hornets so that the existing aircraft can be put through the full USN Upgrade program without cutting numbers in services that would be ideal.
It might be worth the RAAF then looking into whether the pre-wired Super Hornets are still capable of being converted to Growlers. Depending on planned OSD.
It might be worth the RAAF then looking into whether the pre-wired Super Hornets are still capable of being converted to Growlers. Depending on planned OSD.
MARKMILES77
Well-Known Member
Is this the best reason yet for buying more Super Hornets?
RAAF aircraft seem to already be flying with the AIM-260.
Missile on the right fuselage station looks like an AIM-260 rather than an AIM-120.
This photo is from Excercise Gray Flag.
This would certainly give the Super Hornets of the RAAF a "decisive advantage".
Gray Flag: making sure systems connect the first time
A Royal Australian Air Force F/A-18F Super Hornet assigned to No. 1 Squadron takes flight at Naval Base Ventura County Point Mugu during Gray Flag 2026, Sept. 11, 2026. Gray Flag is the naval aviation test community’s premier large-force test event, providing unique venues for large-scale...
Hopefully…Is this the best reason yet for buying more Super Hornets?
RAAF aircraft seem to already be flying with the AIM-260.
Missile on the right fuselage station looks like an AIM-260 rather than an AIM-120.
This photo is from Excercise Gray Flag.View attachment 55706
View attachment 55705
This would certainly give the Super Hornets of the RAAF a "decisive advantage".
Gray Flag: making sure systems connect the first time
A Royal Australian Air Force F/A-18F Super Hornet assigned to No. 1 Squadron takes flight at Naval Base Ventura County Point Mugu during Gray Flag 2026, Sept. 11, 2026. Gray Flag is the naval aviation test community’s premier large-force test event, providing unique venues for large-scale...www.dvidshub.net
It won’t be flying very fast or turning much with that sort of loadout.