Philippine Air Force Discussions and Updates

[SABRE]

Philippines Air Force Admits no Fighter Jets Until 2011

Source: DefenceTalk New
LINK: http://www.defencetalk.com/news/publish/article_004253.php

This may be a bad news for many here. But government gotta do what it gotta do.

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PAF Admits no Fighter Jets Until 2011
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Despite the need to acquire new military aircraft to effectively pursue its war against communist rebels and other internal security threats, Philippine Air Force commanding general Lt. Gen. Jose Reyes Jr. yesterday said the cash-strapped Armed Forces of the Philippines (AFP) has no choice but to make do with the PAF's existing resources, including jet fighters, until 2011 in combating the insurgents.

He admitted the country will have to make do without any air defense until 2011 when internal threats are hopefully addressed.

“As of now, our thrust is to clear our internal security problems. Once we're finished, that's the time we move on to the acquisition of these high-value items,” Reyes told reporters in a chance interview in Camp Aguinaldo.

“Fighter planes are very expensive. If you buy them, all of the resources of the military will be used up and we cannot afford that. At this time, we make do with what we have…the S2-11 trainers,” he said.

But the lack of air defense may further put the lives of the patrolling airmen at risk.

On Tuesday, three members of the Air Force were wounded in an encounter with communist rebels in Tiaong, Quezon.

The Airmen, all from the 730th Combat Group of 710th Special Operations Wing (SPOW), were members of a team sent out to check reports on the presence of insurgents in Cabatang village.

The SPOW team was patrolling along with police personnel when they encountered the undetermined number of heavily armed rebels.

In October, the Air Force decommissioned the last of the 37 F-5 or “Freedom Fighter” jets that it received from the United States.

Since then, the PAF has been making do with its five S2-11 trainer jets despite the aircraft's very limited fighter capability.

The F-5 jets saw action against leftist and Muslim insurgents and rebel soldiers who staged a coup d'etat against former President Corazon Aquino in 1989.

Air Force spokesman Lt. Col. Restituto Padilla said at present, they have 16 S2-11 jets in its inventory but only five are operational.

The S2-11 jets are being used to train fighter pilots and perform patrol and reconnaissance missions.

Earlier, Defense Secretary Avelino Cruz revealed they have set 2010 as target to eliminate all armed threats in the country that include guerrillas, Islamic militants and foreign terrorists.

Should the target be met, Reyes said, planning would start on the acquisition of new fighter planes.

He, however, would not say what aircraft models would be purchased.

“By 2011, these types of aircraft, the F-16s and the F-18s will already be obsolete. That's why as of now, we have not done any planning on what types of jets to acquire after this internal security problem,” Reyes stressed.

Though the Air Force is without fighter jets, he said, training for fighter pilots is continuing, even as he conceded that commercial airlines have attracted quite a number of military pilots lately.

Meanwhile, Reyes ordered the spot promotion to the next higher grade of three airmen who were wounded in an encounter in Tiaong, Quezon.

The PAF chief personally awarded the airmen with the Wounded Personnel Medal on Thursday at the Armed Forces Medical Center in recognition of their bravery despite injuries sustained from the communist rebels.

The airmen were identified as A1C Constantino Baral, A1C Rodel Bongar and A2C Mario Garcia who were immediately airlifted to AFP Medical Center in Quezon City for treatment.

An undetermined number of insurgents were also wounded during the skirmish.
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[Brit]

Re: PAF Admits no Fighter Jets Until 2011

Knowing people who have worked for aid projects over there, that sounds a very sensible prioritisation. To many developing countries over spend on military equipment whilst their populations live in poverty.

Warning: thinking aloud with no back up research beyond general knowledge
But isn't there a twist whereby some of the "freedom fighter" groups are Al Qeada linked (If I recall rightly, about 5% of Filipinos are muslim). That suggests that Bush should be inclined towards military/paramilitary aid. If so the filipinos shouldn't get jets, rather Hueys and Broncos from US surplus stocks.

 

[WebMaster]

Re: PAF Admits no Fighter Jets Until 2011

Kashif, wake up.

PAF is also Phillipines Air Force. Read the whole article, it doesn't talk about Pakistan.

 

[KGB]

Re: Philippines AF Admits no Fighter Jets Until 2011

That would be a sensible move, considering that the Armed Forces of the Philippines is mostly engaged in counterinsurgency. The PAF would do better to concentrate its resources on transports, helos, etc.

 

[Paxter]

Re: Philippines AF Admits no Fighter Jets Until 2011

Yeah i agree it is more sensible to put what funds is there into a force able to fight a counter insurgency... better intel, good helis and transports and able infantry is much better then fighters for this type of warfare... it took malaysia from the 60s to the late 80s to get rid of the communist (Tq anzac) and only in recent years you see the malaysian army converting into a conventional force -mbt,subs,frigates,jets, etc

its an irony though they use to have an able fighter force and during the turmoil years after indipencence (malaysia) they were sending their fighters into sabah airspace to show their domination that ended with some aa guns place in sabah

 

[KGB]

Re: Philippines AF Admits no Fighter Jets Until 2011

its an irony though they use to have an able fighter force and during the turmoil years after indipencence (malaysia) they were sending their fighters into sabah airspace to show their domination that ended with some aa guns place in sabah

The 1970's is an interesting time for that area, but with very little information available. The Philippines was pressing a claim for Sabah, while the Malaysians were supporting a Muslim insurgency in the Philippine south. Very bloody, and very secret since the Philippines was under totalitarian control then.

The Philippine air force's steady decline is related to the economy, however it must be noted that the armed forces is notoriously corrupt. The insurgents buy much of their ammo from corrupt officers.

 

[adroth]

That would be a sensible move, considering that the Armed Forces of the Philippines is mostly engaged in counterinsurgency. The PAF would do better to concentrate its resources on transports, helos, etc.

That is indeed what's been happening. With the retirement of our F-5s, funds have been freed up for other more relevant equipment.

Recent efforts have brought our C-130 fleet back to 5 units. At the turn of the century we were down to just one over-used Herc. With the reprioritization of funds, and the opening of a Lockheed Martin subsidiary in the Philippines, we may be in a better position to recover more Hercs from our C-130 graveyard on Mactan island.

We've begun converting our UH-1s to the Huey II standard. The first one went through the formal conversion process with the rather expensive certification process. Now the PAF has undertaken its own conversion without Bell help -- hence lacking the token certification. Subject to available funding, we are able to convert all our Hueys to this standard.

Too make sure that we don't lose jet maintenance skills, we still maintain our fleet of S211s, which are currently used for close-air support missions; primary jet training; as well as reconnaisance missions over the Spratlys.

On the acquisitions end, the Department of National Defense is currently sitting on funds for the next attack helicopter acquisition. At the moment, its a toss up between second hand AH-1 Cobras from the US, or brand new MD520s (or even the 530).

 

[Francis]

It is sad to hear that the Philippine Air Force and Military are in need of funds and supplies due to the corruption in the Goverement and the Military itself . This would cause a great drop in morale and combat effectiveness

 

[adroth]

It is sad to hear that the Philippine Air Force and Military are in need of funds and supplies due to the corruption in the Goverement and the Military itself . This would cause a great drop in morale and combat effectiveness

Corruption is not the only story to be had in the PAF. :flash

The fact that the service is still conducting combat operations given the budget limitations and . . . "diversion of funds" . . . is proof enough that there are people in that service who are doing their jobs.

Corruption is also not the only reason for under funding. There are a host of other government programs that are in need of funding.

 

[Francis]

Corruption is not the only story to be had in the PAF. :flash

The fact that the service is still conducting combat operations given the budget limitations and . . . "diversion of funds" . . . is proof enough that there are people in that service who are doing their jobs.

Corruption is also not the only reason for under funding. There are a host of other government programs that are in need of funding.

thank you for the reply , but it is sad that the once powerful Philippine Air Force has been reduced to an ill - equiped air force
is there any hope left?

 

[caksz]

thank you for the reply , but it is sad that the once powerful Philippine Air Force has been reduced to an ill - equiped air force
is there any hope left?

After they took care of their internal probs and some time to relax by mother nature ... maybe

 

[adroth]

thank you for the reply , but it is sad that the once powerful Philippine Air Force has been reduced to an ill - equiped air force
is there any hope left?

For so long as the country exists, there will be hope.

One interesting development is how ordinary Filipinos are actually getting a chance to help their own armed forces. The Israelis are not the only people on the planet who pitch in to help in the defense of the motherland.

When the PAF Flying School was at a particularly bad low point (it actually stopped operating at one point), the CO of the school, with the help of IT professionals put together a system of PC-based simulators that helped train students on particular aspects of flying. Its not the kind of 3D motion simulators that the USAF uses, and they're not much to look at. But they utilize non-operational aircraft parts for realism, and they do the job. You can see a discussion about this on Timawa.net here: http://timawa.net/forum/index.php?topic=2077.0

Some of the participants of the program sent me some of the baseline model work that they did. They've replicated everything from PAF planes to the PAFFS base.

The project was so successful that they've actually started doing work for other PAF units. Note, the Filipino civilians are doing this for the PAF FOR FREE. Patriotism still exists in the Philippines.

 

[rjmaz1]

“Fighter planes are very expensive. If you buy them, all of the resources of the military will be used up and we cannot afford that."

Wow thats the first time ive heard a general say that.

I wish Australian Defence could admit the same thing. Instead we have every section of defence stabbing each other in the back in an attempt to get as much money and equipment as possible. :lul

 

[gf0012-aust]

I wish Australian Defence could admit the same thing. Instead we have every section of defence stabbing each other in the back in an attempt to get as much money and equipment as possible. :lul

In australias case we've had over 20 years of various governments who have deferred or delayed critical projects. Now we're at the block obsolesence stage where all are competing and need attending to budget dollars.

its not as simple as that.

 

[contedicavour]

Why doesn't the US hand over some used and not updated F16s in some ANG inventory ? It would at least preserve some air cover over the Philippines. Yes, counterinsurgency is a priority. However, who handles for instance PLAN aircrafts flying above disputed islands ? Since the closing of Subic Bay and the other US armed forces facilities, the Philippine airspace is open to whoever wants to fly over it.

cheers

 

[weasel1962]

Re:

Deleted

 

[adroth]

Why doesn't the US hand over some used and not updated F16s in some ANG inventory ? It would at least preserve some air cover over the Philippines. Yes, counterinsurgency is a priority. However, who handles for instance PLAN aircrafts flying above disputed islands ? Since the closing of Subic Bay and the other US armed forces facilities, the Philippine airspace is open to whoever wants to fly over it.

cheers

The cost of operating a handful of F-16s would skew the AFP budget too much. When we retired our F-5s, it actually did wonders for the other systems. It allowed us to bring back C-130s that were in storage, and freed up funds for our Huey II program.

What we need to focus on are weapons that can be used for current threats -- both internal and external. I'd rather that we spend the money on getting more of what we have plus real maritime patrol aircraft.

At this point, smugglers and poachers are a bigger problem than PLAN muscle-flexing.

 

[Cuddly]

Why doesn't the US hand over some used and not updated F16s in some ANG inventory ? It would at least preserve some air cover over the Philippines. Yes, counterinsurgency is a priority. However, who handles for instance PLAN aircrafts flying above disputed islands ? Since the closing of Subic Bay and the other US armed forces facilities, the Philippine airspace is open to whoever wants to fly over it.

cheers

Agree. Each country must prepare for the worst scenario that can change rapidly lead into the war.
If I am not mistaken, on 2009 F-5S/T RSAF and F-5E/F MACAN TNI-AU will be decommissioned. Sure not too modern, nevertheless it is useless to counter modern fighter jets but its at least can perform CAP over the disputed Spratley islands.

Considering a brotherhood senses/ solidarity of ASEAN member, may lead to a free of charges transfer of these AC. IMHO it is reasonable to choose this AC as the interim fighter because PAF already has experienced to operate the F-5 family. PAF may still has some spareparts of Freedom Fighters that some can be used by new version F-5. It will also keeping the pilot moral high, maintain their skill that will be helpful in future if they get brand new jets. Moreover it is needs at least 3 years after the contract is signed to put all brand new fighter jets into the service, its mean on 2014 PAF maybe will receive its new fighters and until to that time, Philippine still has an “open/ free air space”.

Is PAF still operating the OV-10 Bronco? For COIN operations, the OV-10 Bronco is ideal to loiter above insurgents position in deep jungle, straffing them with M-60/M2HB machine guns or with FFAR. Aided with UAV/ SOF units to pin point target, the Bronco can launch a precision attack to the target. To provide a more great punch, its nice to get some AC-130 Spectre into the PAF inventory.

rgds,

 

[weasel1962]

Re:

Deleted

 

[adroth]

Is PAF still operating the OV-10 Bronco? For COIN operations, the OV-10 Bronco is ideal to loiter above insurgents position in deep jungle, straffing them with M-60/M2HB machine guns or with FFAR. Aided with UAV/ SOF units to pin point target, the Bronco can launch a precision attack to the target. To provide a more great punch, its nice to get some AC-130 Spectre into the PAF inventory.

Yup, we still have our Broncos, they're currently going through a service life extension program. However, combat losses have required conversion of some training S211s into the CAS role.

Re the AC-130. If ever we get a Herc, we'd be in better off using them as transports. After years of just living on one or two functional Hercs, we're now finally up to five, with the possibility of activating more.

We need transports.