Royal Australian Air Force [RAAF] News, Discussions and Updates

[ELP]

Thanks Barra.

 

[alexsa]

Currently Oz operates 18 p3 for long term Ops I would really like to see 13 P8(12 for Ops one for Training)

As this is based on the 737-900 airframe you don't really need a full blown P-8 for training. In fact basic flying training could be carrie out on one of the many 737NG platforms (flying the VIP iardraft of instance) or, more likley, in a simulator. Similalry systems training could also be carried in a simulator or training airframe rather than a full blown P-8.

I have heard the figure 12 bandied about but, as AD indicated, nothing is fixed.

 

[XaNDeR]

Alexsa and old faithfull

I have heard the quantity of F-35's ordered by Australia is 100 or more based on different information , do you know the exact numbers in order and do you think they will go for 100 or cancel a few numbers ?

 

[Aussie Digger]

Alexsa and old faithfull

I have heard the quantity of F-35's ordered by Australia is 100 or more based on different information , do you know the exact numbers in order and do you think they will go for 100 or cancel a few numbers ?

Australia hasn't ordered any F-35's yet.

The decision is still very much up in the air and possibly even hinges upon the election we have coming up in Australia this year. Our current Government has pledged to acquire "up to 100" F-35A fighters, basically enough to equip 4x operational fighter squadrons and 1x Operational Conversion Unit.

These plus a few attrition airframes and some airframes for RAAF's "development unit" will equal somewhere in the vicinity of 100 aircraft.

However the current opposition party in Australia has promised to conduct a review of Australia's air power requirements if voted in, this I imagine will delay the F-35 acquisition even if they do decide to stick with the current plan.

The decision if the current Government is voted in, is expected to be made in 2008 to acquire the F-35A and in what order, numbers etc.

 

[barra]

Australia hasn't ordered any F-35's yet.

The decision is still very much up in the air and possibly even hinges upon the election we have coming up in Australia this year. Our current Government has pledged to acquire "up to 100" F-35A fighters, basically enough to equip 4x operational fighter squadrons and 1x Operational Conversion Unit.

These plus a few attrition airframes and some airframes for RAAF's "development unit" will equal somewhere in the vicinity of 100 aircraft.

However the current opposition party in Australia has promised to conduct a review of Australia's air power requirements if voted in, this I imagine will delay the F-35 acquisition even if they do decide to stick with the current plan.

The decision if the current Government is voted in, is expected to be made in 2008 to acquire the F-35A and in what order, numbers etc.

It will be interesting if Kevin "I went to a strip club but didn't look" Rudd does get up and win. Labour has stated that F-22 is what the RAAF should be ordering. Now we all know that the US has said no to exporting f-22's so it leaves a rather large whole in their defence plans. If they are voted in then I think all the noise made previously about JSF will be quietly forgotten and F-35A will be ordered next year as AD has said. Personally I think alot of the criticism of the F-35 is ill informed, they will provide the ADF with a huge step up on what we currently operate and also over the Super Hornets. Once Wedgetail and KC-30B's are delivered and with ~100 F-35A's the RAAF will be a potent force in the region.

Hooroo

 

[Aussie Digger]

It will be interesting if Kevin "I went to a strip club but didn't look" Rudd does get up and win. Labour has stated that F-22 is what the RAAF should be ordering. Now we all know that the US has said no to exporting f-22's so it leaves a rather large whole in their defence plans. If they are voted in then I think all the noise made previously about JSF will be quietly forgotten and F-35A will be ordered next year as AD has said. Personally I think alot of the criticism of the F-35 is ill informed, they will provide the ADF with a huge step up on what we currently operate and also over the Super Hornets. Once Wedgetail and KC-30B's are delivered and with ~100 F-35A's the RAAF will be a potent force in the region.

Hooroo

I agree.

IF Labor are voted in, no doubt Defence which has done so much planning and preparation for a shift to an F-35A force will brief the Government on what they KNOW about the Lightning II and that will be the end of the "review"...

Dr Kopp and Mr Goon will remain frustrated critics...

 

[XaNDeR]

I mean't planning to order , sorry

 

[Aussie Digger]

I mean't planning to order , sorry

That's alright mate. Just trying to clarify the situation. The F-35A Lightning II is the MOST likely next generation aircraft for the RAAF, however it's never entirely certain until an order is placed and the aircraft delivered...

Regards

AD

 

[barra]

Here is something the RAAF would love to have operational and flying in Australian skies. Unfortunately I think the project may have slipped again. Most of the personnel posted in to 2SQN have been posted or loaned out so they must not be confident of receiving them anytime soon.

Hooroo

 

[Ozzy Blizzard]

It seems 2010 will be a big year for the RAAF. Wedgetail and F18F reaching operational status at the same time (hopefully) .

A networked force with platfroms as capable as the SH Block II operating under the ISR umbrella of something capable as a wedgetail, with our people. Not to be trifled with lightly.

On annother note do you think the F111 guys from No 1 & 6 spdn will have a hard time converting into fighter pilots??? New tactics, new platforms, new way of thinking??? The F18F is an F111 replacement but it will be our primary (most capable) air superiority platform untill the F35 arrives, so you would have to assumbe it will fill that role in ernest.

 

[Tasman]

Here is something the RAAF would love to have operational and flying in Australian skies. Unfortunately I think the project may have slipped again. Most of the personnel posted in to 2SQN have been posted or loaned out so they must not be confident of receiving them anytime soon.

Hooroo

The delay is certainly disappointing. The budget papers for 2007/08 stated:

The first aircraft will now be delivered in March 2009, a total delay of 28 months
against the contract baseline. While Defence still has some analysis to do on the
impacts of the schedule delay, it is planning internally on establishing an initial
operating capability in mid-2010 and final operating capability in mid-2011.

It is not surprising, given this timescale, that 2 Squadron personnel have been posted or loaned elsewhere.

Tas

 

[Magoo]

Here is something the RAAF would love to have operational and flying in Australian skies. Unfortunately I think the project may have slipped again. Most of the personnel posted in to 2SQN have been posted or loaned out so they must not be confident of receiving them anytime soon.

Hooroo

First two aircraft March 2009, IOC mid 2009, and all six by the end of that year. FOC due late 2010.

Cheers

 

[Todjaeger]

First two aircraft March 2009, IOC mid 2009, and all six by the end of that year. FOC due late 2010.

Cheers

What would suppose the chances of a showing at Avalon would be? Or would that be pushing the schedule too much.

-Cheers

 

[Tasman]

What would suppose the chances of a showing at Avalon would be? Or would that be pushing the schedule too much.

-Cheers

It would certainly be excellent PR and the schedule suggests it is possible. Are you making the trip to Avalon 2009 Tod?

Tas

 

[Tasman]

More Super Hornets?

The following article appeared in The Age. It is apparently based on an article in the US magazine, Aviation Week.

Hornet's nest - are we buying?
September 16, 2007

AUSTRALIAN officials are reported to have sounded out the US about buying more Super Hornet jet fighters, on top of the 24 ordered in a controversial $6.6 billion deal to plug a potential gap in our air defences.

The respected US magazine Aviation Week has reported Australia has "quietly expressed interest" in buying a second squadron of 24 Super Hornets.

It said Australia could also be interested in an electronic attack version of the aircraft, known as the Growler, used to counter enemy communications, radar and missile systems.

"They would be bought with budget surpluses, not with the regular defence budget," the article says.

The US Navy and the plane's maker, Boeing, are keen to secure foreign orders to keep the Super Hornet production line running until the introduction of the new Joint Strike Fighter (JSF).

Australia's existing order was made despite RAAF advice that the Super Hornet was not needed and was outclassed by Russian planes being bought by Asian air forces.

Any further purchase would trigger renewed controversy over the Government's defence acquisitions.

A spokesman for Defence Minister Brendan Nelson flatly denied the Government was planning to buy more Super Hornets.

"Absolutely not. There is no consideration of a further purchase," he told The Sunday Age.

The US Navy has been testing Super Hornets and Growlers in strike forces that could compete with the JSF.

Australia is also planning to buy 100 JSFs for $16 billion.

The Super Hornets on order are designed to fill any gap between the retirement of the RAAF's F111 bombers in 2010 and the arrival of the first JSFs in 2013.

The RAAF's former air commander, retired air vice-marshall Peter Criss, a strong critic of the Super Hornet and the JSF, said Dr Nelson should resist US pressure to buy more Super Hornets.

"I can understand why Boeing and the US Navy would like us to buy more," he said.

"The JSF is already delayed and it will fall further behind. I have no doubt the US is dead keen for us to buy more."

Aviation Week is not the only journal to suggest Australia could be interested in more of the planes. In July, Flight International quoted the head of the US Navy's Hornet program as saying Boeing had a "potential follow-on order in Australia".

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/hornets-nest--are-we-buying/2007/09/15/1189277050456.html

It seems to me that the comment that "Australia's existing order was made despite RAAF advice that the Super Hornet was not needed and was outclassed by Russian planes being bought by Asian air forces," is a serious misrepresentation of fact. Such criticism was certainly levelled by AVM Criss and also by APA (who also put the F-35 in the same category), but I can find no record of the RAAF ever making such a comment.

Brendan Nelson's comment seemed reasonable to me. I can't see the RAAF buying more Super Hornets unless there is a serious delay or failure in the F-35 program. If that was to happen then an additional squadron (or squadrons) of Super Hornets would seem a sensible way to go, IMHO.

Tas

 

[gf0012-aust]

The following article appeared in The Age. It is apparently based on an article in the US magazine, Aviation Week.



It seems to me that the comment that "Australia's existing order was made despite RAAF advice that the Super Hornet was not needed and was outclassed by Russian planes being bought by Asian air forces," is a serious misrepresentation of fact. Such criticism was certainly levelled by AVM Criss and also by APA (who also put the F-35 in the same category), but I can find no record of the RAAF ever making such a comment.

Brendan Nelson's comment seemed reasonable to me. I can't see the RAAF buying more Super Hornets unless there is a serious delay or failure in the F-35 program. If that was to happen then an additional squadron (or squadrons) of Super Hornets would seem a sensible way to go, IMHO.

Tas

What will be hysterical (in a perverse sense) will be if Labor get in and McLellan finds out first hand that F-22's are not for sale, and that the rest of the poor aviation advice that they're being fed is just as broken.

This "scoop" however is useless unless the Govt secures a buy before the announcement of an election

 

[Ozzy Blizzard]

The following article appeared in The Age. It is apparently based on an article in the US magazine, Aviation Week.



It seems to me that the comment that "Australia's existing order was made despite RAAF advice that the Super Hornet was not needed and was outclassed by Russian planes being bought by Asian air forces," is a serious misrepresentation of fact. Such criticism was certainly levelled by AVM Criss and also by APA (who also put the F-35 in the same category), but I can find no record of the RAAF ever making such a comment.

Brendan Nelson's comment seemed reasonable to me. I can't see the RAAF buying more Super Hornets unless there is a serious delay or failure in the F-35 program. If that was to happen then an additional squadron (or squadrons) of Super Hornets would seem a sensible way to go, IMHO.

Tas

I agree tassie, i was under the impression that the SH's purchase was made on the recomendation of the RAAF not in spite of it. Still how much can you trust mainstream media to not write an emotional and factually wrong article on defence? Seems to be their forte! Remember "not so stealthy"?

I would be happy with annother 24 SH's, especially with a large number of growler kits, as long as it doesnt interfere with the F35 purchase. The EW capabilities of the growler would be invaluable to the RAAF orbat, especially alongside four squadrons of F35's.

However given the DMIN's flat denial and the HUG program i doubt this is a real possibility, perhaps there was some discussion on whether a further purchase in the event of large scale JSF program delay or failure would be feasible in the timeframe mentioned and some Growler kits, which is being reported as an intention to buy???? Anyways thanks for the info it's an interesting read.

 

[Magoo]

The following article appeared in The Age. It is apparently based on an article in the US magazine, Aviation Week.



http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/hornets-nest--are-we-buying/2007/09/15/1189277050456.html

It seems to me that the comment that "Australia's existing order was made despite RAAF advice that the Super Hornet was not needed and was outclassed by Russian planes being bought by Asian air forces," is a serious misrepresentation of fact. Such criticism was certainly levelled by AVM Criss and also by APA (who also put the F-35 in the same category), but I can find no record of the RAAF ever making such a comment.

Brendan Nelson's comment seemed reasonable to me. I can't see the RAAF buying more Super Hornets unless there is a serious delay or failure in the F-35 program. If that was to happen then an additional squadron (or squadrons) of Super Hornets would seem a sensible way to go, IMHO.

Tas

Bugger! I've been sitting on this story for a while and was hoping to break it soon....

Oh well, there's the quick and then there's the dead!

Magoo

 

[Ozzy Blizzard]

Bugger! I've been sitting on this story for a while and was hoping to break it soon....

Oh well, there's the quick and then there's the dead!

Magoo

Do i detect sarcasim in that remark magoo or should i take said article a bit more seriosly???????

If so i have a few questions. An additional 24 SH's would equipe a single (?) hornet squadron. Weres the requirement? i.e. which squadron would need replacement, i was under the impression all 3 were the same age and same capablity post HUG. Or would this be an additional squadron to be formed?????

Also what about the growler kits???

i understand if you cant discuss it.

 

[rossfrb_1]

Do i detect sarcasim in that remark magoo or should i take said article a bit more seriosly???????

If so i have a few questions. An additional 24 SH's would equipe a single (?) hornet squadron. Weres the requirement? i.e. which squadron would need replacement, i was under the impression all 3 were the same age and same capablity post HUG. Or would this be an additional squadron to be formed?????

Also what about the growler kits???

i understand if you cant discuss it.

I would have thought that between the F-111 retirement and the unavailability of legacy hornets undergoing CBR, that the additional 24 would probably slot in quite easily.
However wasn't there a proposed increase in the number of RAAF hornets supposed to undergo CBR? Would as many need to be done if the additional Rhinos were bought?
It also hints that the JSF may be even further behind schedule(?).

rb