Royal Australian Air Force [RAAF] News, Discussions and Updates

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ADMk2

Just a bloke
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Upgrades to MQ-28A revealed.
Increased payload, range, software and weapons capabilities - 2x AMRAAM or 4x SDB OR ( possibly) a mix…

3x external hardpoints in addition to internal bays as required.

www.defenceconnect.com.au

Boeing reveals expanded MQ-28 Ghost Bat combat capabilities at ILA Berlin

Boeing has unveiled a significant expansion of the MQ-28 Ghost Bat’s combat capabilities at the ILA Berlin Air Show in Germany.
www.defenceconnect.com.au www.defenceconnect.com.au

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hauritz

Well-Known Member
I assume that is the block 3. An unusual position for the weapons bay which along with three extra hard points give you a theoretical loadout of 5 AIM-120 in beast mode.

Also with even better range, engine upgraded from 10,000lbs to 12,000lbs thrust, improved sensors, and better payload this is starting to look like a serious piece of military kit.

www.twz.com

Boeing’s New Larger Ghost Bat Can Carry AIM-120 AMRAAMs Internally

The stealthy Ghost Bat is heading into its third iteration, with larger wings, more power, and internal weapons bays. The stealthy Ghost Bat is heading into its third iteration, with larger wings, more power, and internal weapons bays.
www.twz.com www.twz.com
 
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SammyC

Well-Known Member
Tbone said:
Is this drone going to be affordable in numbers? The whole point is for to to be cheap and have many… but I do love it! Awesome bit of kit
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I'm thinking it is expensive as it remains a pre production/low rate model. I would view that as it matures and larger run orders are made, the price will come down.

I does however remain the high in the high/low mix.
 
John Newman

John Newman

The Bunker Group
A few years back I wrote a post here on DT regarding MQ-28A Ghost Bat when it was first announced.

I said at the time the airframe was the least impressive piece, the impressive piece is the AI, and all of the other software tech.

I still stand by that.

To me (in my opinion), is that it’s the tech that is the real jewel in the crown, as long as the AI and other software tech is easily transportable from the various airframe Blocks to the next, that where the real value is.

We’ve had Block 1, basic testing and validation, Block 2, an extension of the testing and validation.

Block 3 is where it starts to get interesting (from an operational standpoint), this the start of an airframe that can be classed as being suitable for operational use.

I look forward to a reasonable number of Block 3 entering service, we don’t need to expend an endless amount of dollars, or 100s of airframes stored, waiting, just enough, and with an agile production facility too.

I look forward to seeing the introduction of future Blocks, 4, 5, 6, etc, the sky’s the limit.

Cheers,

(PS, I do like the look of Block 3, the new wing makes it appear ready for business!)
 
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hauritz

Well-Known Member
John Newman said:
A few years back I wrote a post here on DT regarding MQ-28A Ghost Bat when it was first announced.

I said at the time the airframe was the least impressive piece, the impressive piece is the AI, and all of the other software tech.

I still stand by that.

To me (in my opinion), is that it’s the tech that is the real jewel in the crown, as long as the AI and other software tech is easily transportable from the various airframe Blocks to the next, that where the real value is.

We’ve had Block 1, basic testing and validation, Block 2, an extension of the testing and validation.

Block 3 is where it starts to get interesting (from an operational standpoint), this the start of an airframe that can be classed as being suitable for operational use.

I look forward to a reasonable number of Block 3 entering service, we don’t need to expend an endless amount of dollars, or 100s of airframes stored, waiting, just enough, and with an agile production facility too.

I look forward to seeing the introduction of future Blocks, 4, 5, 6, etc, the sky’s the limit.

Cheers,

(PS, I do like the look of Block 3, the new wing makes it appear ready for business!)
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Probably come down to how many operational drones we need. I don't see us building a huge stockpile of these things. We will need enough to train with our pilots, a few for testing and evaluation, attrition reserves and so on. Hard to put a number on. I imagine these aircraft will be flogged hard and not receive a lot of love. Wouldn't surprise if we ended up with a handful of aircraft with shortish airframe lives maybe 10 years. I actually asked AI and it produced these numbers.

Total sustainable fleet
Using midpoints:
  • Training: 10
  • Test & evaluation: 8
  • Tactics development: 7
  • Two operational squadrons: 40
  • Attrition reserve: 10
≈ 75 MQ‑28s
A leaner model (cutting into training/testing margins) gets you to:
50–60 aircraft minimum
 
A

ADMk2

Just a bloke
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
hauritz said:
Probably come down to how many operational drones we need. I don't see us building a huge stockpile of these things. We will need enough to train with our pilots, a few for testing and evaluation, attrition reserves and so on. Hard to put a number on. I imagine these aircraft will be flogged hard and not receive a lot of love. Wouldn't surprise if we ended up with a handful of aircraft with shortish airframe lives maybe 10 years. I actually asked AI and it produced these numbers.

Total sustainable fleet
Using midpoints:
  • Training: 10
  • Test & evaluation: 8
  • Tactics development: 7
  • Two operational squadrons: 40
  • Attrition reserve: 10
≈ 75 MQ‑28s
A leaner model (cutting into training/testing margins) gets you to:
50–60 aircraft minimum
Click to expand...
Pat Conroy has said publicly they are planning for a ratio of roughly 3-1 Ghost Bats to fighter jets.

The maths goes from there...
 
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Wombat000

Well-Known Member
It will be interesting to see how these will be integrated?

I think the most logical pathway is:
-A Squadron dedicated to research and development. A ‘Ghost Bat ARDU’.
-Current squadrons operate a flight of Ghost Bats.

This way each squadron gains working familiarity with operational employment of Ghost Bats, and develops specific useful adaptations to suit their squadron role.

It would suggest an increase in airframes from a typical traditional squadron numbers, so each squadron evolves an A (manned) and B (UAV) Flight.

This is an interesting time in RAAF history.
 
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thatsamguy

Active Member
I found this discussion with Boeing Defense Australia for the German audience just before the Berlin event quite interesting, particularly from Glen Ferguson, Director, Global Programs, MQ-28 Ghost Bat - best parts from about 30min onwards, Q&A from ~40min. Some of these have been stated before but useful to have a recent confirmation:
  • Currently 30min turnaround from touchdown to takeoff for next mission with hope to get it lower
  • Target of 45-60min for turnaround if including re-role with nose change, particularly linked to sensor testing processes
  • ITAR is gated to specific US subsystems and can be replaced (E.g.: Link16, weapons control for AIM-120)
  • Confirmation that the block 3 changes can be backported to the existing block 2 airframes with a particular callout for the 2x internal weapons bays
  • Space for the side weapons bays always existed but was not yet utilised
  • Re-iterated that the minimum 3:1 ratio for crewed platform to uncrewed is the Aus Gov intention but will take quite a while to get to that point (also didn't separate crewed fighter vs crewed E7, KC30, P8 etc.)
  • Outlined that when multiple Ghost Bats flying they're treated and controlled as a single entity, with sensor & data fusion within the formation, but only 1 of the formation sends it back over the link to avoid overloading the final picture for humans until sensor fusion is done (poorly paraphrasing here)
  • 2028 is the target for MQ-28 ADF operational capability
  • Can integrate with any Link 16 platform without needing changes to that platform
  • The flights they've been doing have been the final validation of the digital simulation work rather than specifically for iteration, and that they may often fly 2 at a time, but then virtualise more during the same flight test.
  • IRST sensor is currently from Leonardo
A lot of the discussion really suggests they think they're well ahead of the competition on mission capability maturity and that the mission systems and platform is the big key part of this rather than the airframe as many on here have speculated. I'm looking forward to the Block 3 and hopefully cheaper with numbers and maybe export, but really to confirm the value operationally.
 
John Fedup

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
Bob53 said:
a review taking place to consider restarting the C17 production line with some discussion on new variants. My guess is new variants would wreck the whole cost equation. How many would the RAAF want of new C17s were available?
www.twz.com

Boeing "Encouraged" By C-17 Production Restart Discussions

Congress recently asked the USAF for a briefing on the feasibility of buying new C-17s amid major strain on the existing fleet.
www.twz.com www.twz.com
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I posted this in the Military Aviation thread and as you mentioned, any new C-17 variant would doom the restart of current C-17 design which is probably not going to happen anyway.
 
Lolcake

Lolcake

Active Member
Bob53 said:
a review taking place to consider restarting the C17 production line with some discussion on new variants. My guess is new variants would wreck the whole cost equation. How many would the RAAF want of new C17s were available?
www.twz.com

Boeing "Encouraged" By C-17 Production Restart Discussions

Congress recently asked the USAF for a briefing on the feasibility of buying new C-17s amid major strain on the existing fleet.
www.twz.com www.twz.com
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I would say 4 to 6 as a wild guess.

We would replace the 2 of initially purchased models (2006) with new planes while bringing up the fleet to 10 possibly even 12 while cannibalising the retired ones. Ideally 12 knowing how important strategic airlift will be in any future conflict up north.

The initial production models will likely be 25 plus years old by the time the new ones begin entering service
 
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Lolcake

Lolcake

Active Member
swerve said:
Need a lot more than 4 to 6 to re-start production.
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Nothing to do with us. Foreign orders is just cake icing. Although I hear japan will lay down a significant order

That being said, Thr whole reason for the restart is USAF C-17 fatiguing faster thsn anticipated due to usage. Thry have over 200 aircraft. Tbey are worked far harder than our c-17s. Up to a third of their fleet may need replacement until such time when as when the next gen airlifter comes online
 
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swerve

Super Moderator
If the USAF orders enough to restart production a few others might want some. The Indian air force was reported to want more, but the MoD dithered over the order too long.

The C-2's similar to the A400M in cargo capacity, much more than the C-130 but not in the C-17's class. Japan wanting the C-17 suggests a new interest in deploying forces overseas.
 
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