Royal Australian Air Force [RAAF] News, Discussions and Updates

[seaspear]

I haven't read much in the way of what the R.A.A. F is planning for life upgrades with their super Hornets block two , but this article suggests there are possibilities
Boeing awarded contract to build 78 F/A-18 Block III Super Hornets
and often the the R.A.A.F has followed the U.S.N in its development ,certainly I cam understand it would be argued that the F35A is a large commitment financially but there would be a strong argument for keeping the Super Hornets at cutting edge
Apologies I misread and meant this post for the R.A.A.F thread , note to self about wearing reading glasses

 

[hauritz]

I haven't read much in the way of what the R.A.A. F is planning for life upgrades with their super Hornets block two , but this article suggests there are possibilities
Boeing awarded contract to build 78 F/A-18 Block III Super Hornets
and often the the R.A.A.F has followed the U.S.N in its development ,certainly I cam understand it would be argued that the F35A is a large commitment financially but there would be a strong argument for keeping the Super Hornets at cutting edge
Apologies I misread and meant this post for the R.A.A.F thread , note to self about wearing reading glasses

I am still unsure of the Super Hornet's future with the RAAF but I have my doubts whether they will be planning upgrades at this stage. To do so would commit them to retaining the aircraft into the 2030s. The RAAF have publically stated that they want an all 5th Gen airforce by 2025 which would suggest its future may be limited. I suspect that once the F-35 becomes operational they will start to push hard to replace the Rhinos.

 

[John Fedup]

A sale to Canada is an option assuming junior survives the next election. Even then, he would need a majority in order to buy used jets again. This is looking very unlikely.

 

[t68]

I am still unsure of the Super Hornet's future with the RAAF but I have my doubts whether they will be planning upgrades at this stage. To do so would commit them to retaining the aircraft into the 2030s. The RAAF have publically stated that they want an all 5th Gen airforce by 2025 which would suggest its future may be limited. I suspect that once the F-35 becomes operational they will start to push hard to replace the Rhinos.

I was under the impression that they would stay in lock step with the USN as if and when they may go straight into USN service, I remember reading that sometime ago

 

[Redlands18]

I am still unsure of the Super Hornet's future with the RAAF but I have my doubts whether they will be planning upgrades at this stage. To do so would commit them to retaining the aircraft into the 2030s. The RAAF have publically stated that they want an all 5th Gen airforce by 2025 which would suggest its future may be limited. I suspect that once the F-35 becomes operational they will start to push hard to replace the Rhinos.

I suspect that the Rhinos will be around into the 2030s, it may be a difficult sell for the RAAF to get the funds to replace what will still be an effective Combat Aircraft with plenty of life in the Airframes especially if they stay in lockstep with the USN with upgrades.

 

[seaspear]

Would the option of being able to upgrade the S/H and also increase its flight hours make the aircraft more appealing for a buyer if the R.A.A.F chooses to sell it might be the U.S is an interested buyer in that case

 

[John Fedup]

Might be better to leave them as they are in case Kuwait wants them. The possibility of Boeing upgrading them for Kuwait would encourage Boeing to get the US to approve of the disposal to Kuwait. This would also force the USN to buy new SHs should they need anymore in the future.

 

[hauritz]

I certainly don't think there is any urgency to replace the Rhino and the dedicated back seat might actually come in useful, particularly if Australia move forward with something like the Loyal Wingman concept.

The question in my mind would be whether the expence of upgrading its fleet of Rhinos ... and perhaps Growlers to block III and extending the airframe life out to 10000 hours would be desirable in Australia's case. I could see this potentially pushing out the life expectancy of the aircraft out to the 2040s and beyond.

 

[seaspear]

There are a number of articles that suggest that the S/H and F35A could exist and operate in a complimentary fashion ,
Preparing for stormy skies (part 1): the RAAF’s future fighter force | The Strategist
Navy, Boeing Tout Block III Super Hornet As Partner For F-35
Boeing’s Block III Super Hornet ‘High End’ Complement To F-35: Stackley
I would not suggest a reduction in the order of the F35 for the R.A.A.F ,but I would expect that the R.A.A.F would take a view on what maximises the capabilities of its airforce in whether to have a mix of aircraft or be a single aircraft operator and not be parochial.

 

[vonnoobie]

Actually looking at the 2019-2020 defence budget on a cost factor it appears cheaper to operate the F-35A rather then the SH or Growler.

Estimated flying hours respectively - 4,564 vs 6,450 (combiner SH and Growler)
Sustainment costs for 2019-2020 - $191m vs $511m (To be fair this also includes the spiral upgrades though I am not sure on what portion it is)

Guesstimated cost per hour based on those figures - $41,849.25 vs $79,224.80

As stated not sure on what impact the spiral upgrades have on the costs to the SH and Growler but it does leave some food for thought that the F-35A may actually be cheaper then the SH and Growler to operate.

That said there will be other factors to consider. Replacing the SH with an F-35A that we could have for up to 50 years and miss out on one of the 6th gen aircraft currently getting started up or use up the full service life capability of the SH and buy a 6th gen or more modern updated version of the F-35.

Develop the Loyal Wing man fully and scrap the 4th fleet and replace it with many times more of these drones that apparently are meant to be a lot cheaper then any manned aircraft.

 

[Stampede]

My guess is that the RAAF would want to go with an all F35 fleet.

The challenge will be that when the last of the current tranche of 72 F35A's are delivered in the early 2020's their will be some serious competition for defence funds from both Army ( Land 400 ) and Navy OPV's, Hunter Class and Subs.
With another federal election around this period I can envisage it becoming a political decision with the temptation to keep the super hornets for many years ahead.
Much can / will happen between now and then.
We wait and see.


Regards S

 

[PeterM]

There are a number of articles that suggest that the S/H and F35A could exist and operate in a complimentary fashion ,

The US Navy will be using the F/A18 F Block 3 alongside the F-35c.

I found this article on how the Super Hornet complements the F-35.
Boeing’s Block III Super Hornet ‘High End’ Complement To F-35: Stackley

I could easily see the RAAF using our Super Hornets alongside our F-35s, particularly as we have the Growlers in the mix anyway. We would be able to leverage any developments/synergies from USN with their F-35c / F/A-18f / EA-18g air group.

 

[hauritz]

My guess is that the RAAF would want to go with an all F35 fleet.

The challenge will be that when the last of the current tranche of 72 F35A's are delivered in the early 2020's their will be some serious competition for defence funds from both Army ( Land 400 ) and Navy OPV's, Hunter Class and Subs.
With another federal election around this period I can envisage it becoming a political decision with the temptation to keep the super hornets for many years ahead.
Much can / will happen between now and then.
We wait and see.


Regards S

You could argue that the Super Hornet replacement has already been costed.

The 2016 White Paper calls for options to replace the Super Hornet be considered in the early 2020s with the view of replacing it in the late 2020s.
There seems to have also been a bit of slippage in both the submarine and frigate programs so it is possible that unallocated funding might be available in the mid 20s.

 

[PeterM]

I suspect that the Rhinos will be around into the 2030s, it may be a difficult sell for the RAAF to get the funds to replace what will still be an effective Combat Aircraft with plenty of life in the Airframes especially if they stay in lockstep with the USN with upgrades.

I could also see the Rhinos being retained. The decision will likely be:

1. Replace the Rhinos with new F-35s. (at perhaps US$80m each for the aircraft alone, 24 aircraft would US$1.92bn)
2. Keep and upgrade the Rhinos
3. Lose the capability

It seems to me that retaining the Super Hornets could be the balance between cost and capability, particularly should there be a change of government.

Interestingly USN Super Hornets will have a Service Life Modification providing an additional 3,000 flight hours of service life and will also be upgraded with the Block III capabilities.
Block III Super Hornet upgrades to begin this spring

Presumably, the RAAF could tap into this upgrade program should we choose to extend our use of the F/A-18f.

 

[t68]

I can understand wanting to limit the collateral damage depending on the type of operations, but so we don't inconvenience anyone going on about theor lives in a war zone, we will just let the Enemy continue on as before and try and contain the situation with more ground forces whom that very women we may have inconvenience may take up arms and jeopardise Australian soldiers on the ground.



This is taking things to a new level of absurdity

'We need to train combat warriors, not social justice warriors': Air Force pilots are taught to think of women and consider 'gendered social roles' during bombing operations in war zones

but I do like this line of thinking

However former army officer Bernard Gaynor said: 'We need our Defence Force to train combat warriors, not social justice warriors. The sooner Defence returns to its core business the better.'

 

[MARKMILES77]

I could also see the Rhinos being retained. The decision will likely be:

1. Replace the Rhinos with new F-35s. (at perhaps US$80m each for the aircraft alone, 24 aircraft would US$1.92bn)
2. Keep and upgrade the Rhinos
3. Lose the capability

It seems to me that retaining the Super Hornets could be the balance between cost and capability, particularly should there be a change of government.

Interestingly USN Super Hornets will have a Service Life Modification providing an additional 3,000 flight hours of service life and will also be upgraded with the Block III capabilities.
Block III Super Hornet upgrades to begin this spring

Presumably, the RAAF could tap into this upgrade program should we choose to extend our use of the F/A-18f.

Best option would be to replace the 24 Super Hornets with more F35As but convert the 12 prewired Super hornets into 12 additional Growlers. and keep them in service.

 

[seaspear]

Is there an operational possibility for the S/H to provide air to air refueling of the F35A feasible for long range missions ,I can understand that there are designated aircraft for this but not with a level of stealth ?

 

[Stampede]

Is there an operational possibility for the S/H to provide air to air refueling of the F35A feasible for long range missions ,I can understand that there are designated aircraft for this but not with a level of stealth ?

I would speculate it maybe possible for the F35 B and C variants but not the A variety the RAAF have entering service.

Regards S

PS- I do like the concept!

 

[Stampede]

Best option would be to replace the 24 Super Hornets with more F35As but convert the 12 prewired Super hornets into 12 additional Growlers. and keep them in service.

Nice concept
Sounds a nice way to get that 5th fast air Sqn the RAAF have long wanted.
Sorry forgot the Growlers are not really multi role jets!!

Actually it would be a good fit if you could make it happen
4 x F35 Sqn's with a decent number of Growlers in support would make for a regionally dominant force.
Add to the mix the projected force and numbers of aircraft for maritime patrol,Electronic warfare and also Airborne Early warning and control it then becomes difficult to think of what the RAAF is lacking.
Maybe the uniqueness of the F35 B?


Regards S

 

[CJR]

The other question about the future of the Super Hornets is: How autonomous will Loyal Wingman actually be? By implication, how much extra workload will coordinating a flight of them on top of flying their own aircraft place on aircrew?

If Loyal Wingman requires a lot of active coordination then the need for a back seater to mange them rather than distract the pilot may be significant, in which case the need for a two seater goes way up and Super Hornet wins out by virtue of there being no twin-seater F-35s...

This is taking things to a new level of absurdity

The article is from the Daily Mail. They're not exactly the most reliable source, and they have a well established reputation for throwing facts out the window and ranting incoherently in order to stir up the psychopathic reactionary demographic...