Royal Australian Air Force [RAAF] News, Discussions and Updates

Ozzy Blizzard

New Member
This is a bit off the topic boys but is their any chance of any EF 18G kits being procured for the SH fleet? It would give the RAAF a potent EW capability for a relitively low price without requireing new platforms. perhaps when the last squadrons of F35A's are procured 12 or so super bugs could be retaeined in an fast FAC/EW/Tanking role???? Is this feasible in monetary or crewing terms???
 
A

Aussie Digger

Guest
This is a bit off the topic boys but is their any chance of any EF 18G kits being procured for the SH fleet? It would give the RAAF a potent EW capability for a relitively low price without requireing new platforms. perhaps when the last squadrons of F35A's are procured 12 or so super bugs could be retaeined in an fast FAC/EW/Tanking role???? Is this feasible in monetary or crewing terms???
Would RAAF require the EA-18G level of capability with an "all stealth" air combat force?

I think the aircraft would be better off sold, whilst still maintaining a reasonably high level of operational utility and airframe life.

The F-35 with it's AESA radar and advanced internal EWSP system should provide a reasonable EA capability anyway... Certainly better than RAAF's current capability. :D
 

abramsteve

New Member
The T-6B will likely be offered, as will the PC-21, EMB-314, M-346 and maybe the Korean KT-1, but it will likely be just one element of a total overall solution encompassing a primary training platform, the advanced training aircraft, support, and local industry involvement.
Ahh ok. So is the RAAF looking to replace the PC-9 and find a new lead in trainer to release the Hawks? Or are they looking to replace both roles with a single type? Bear with me if Im behind sorry!
 

Magoo

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
Ahh ok. So is the RAAF looking to replace the PC-9 and find a new lead in trainer to release the Hawks? Or are they looking to replace both roles with a single type? Bear with me if Im behind sorry!
Nup. It'll be a primary/basic trainer to replace the BAE Flying College's CT-4s at Tamworth, and an advanced trainer to replace the PC-9, as well as simulators, computer-based training, coursewear etc.

The Hawks are lead-in fighter trainers and have a lot of life left in them yet.

Cheers

Magoo
 

barra

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
Growlers

Obviously EW is one area that any air force takes very seriously these days. Converting some of the Super Hornets to EA-18G's, once the F-35's start arriving in numbers, and acquiring HARM's would be two steps I would like to see the RAAF take. (well I can dream can't I?) With Growlers, HARM shooters and PGM armed strikers the RAAF would be well placed to operate with our allies and also generate our own strike packages if required.

This sites news section had an article on the JSF's planned EW capability some months ago. Can't remember exactly but the planned ALR system had an automatic engagement capability of any threats detected. Not just identifying the threat but also locate, classify and engage in order of lethality to the ownship. Certainly a big step up from the classic hornets.

Hooroo
 

abramsteve

New Member
Nup. It'll be a primary/basic trainer to replace the BAE Flying College's CT-4s at Tamworth, and an advanced trainer to replace the PC-9, as well as simulators, computer-based training, coursewear etc.

The Hawks are lead-in fighter trainers and have a lot of life left in them yet.

Cheers

Magoo
Cheers for the info. :)
 

Todjaeger

Potstirrer
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #67
Not at all. Armament isn't the main issue but surviability. The PC-9/A used by FACDU is why FACDU is just a develpment unit and not deployable. The aircraft is completely unsafe for combat operations. The aircrew sit ontop of an oxygen bottle! A FAC aircraft based on a trainer like the AT-6B and the Super Tucano ALX have to be completely redesigned. The PC-21 doesn't have this redesign and would be as much a death trap in combat operations as the PC-9.



The Hawk would be an excellent FAC platform but you would have to integrate a FLIR pod onto it. The AT-6B will come with a FLIR and purpose designed for FAC.
Okay, I admit I'm a little confused. I had thought that the T-6 trainer from Raytheon (Beech) was a US version of the Pilatus PC-9, with a slightly different cockpit layout. IIRC it uses the PC-7 layout? Were there specific parts of the US version that eliminated some of the design characteristics that would make it unsuitable for FAC?

Also, is it expected that the BAE Flying College will no longer be conducting basic/primary flight training for the ADF/RAAF? From what I understood of the scheme, it seemed a good one, but there could be performance or cost issues that I'm not aware of.

Incidentally regarding flight training. I understand that Qantas, which currently conducts in-house flight training for their own pilots, will be expanding their flight training capabilities. I believe this is because Qantas has identified a need for trained pilots in the region and is setting up to expand into the flight training business as well. Do people think that the ADF might enter into an agreement with Qantas whereby Qantas will conduct some of the flight training for the ADF? If so, are there any particular sectors where this is likely? I would imagine that Qantas could do the multi-engine/transport training, particularly for aircraft based off the A330 and B737 but I'm not sure if it might cover single engine or rotary wing training as well.

-Cheers
 

harryriedl

Active Member
Verified Defense Pro
Has the RAAF shone any interest in METEOR for the F35 as it being integrated for the UK and could give the RAAF an advantage over likely adversaries i know the RAAF is a very US centric force but it has adopted ASRAM so could METEOR have a chance
 

barra

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
The United States is our biggest and most important allie, so it is only natural that we buy equipment that is interoperable with the US forces. That doesn't mean that we don't look elsewhere though.

The charge that Australia only buys from the US doesn't hold much weight anymore with recent purchases like AWD and LHD from Spain as well as the Tiger ARH, MRH-90 and KC-30B Tankers all from European companies.

Australia has had instances in the past were weapon suppliers have withdrawn support because they disagreed with our involvement in certain conflicts. It is well documented that Sweden refused to support the Carl Gustav weapons the army was using because they were against the Vietnam war. I also believe the reason RAAF Mirages were never deployed to Vietnam was mainly because of French opposition. The French also made sure we bought Squirrel choppers in the 80's by withholding Mirage spares until a deal was done. Wonderfull allies!!!

AFAIK the US has never withdrawn support of any weapons systems we have bought off them. Mainly because whenever they go to war we are usually not to far behind I suppose.:rolleyes:

Hooroo
 

AGRA

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
Okay, I admit I'm a little confused. I had thought that the T-6 trainer from Raytheon (Beech) was a US version of the Pilatus PC-9, with a slightly different cockpit layout. IIRC it uses the PC-7 layout? Were there specific parts of the US version that eliminated some of the design characteristics that would make it unsuitable for FAC?
The T-6A was a significant redesign of the PC-9. Using a new cockpit - nothing to do with the PC-7. It also has an onboard oxygen generation system not the bottles. The T-6B adds a digital flight control system. The AT-6B is a further redesign adding armour, weapons, FLIR, removable rear ejection seat. Man all this info is available on the net, even try Wikipedia or go to the Beechcraft webpage and read the product brochures...

Also, is it expected that the BAE Flying College will no longer be conducting basic/primary flight training for the ADF/RAAF? From what I understood of the scheme, it seemed a good one, but there could be performance or cost issues that I'm not aware of.
Yes, no, no. The ADF wants to train its pilots as warfighters from before day 1. The idea that flying was flying and warfighting something different is gone. Having civilian instructors, teaching in a relaxed campus approach is out with the old biggles attitude. There will be significant commercial provision of support for the new ADF Aircrew Training System (Air 5428 and Air 9000/7) but not civil aircraft ownership or civil flight instructors.
 

AGRA

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
Has the RAAF shone any interest in METEOR for the F35 as it being integrated for the UK and could give the RAAF an advantage over likely adversaries i know the RAAF is a very US centric force but it has adopted ASRAM so could METEOR have a chance
Meteors old hat – we will be shooting AIM-162F AMRAAM-ER from our F-35s… PS ASRAAM probably won’t be on the F-35A because it’s only being integrated on F-35B. And it’s not about my/your/there country right or wrong it’s about a VFM lethal solution for the air combat force. In which case AIM-9X on an F-35A in WVR will be far superior to any potential adversary.
 

harryriedl

Active Member
Verified Defense Pro
Meteors old hat – we will be shooting AIM-162F AMRAAM-ER from our F-35s… PS ASRAAM probably won’t be on the F-35A because it’s only being integrated on F-35B. And it’s not about my/your/there country right or wrong it’s about a VFM lethal solution for the air combat force. In which case AIM-9X on an F-35A in WVR will be far superior to any potential adversary.
the stressing should be the same so i imagine that anything integrated on one the variants of the F35 it should be compatible with the rest of the fleet
 

AGRA

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
Nope. F-35B has a different weapons bay to both F-35A and F-35C.
 

harryriedl

Active Member
Verified Defense Pro
Nope. F-35B has a different weapons bay to both F-35A and F-35C.
But the pylons mounted in the bays are the same just stressed for 1000 pound bombs rather 2000 pound bombs and is smaller dimensions compared with F35C and F35A and for the testing of METEOR AND ASRAAM one plane should be able to integrated the missiles for the other types
 

AGRA

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
But the pylons mounted in the bays are the same just stressed for 1000 pound bombs rather 2000 pound bombs and is smaller dimensions compared with F35C and F35A and for the testing of METEOR AND ASRAAM one plane should be able to integrated the missiles for the other types
Yeah you’d think so but unfortunately no. Certification for carriage on the F-35B will not provide certification for the F-35A/F-35C. Certainly integration on the F-35B will enable systems integration on the other two variants but you will still have to do another carry and launch certification campaign. PS this isn’t an ‘opinion’ of mine but a fact. So don’t come back at me send your email to the JSF PO or Lockheed Martin…
 

barra

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
Why the RAAF doesn't need F-22

Here is the reason the RAAF is not interested in F-22 Raptors. Just a sneak peak, they are still top secret so SHHHHHH!! Don't tell anyone;)



View attachment 1797
 
Last edited:

rossfrb_1

Member
Just to keep this kicking along.
Nice PR piece for Boeing
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22255957-31477,00.html

RAAF Super Hornet buy excites interest

* Font Size: Decrease Increase
* Print Page: Print

Mark Dodd | August 17, 2007

AUSTRALIA'S $6 billion purchase of 24 F/A-18F Block 2 Super Hornets was open and transparent, and senior Boeing officials said yesterday they had a clear corporate conscience over the deal.

The Howard Government's controversial decision to buy what its makers describe as the world's best multi-mission warplane has prompted renewed interest in the Super Hornet from other countries, according to Hornet program vice-president Bob Gower.

The deal was covered by a government-to-government foreign military sale agreement, the first involving the Super Hornet, and Australia paid the same price for the advanced aircraft as its main operator, the US Navy, Mr Gower said yesterday.

"Australia is not actually buying from Boeing. It is buying this warplane from the US Navy, so Australia is getting the US Navy's pricing.

"From Boeing's perspective, the information provided to Australia about the F/A-18F was unprecedented."

The RAAF "had as much visibility into this platform as the US Navy".

Other nations were increasingly watching what Australia was buying for its defence force and how equipment was being used, Boeing integrated business development 's vice-president Mark Kronenberg said. "Australia is a bellwether customer. It's transparent. It's a model of how we like to do business internationally. Our customers look at what Australia does," he said.

The Australian aircraft - the first four of which will be delivered to Amberley in January 2010 - is a carbon copy of the US Navy's Super Hornet except for an automated aircraft carrier landing system.

US analysts said the decision to purchase the Block 2 Super Hornet with fifth-generation fighter technology should enable Australian to get better terms for its $14 billion purchase of the F-35 joint strike fighter (JSF).

They said the Super Hornet's advanced technology, including its radar, would mean Australia wouldn't have to buy early production versions of the F-35, allowing later delivery of the more fully developed Block 3 version of the plane at a more favourable price.

At the heart of the Super Hornet is its Active Electronically Scanned Array radar system - the world's most advanced - a fifth-generation system transplanted from Boeing's failed JSF bid, Mr Gower said.

The Block 2 aircraft also has an extended range similar to the F-111, low-observability, or stealth, qualities and extra space for weapons and ordnance.

Boeing first proposed the Super Hornet as a replacement for the ageing F-111 fleet in 1997, but by the time the Howard Government committed to buying the warplane a 33 per cent price reduction had been achieved through efficiency gains and US Navy sales. The RAAF aquired the Super Hornet to plug the capability gap between the retirement of the F-111 strike aircraft in 2010 and the arrival of the first JSF.

Delays in the JSF program underscored the need for acquiring a modern multi-role platform, Defence Minister Dr Brendan Nelson said.

The decision to buy the Super Hornet has led to renewed interest in the F/A-18F Block 2 aircraft by Canada, Switzerland and even the US Air Force, which would have preferred Australia to choose the F-15E Strike Eagle, Mr Gower said.

Australian industries could make huge gains as a result of the Super Hornet sale, including involvement in lucrative support for USN Super Hornets, he said.

"You will soon see heavy influence in two primary areas - the support package worth tens of millions of dollars both domestically (RAAF service needs) and for support of the US fleet (air arm) which is much larger."

Boeing Australia is second only in size to Boeing US and employs more than 4000 people.

"The F/A-18F is the world's best multi-role fighter.

"The avionics in that fighter are the same as Boeing was going to put into its JSF equivalent.

"The platform Australia is buying has world-class stealth capabilities, low visibility, great range and great survivability," Mr Gower said.

**************************************

I was of the understanding that the block 2 had some LO features compared to the classic hornets. "World class stealth capabilities" - as opposed to "features" suggests to me something 'active', that or it's just fluff.
The idea that the block 2 has a similar range to the F-111 might not be go down well in some circles :rolleyes:

rb
 

Ozzy Blizzard

New Member
I was of the understanding that the block 2 had some LO features compared to the classic hornets. "World class stealth capabilities" - as opposed to "features" suggests to me something 'active', that or it's just fluff.
The idea that the block 2 has a similar range to the F-111 might not be go down well in some circles :rolleyes:

rb
World class LO capabilities could be refering to the APG 79's EA capability, but i reckon its mere puff.

And as far as the block 2 having a similar range to the F111 i have to disagree with that one. Clean its combat radius is something like 150~170NM. Thats pretty pathetic. I think he's refering to the ammount of external fuel it can carry. With several external tanks it may be able to reach out to somewere near the range of a clean F111, but then it compromises its payload. I doubt it can compare to the F111 in terms of payload to target capability. The pig is a dedicated bomb truck after all. But then again the pig cant use all that range if there is fighter resistance. It could however take a JASSM a long way before launching it. But given the Block 2's avionics package, electronic attack capability, payload, networking and weapons loadout it should give the RAAF a significantly increased strike and air superiority capability.
 

barra

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
Why would the USAF be interested in Super Hornets? I can understand the Canucks and Swiss and even the Marine Corp but not the USAF. Anyone got any ideas? :confused:
Hooroo

The decision to buy the Super Hornet has led to renewed interest in the F/A-18F Block 2 aircraft by Canada, Switzerland and even the US Air Force, which would have preferred Australia to choose the F-15E Strike Eagle, Mr Gower said.
 
Top