Philippine Air Force Discussions and Updates

[AVBsupersonic]

This is about fighter jets acquisitions of other countries to weigh their options which is the best fighter jet to consider in the same way for us (the Philippines) as a new option to study, before this article came out, Me and You the rest of the 90M. Filipinos out there didn't have an Idea that it's possible also for the PAF to consider the Eurofighter Typoon as an option!

Like a " DREAM! " the fact that's on the article it was a bidding offer between Eurofighter Typhoon, (Jas 39 Gripen, and F16 Eagle A/Bs ) which are (2) of the future MRFs that the PAF is considering as an option....... Doesn't that make it possible for us to achieve that DREAM???? One of the better options for us to consider!
The Eurofighter Typhoon is by far more SUPERIOR than the Gripen and F16's and if we can get them on the same price range, it's one better option to consider! It's 3:1 Ratio with an F16 according to an RAF Pilot and a friend of mine who works at RAF Mildenhall as an F15 Eagle technician NATO in the UK.
example;
If the PAF acquires (16) Eurofighter Typhoon, it's like having (48) E.T. MRF's making it more low cost to maintain (16) MRFs for the PAF in nos., and PAF will be able to look after it very well, but a more powerful and advanced 4.5 Gen.MRF for us to have to protect our Air space, for security and sovereignty of the whole country and will definitely bring us back our Dignity and Respect from our neighbouring countries and the whole world.

 

[AVBsupersonic]

I KNOW SOME MIGHT SAY? - I just hope they increase the budget of PAF. 16 Eurofighter is not enough to defend our country. How can an airforce that has an air power of 16 fighter jets battle against other airforces that has hundreds of fighter jets.

I agree! But will just have to start with what we can manage really, but this is a good start if they'll consider it! (16) Eurofighter Typhoon considering it's potential will be more than enough to start with for PAF. For sure if things went well with regards to our economy, budget will increase and Philippines will acquire more up to their target of (36) MRFs. Eurofighter is by Far more SUPERIOR than F16s and Gripens at a 3:1 Ratio on an F16s will out class a Gripen, and according to an article in Wikepedia of the Eurofighter Typhoon In 2005, a trainer Eurofighter T1 was reported to have had a chance encounter the previous year with two U.S. Air Force F-15Es over the Lake District in the north of England. The encounter became a mock dogfight with the Eurofighter allegedly emerging victorious.[124][125][verification needed]

If you think about its capabilities that's awesome for us to have! before we can only DREAM it but now it can be a possible option for us to consider! just check out the article from my previous posts above and links as well...

So to have (16) Eurofighter 2000 is like having (48) MRFs -3:1 ratio. so don't feel outnumbered for a start..... WE WILL HAVE MORE!!!

 

[AVBsupersonic]

The reason why I said only (16) EuroFighter is for us to have enough budget also to acquire enough Armaments + RADAR stations, staff/pilot training etc. within our PAF Budget of P 50B. Pesos = $ 1.1B. USD and this is more than enough for us to start with and can still continue acquisitions after depending on budget and our country's economy after CUP Phase 3.

I think this is one good option for us to consider as well, considering the Eurofighter's advanced capabilities, it's one step closer to 5th generation technology and a perfect way to claim our Glory as one of Asia's finest Air Force!


Article from EUROFIGHTER TYPHOON Wikepedia;

Performance



Flight demonstration at WTD61 Manching/Germany.


A Royal Air Force Eurofighter Typhoon T1
In 2004, prior to the F-22 Raptor entering service, United States Air Force Chief of Staff General John P. Jumper said after flying the Eurofighter:
I have flown all the air force jets. None was as good as the Eurofighter.[107][108]
The Typhoon's combat performance, compared to the new F-22 Raptor and the upcoming F-35 Lightning II[109] fighters and the French Dassault Rafale, has been the subject of much discussion. In March 2005, Jumper, then the only person to have flown both the Eurofighter Typhoon and the Raptor, talked to Air Force Print News about these two aircraft. He said,
The Eurofighter is both agile and sophisticated, but is still difficult to compare to the F/A-22 Raptor. They are different kinds of airplanes to start with; it's like asking us to compare a NASCAR car with a Formula One car. They are both exciting in different ways, but they are designed for different levels of performance.[110]
Further, "The Eurofighter is certainly, as far as smoothness of controls and the ability to pull (and sustain high g forces), very impressive", he said. "That is what it was designed to do, especially the version I flew, with the avionics, the color moving map displays, etc. — all absolutely top notch. The maneuverability of the airplane in close-in combat was also very impressive."[110][111]
In July 2007, the Indian Air Force fielded the SU 30 MKI during the Indra-Dhanush exercise with Royal Air Force's Eurofighter Typhoon. This was the first time that the two jets had taken part in such a exercise.[112][113] The IAF did not allow their pilots to use the radar of the MKIs during the exercise so as to protect the highly-classified N011M Bars.[114] During the exercise, the RAF pilots candidly admitted that the Su-30MKI displayed maneuvering superior to that of the Typhoon but they had studied, prepared and anticipated this. The IAF pilots on their part were also visibly impressed by the Typhoon's agility in the air.[115]
The Typhoon is capable of supersonic cruise without using afterburners. This is referred to as supercruise. According to the official German Luftwaffe and Austrian Eurofighter website, the maximum speed possible without reheat is between Mach 1.2 and Mach 1.5.[116][117][118] Air Forces Monthly gives a maximum supercruise speed of Mach 1.1 for the RAF FGR4 multirole version.[119] However the Eurofighter can only supercruise in a clean configuration without external missiles and fuel tanks.[120]
The Eurofighter consortium claims their fighter has a larger sustained subsonic turn rate, sustained supersonic turn rate, and faster acceleration at Mach 0.9 at 20,000 feet (6,100 m) than the F-14 Tomcat, F-15 Eagle, F-16 Fighting Falcon, F/A-18 Hornet, Dassault Mirage 2000, Dassault Rafale, the Sukhoi Su-27, and the Mikoyan MiG-29.[121][122][123]
In 2005, a trainer Eurofighter T1 was reported to have had a chance encounter the previous year with two U.S. Air Force F-15Es over the Lake District in the north of England. The encounter became a mock dogfight with the Eurofighter allegedly emerging victorious.[124][125][verification needed]
In the 2005 Singapore evaluation, the Typhoon won all three combat tests, including one in which a single Typhoon defeated three RSAF F-16s, and reliably completed all planned flight tests.[126][127][verification needed] Singapore still went on to buy the F-15 due to uncertainty over Typhoon tranche 2 delivery dates.
During the exercise "Typhoon Meet" held in 2008, Eurofighters flew against F/A-18 Hornets, Mirage F1s, Harriers and F-16s in a mock combat exercise. It is claimed that the Eurofighters won all engagements (even outnumbered 8 vs 27) without suffering losses.[128][129]
The aviation magazine "Flug Revue" reports that in 2008 German Typhoon were pitted against French Rafales. The results are said to be "extremely gratifying", the main difference being the "much greater thrust of the EJ200 engine".[130]
In July 2009, Former Chief of Air Staff for the Royal Air Force Air Chief Marshal Sir Glenn Torpy said that "The Eurofighter Typhoon is an excellent aircraft. It will be the backbone of the Royal Air Force along with the JSF".[131]

It would be Awesome for PAF to have this Fighter as our Main Air Superiority MRF.

 

[AVBsupersonic]

I Hope Anybody or someone from the Philippine Air Force will see this thread and forward it to consider the EF2000 TYPHOON as possible option and negotiate to acquire those being offered to ROMANIA by ITALIAN Air Force. If the price is similar to F16s and Gripens with rather have the TYPHOONS!

I think it's a good deal, with the EF2000's advanced capabilities outclassing F16s, F18s, JAS GRIPEN, and the F15 EAGLE...

Malaysian Air Force is also thinking of TYPHOONS as possible candidate in line with F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, F-15 Eagle, Dassault Rafale, JAS 39 Gripen NG, Sukhoi Su-35, and Lockheed F-16C/D Block 52 Fighting Falcon to replace their MIG 29s to be phased out later this year 2010, So we better hurry up and start negotiations!!!

 

[gforce]

Oh crap! why would he hold it when they can investigate if its a midnight purchase or not! Cobras are deadly weaponry and considering it's coming from ISRAEL which is one of the best when it comes to Military Upgrades, refurbishments, advanced weaponry and all that, they are the best!!! not to pricey like US weaponry. P 3B. Pesos for (14) AH 1 Cobra's are cheap!!:flash

I just hope it will not be on hold and I am waiting for a follow-up news about this because it is the same new president that promised to increase defense spending by up to 50% if he wins the presidency which he is already the apparent winner!

Here comes the follow-up news...

DND seals P2.8-billion deal for Polish helicopters
By Jaime Laude (The Philippine Star) Updated June 03, 2010 12:00 AM

MANILA, Philippines - The Department of National Defense (DND) is acquiring eight brand new combat utility helicopters from Poland instead of Israel, Defense Undersecretary for Modernization Antonio Romero said yesterday.

Romero said a government-to-government contract worth P2.8 billion was recently signed by the defense department with its Polish counterpart for the purchase of the combat utility helicopters.

“We expect initial delivery of four units within a year,” Romero said. The defense department earlier closed a P3-billion deal with Israel for the acquisition of a fleet of reconditioned single-engine Cobra attack helicopters.

Romero said the deal did not push through because the Philippine Air Force (PAF) rejected it.

Poland-based helicopter manufacturer Swidnik will produce the helicopters which, Romero said, had met PAF requirements, particularly the lifting capability.

Read more... DND seals P2.8-billion deal for Polish helicopters | The Philippine Star >> News >> Headlines

Though there have been instances of guerilla groups obtaining commercial batteries to extend the life of their MANPADS it is doubtful that any MANPADS delivered in the 80's or 90's by Libya to the MNLF/MILF are still operational. Apart from difficulty in obtaining new stocks, I think the non-operational status of MANPADs due to expired batteries and damage resulting from prolonged storage in the field is the reason why in recent years there has been a decrease of MANPADs usage in Afghanistan, Chechnya and Iraq.

The MILF which is the break-away group from the MNLF, and is believed to have taken over the Libyan SA-7 MANPADS after the MNLF signed a peace treaty with the Government of the Republic of the Philippine, still has international contacts. In 2005, the MILF ordered a mini-submarine and other arms from North Korea. Read more... http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/05/breaking2453376.1868055556.html

It is to my personal opinion that the MILF can still maintain and obtain secret weapons such as MANPADS with their international contacts when the need arrives.

Now what is the KFIRs defense against MANPADS? Same question goes to all the other MRF bets here in this thread because obviously these MANPADS that the MILF is rumored to still possess may be reserved when the time comes that the Philippine Air Force has already acquired MRFs that are hard to defeat... the very reason why the MNLF acquired MANPADS was to defend itself against the fast (at that time) F-86, F-5, and F-8 fighter jets of the Philippine government.

 

[gforce]

This PAF helicopter acquisition news confused me because there was supposed to be a separate plan to buy combat utility helicopters (the Polish Sokol) and night attack helicopters (which according to earlier news was the Israeli Cobra).

Is this the aircraft? PZL W-3A

Yes it is the PZL W3 Sokol

Philippine Air Force visits Sokol Production Site in Poland...

http://www.timawa.net/forum/index.php?topic=22965.0

***** UPDATE *****

DND shopping around for heavy weapons, trucks
By Jaime Laude (The Philippine Star) Updated June 04, 2010 12:00 AM

Aside from the eight brand-new helicopters, the DND is also looking at Canada or France for the acquisition of fighter jets, which the Air Force also needs.

“For now only Canada has a funding scheme for us if we are going to purchase fighter jets from them,” Romero said.

Read more... http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx?articleId=581153&publicationSubCategoryId=63

It appears that it's final that the Philippine Air Force will be acquiring fighter jets from either Canada or France but what could this Canadian (or French) fighter jets be?

 

[hvl700]

reality

guys,

i think it pays to be realistic. Yes it would be nice to acquire all those cool albeit dated by now U.S military hardware such as Cobras and A10s, etc. Reality is we cannot afford their maintenance, yeah sure we may be able to afford the sticker price or even get it for a song from the U.S but how on earth can we afford their upkeep? how many C-130s are left forlorn in our airbases for want of spareparts? or UH1 Hueys for that matter? Ok ok maybe a squadron of F16s would be plausible...can we afford the upkeep?..why not ask for the F4 Phantoms that were recently retired from the first gulf war instead...? what we need are realistic hardware for our internal security threats-?the REBELS..do you folks honestly think some outside force will invade our country that will justify trying to match the hardware list of Singapore or Malaysia?..NOPE...ok back to the internal threat thing. what we need are good and fast helos...the MD-500 Little Birds!!! we need more of them in different configurations. light gunships, special forces carriers (like blackhawk down), etc. We also need new transport planes i mean new C-130s and maybe even ask the US to help us upgrade some to Spectre or Spooky gunship variants (our paired down versions) forget the 105mm howitzers and chain guns lets just pack them with mini guns to keep it useful and simple to maintain and operate. After all who needs them 105mm howies the rebels dont have concrete bunker systems anyway right?. ground attack aircraft?...not really needed the helos can take care of that. we do not need A10 warthogs that spew depleted uranium rounds out of their gau avenger nose cannons nor the soviet era sukhoi frogfoots su-25. as our terrain is quite mountainous we also need transpo helos...forget the hueys lets invest in some chinooks or blackhawks...just the basic models forget the pavelow versions....these should suffice oh yeah and one last thing maybe P3 Orion or the older Aurora maritime patrol turboprop aircraft and of course paired with a small compact but modern and effective navy..forget destroyers what we need are fast patrol corvettes guided missile variants...thats all for now i guess..

 

[gforce]

Your reality check is kinda off topic because this thread talks about the next possible fighter jet for the Philippine Air Force not the AFP modernization in general.

why not ask for the F4 Phantoms that were recently retired from the first gulf war instead...?

You are proposing a maintenance-expensive fighter jet which is one of the very reason why it is now retired.

what we need are good and fast helos...the MD-500 Little Birds!!! we need more of them in different configurations. light gunships, special forces carriers (like blackhawk down), etc.

The Philippine Air Force has the MG-520 attack helicopter not the MD-500. By the way, Black Hawk Down is a movie. You must be referring to the Black Hawk helicopter used in that movie.

and maybe even ask the US to help us upgrade some to Spectre or Spooky gunship variants (our paired down versions)

You are proposing another expensive platform.

After all who needs them 105mm howies the rebels dont have concrete bunker systems anyway right?. ground attack aircraft?...not really needed the helos can take care of that. we do not need A10 warthogs that spew depleted uranium rounds out of their gau avenger nose cannons nor the soviet era sukhoi frogfoots su-25. as our terrain is quite mountainous we also need transpo helos...forget the hueys lets invest in some chinooks or blackhawks...just the basic models forget the pavelow versions....

The 105mm howitzers are not generally used to destroy concrete bunkers. It is also used to bombard enemy ground positions and heavy clusters of enemy forces. The MILF has concrete bunkers by the way as seen in Former President Estrada's invasion campaign against MILF camps. The use of ground attack aircraft will allow more bombs to be dropped which an attack helicopter cannot carry on a single mission. The Hueys on the other hand are necessary for light troop transport and medevac. I can't magine using a big helicopter for medevac? Or launching a fuel hungry heavy lift helicopter just to deploy 7 Rangers or Marine Force Recon.

these should suffice oh yeah and one last thing maybe P3 Orion or the older Aurora maritime patrol turboprop aircraft and of course paired with a small compact but modern and effective navy..

The Philippine Air Force's $150 million budget includes the acquisition of one long range maritime patrol aircraft (MPA).

.forget destroyers what we need are fast patrol corvettes guided missile variants...thats all for now i guess..

Do you know the cost of an anti-ship guided missile alone without the fire control system and launchers, etc.? What the Philippine Navy needs is a helicopter carrying fast patrol ship like OPVs. The Philippine Navy can launch the anti-ship missiles from the helicopters or use anti-ship torpedoes instead of guided missiles.

 

[hvl700]

Your reality check is kinda off topic because this thread talks about the next possible fighter jet for the Philippine Air Force not the AFP modernization in general.



You are proposing a maintenance-expensive fighter jet which is one of the very reason why it is now retired.
--ok good point on the Phantoms. Its just that we have always been "wanting" a jet fighter to replace our F5 freedom fighters. Do we really need expensive jets? is it practical for our real world use? forget the phantoms. Maybe consider the indigenous Taiwanese or Korean jets? If we really MUST have jets.



The Philippine Air Force has the MG-520 attack helicopter not the MD-500. By the way, Black Hawk Down is a movie. You must be referring to the Black Hawk helicopter used in that movie.

--no no I meant the MD500 family of helos. the Little Birds that the special forces were riding on the sides in. Ok UH-1s fine..but cant we at least buy them brand new or at least 5 year old at most....am pretty sure they are still being manufactured in different iterations in the U.S


You are proposing another expensive platform.



The 105mm howitzers are not generally used to destroy concrete bunkers. It is also used to bombard enemy ground positions and heavy clusters of enemy forces. The MILF has concrete bunkers by the way as seen in Former President Estrada's invasion campaign against MILF camps. The use of ground attack aircraft will allow more bombs to be dropped which an attack helicopter cannot carry on a single mission. The Hueys on the other hand are necessary for light troop transport and medevac. I can't magine using a big helicopter for medevac? Or launching a fuel hungry heavy lift helicopter just to deploy 7 Rangers or Marine Force Recon.

-- ok point taken. how about using the old and trusted Skyraiders for ground interdiction and fire support....yeah they may be turbo prop archaic but they were very effective in vietnam to think the VCs had SAM batteries SA-2s and the like which the MILFs obviously do not have....they are cheap and can carry heavy ordnance...throw in napalm too (bordering on humour already)


The Philippine Air Force's $150 million budget includes the acquisition of one long range maritime patrol aircraft (MPA).

--Yeah I know but as to when the Phil will actually physically buy some is anybodys guess....



Do you know the cost of an anti-ship guided missile alone without the fire control system and launchers, etc.? What the Philippine Navy needs is a helicopter carrying fast patrol ship like OPVs. The Philippine Navy can launch the anti-ship missiles from the helicopters or use anti-ship torpedoes instead of guided missiles.

-- I agree with you...Excocet missles on helos should do..makes sense but dude I just saw on
BBC that even the former Yugoslav federation member Montenegro has one really up-to-date frigate guided missile carrying....arent they supposed to be less financially capable than the Philippines...just curious...not familiar with former Yugoslav armed forces...

 

[gforce]

-- I agree with you...Excocet missles on helos should do..makes sense but dude I just saw on
BBC that even the former Yugoslav federation member Montenegro has one really up-to-date frigate guided missile carrying....arent they supposed to be less financially capable than the Philippines...just curious...not familiar with former Yugoslav armed forces...

Are you referring to the Kotor class anti-submarine frigate they got from the former Yugoslav Navy? Only one Kotor class frigate (RF-34) remains with the Montenegro Navy and is currently not-operational.

 

[Juramentado]

Are you referring to the Kotor class anti-submarine frigate they got from the former Yugoslav Navy? Only one Kotor class frigate (RF-34) remains with the Montenegro Navy and is currently not-operational.

It's wishful thinking for the PN to obtain missile-carrying combatants. Note the recent discussion over retired ADM Lyons' call to supply the RP with a pair of surplus OHPs. From a force structure perspective, it would be better if we could get four or even six smaller patrol ships (with helo decks if possible) and have self-defense RAM. That would increase effective patrol capabilities by another 15-20%! As much as the offer would be generous, the fact is that the RP is currently in need to get back to a patrol force level. Only then can we consider moving to a blue-water force structure. There's plenty of capability gaps to be filled. While I may sound rather ungrateful for the support, the RP has to pay fair-market value for the lease or use of any US military aid; that's one of the requirements of the Foreign Military Sales and assistance laws. As a US taxpayer, I need to see us getting that money back. So the RP wouldn't be getting the best bang for any buck with that deal.

Back on topic with the aircraft - sure, it would be great to get some F-16s. But in a conventional shooting war with China, a squadron (assuming 80% availability at the time the balloon went up) isn't going to make a dent against a dedicated invasion force. It's been a long while since anyone in the PAF has actively flown jet fighters (minus any exchange tours). We have a whole generation of pilots that need to be led-in back to flying tactical jets. That means trainers, and not just the five S211s that are barely flying today. A lead-in fighter that could double as a short-range strike and ADF would be the best bang for the buck. That wouldn't be US-made equipment by description alone.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

the Phlippines is not a really poor country, so i dont understand why its armed forces are so underfunded and weak compared to the size of the country...

 

[hvl700]

Are you referring to the Kotor class anti-submarine frigate they got from the former Yugoslav Navy? Only one Kotor class frigate (RF-34) remains with the Montenegro Navy and is currently not-operational.

-- not sure..it sure looked very operational to me a couple of days ago...not familiar with Balkan Weapons and Systems.

 

[Chino]

There may come a day when the Philippines can challenge China's claim of the Spratlys or Malaysia's ownership of Sabah.

But for now, they need the Spratlys or Sabah like an Arab need more sand.

Otherwise they do not face any external threats. And the US remains a potent deterrent, against foreign threats to the Philippines.

So no real pressing need for Filipino jet interceptors etc.

There are other areas much much more in need of funding for land and sea equipment to fight insugency and piracy. CAS and air transports as well.

 

[weasel1962]

Re:

Air basing.

The PAF could at least ensure there are sufficient bases on Luzon for rapid reinforcement if needed.

 

[Juramentado]

Air basing.

The PAF could at least ensure there are sufficient bases on Luzon for rapid reinforcement if needed.

In a conventional shooting war, the first (and only) responders will be Seventh Fleet. That means GW or any other "big-stick" deck available will be the only aviation strike assets available. It makes no sense to prepare and maintain an airbase that will take weeks or even months to allow an "air-head" of sufficient strike aircraft or even a logistical support train that could bring in some ground troop help. There are no active Expeditionary Wings in the region and the nearest Air Force units are in Japan - too long a leg even with tanker support to conduct significant interdiction operations.

Quite frankly, if the Chinese decide to go all out, they'll do so using MRBMs as part of the initial wave. They've made it a priority in force structure buildout to increase their Conventional Precision Strike capability (lessons learned from watching the West in GW1). Currently, they have at least several hundred MRBMs that easily hold targets in the Philippines at risk. It's a darn good bet that their war plans have big bullseyes painted on places like Basa, Villamor, heck probably the former FedEx logistical hub (Subic Bay) because it's got a fine 10,000 ft strip. Anything that might support strike, bomber and cargo aircraft will have a couple of MRBMs salted their way. By the time you get reinforcements over there, chances are that the selected landing zone is a big stinking hole of rubble.

Nope - if things go hot in this area of the world, it will be just as they teach at Strike University - a no-notice war at sea.

 

[Chino]

Another "China attacks Philippines" fantasy...

Please, tell me why, China will attack the Philippines?

 

[weasel1962]

Re:

In a conventional shooting war, the first (and only) responders will be Seventh Fleet. That means GW or any other "big-stick" deck available will be the only aviation strike assets available. It makes no sense to prepare and maintain an airbase that will take weeks or even months to allow an "air-head" of sufficient strike aircraft or even a logistical support train that could bring in some ground troop help. There are no active Expeditionary Wings in the region and the nearest Air Force units are in Japan - too long a leg even with tanker support to conduct significant interdiction operations.

Quite frankly, if the Chinese decide to go all out, they'll do so using MRBMs as part of the initial wave. They've made it a priority in force structure buildout to increase their Conventional Precision Strike capability (lessons learned from watching the West in GW1). Currently, they have at least several hundred MRBMs that easily hold targets in the Philippines at risk. It's a darn good bet that their war plans have big bullseyes painted on places like Basa, Villamor, heck probably the FedEx logistical airport (formerly Subic Bay) because it's got a fine 10,000 ft strip. Anything that might support strike, bomber and cargo aircraft will have a couple of MRBMs salted their way. By the time you get reinforcements over there, chances are that the selected landing zone is a big stinking hole of rubble.

Nope - if things go hot in this area of the world, it will be just as they teach at Strike University - a no-notice war at sea.

Good points. However, the PLA has the same thousands of MRBMs facing Taiwan, Okinawa, Japanese and South Korean bases defended by Patriots/Hawks and US fighters (USAF F-15s/F-16s, USMC F-18s not to mention the Korean/Japanese air forces).

Can't suppress every single base continuously.

The raptors at Guam/Hawaii/Elmendorf or even mainland US will need forward bases eventually if they're to get into the fight. So will the RAAF if they choose to join.

Clark air base was a significant loss to US presence in that part of the world after the volcanic eruption. Good time to re-instate/re-deploy eg from Europe.

The threat is no longer in Europe. What's the point of keeping F-15 squadrons at Lakenheath or F-16 squadrons in Italy/Germany if the threat is going to be in Asia?

 

[Juramentado]

Another "China attacks Philippines" fantasy...

Please, tell me why, China will attack the Philippines?

From a practical force perspective - you train for your expected opponents.

Moving from the theoretical to the historical record:

The 1985 PRC-RP ASEAN brokered agreement was not observed in Panganiban Reef by both China and Malaysia.

Judging from the 1988 conflict between China and Vietnam over the Johnston Reefs, we should assume that gentleman's rules will prevail and we can settle this amicably over a hand of Mahjong (Pinoy style of course)?

Also, let's look at the strategic declarations, - the 2004 and 2008 Defense White Papers released by the Chinese MND both tie together existing and emerging military capabilities with the "new and legacy historic missions" - not the least of which are the Disputed Territories which includes the Spratleys and Paracels.

I'm not one to beat war-drums for the sake of making a cool sound, but quite frankly, anyone who thinks that China cannot advance it's Strategic Initiatives beyond the second Island Chain (which covers the Philippines) without leveraging the use of their military capability is kidding themselves. It doesn't need to be an open declared war - insurgencies can be created, and conflicts can be fought through other means - most notably the various Chinese fishing fleets are known to scout and in some cases openly serve as a low-intensity tool. Cases in point - USNS Impeccable and the aforementioned Panganiban reefs incident. This is why I have been advocating that the AFP Force Structure revision has to get back to basics - a patrol craft navy and a defensive Air Force is within means both fiscally and from a capability build-up within the next ten years. Patrol and protect our territories. That also ties into enhancing Coast Watch South.

 

[Juramentado]

Good points. However, the PLA has the same thousands of MRBMs facing Taiwan, Okinawa, Japanese and South Korean bases defended by Patriots/Hawks and US fighters (USAF F-15s/F-16s, USMC F-18s not to mention the Korean/Japanese air forces).

Can't suppress every single base continuously.

The raptors at Guam/Hawaii/Elmendorf or even mainland US will need forward bases eventually if they're to get into the fight. So will the RAAF if they choose to join.

Clark air base was a significant loss to US presence in that part of the world after the volcanic eruption. Good time to re-instate/re-deploy eg from Europe.

The threat is no longer in Europe. What's the point of keeping F-15 squadrons at Lakenheath or F-16 squadrons in Italy/Germany if the threat is going to be in Asia?

The Japan and Taiwan BMD patrols are not in the right engagement zones to capture a missile basket over South China Sea - they're at least 1000 miles north of where the targets would be in Luzon and Palawan. They don't need to suppress the bases continuously - a couple of good hits on the main runways would be the ultimate kill. Destruction of control towers and tank farms - good enough for a mission kill.

I don't think ACC will redeploy assets from Europe until the conflict in SWA is truly stood down or the last troops have been pulled out.

What would be ironic is Vietnam becoming a base of operations once again for PACAF. They're in the right position to receive any CENTCOM reinforcements without having to transit the likely conflict zone. It could happen depending on how much Hanoi is willing to tweak Beijing.