Welcome to DefenceTalk.com Forum!

By registering with us, you'll be able to discuss, share and private message with other members of our community.

  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Philippine Air Force Discussions and Updates

Discussion in 'Air Force & Aviation' started by SABRE, Nov 24, 2005.

Share This Page

  1. colay

    colay New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2006
    Messages:
    784
    Likes Received:
    0
    I grew up in Nichols Air Base and have many fond memories of the Blue Diamonds and various guest aerobatic teams.. brings back good memories and hopefully it is the beginning of a renaissance.
     
  2. ManilaBoy

    ManilaBoy Banned Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2010
    Messages:
    230
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Planet Earth
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2012
  3. colay

    colay New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2006
    Messages:
    784
    Likes Received:
    0
    Interesting that the PAF will be getting 3 new radars, presumably these would be part of the US commitment to set up a National Coast Watch Center. A good start with hopefully more to follow considering the length of the Philippine coastline.

    Air force eyeing new bases | BusinessWorld Online Edition

    The department has targeted to approve 138 modernization projects by the end of July, including three radars systems, 21 utility helicopters, 10 attack helicopters, four additional search-and-rescue helicopters, two long-range patrol aircraft, a special mission aircraft, three medium-lift aircraft and 12 lead-in fighters. These are expected to boost the air power in the next two years.
     
  4. dazzerler1

    dazzerler1 Banned Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2012
    Messages:
    47
    Likes Received:
    0

    This is an excellent news for the Philippines. The sooner the better, although it will not be enough for minimal defensive purposes at this time based on previous study posted here in this forum. The PAF must start somewhere so this is a very good running start. Hopefully other infrastructures are commencing in parallel to the acquisition of these five types of aircraft. I would think that pilots had already been selected to undergo the required training on these aircrafts? The PAF should be sending these pilots to South Korea to get acquianted/trained with the TA50 so when the planes are delivered that the PAF will have trained pilots already. At least that is how I will plan this acquisition if I were in-charge of the PAF. Of course this will depend on the type of acquisition contract between the Philippines and South Korea. Anymore news on the acquisition of other naval assets in addition to the second Hamilton?
     
  5. ManilaBoy

    ManilaBoy Banned Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2010
    Messages:
    230
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Planet Earth
    The PAF is currently in a transitional stage which means it would not be possible for them to jump right into a MRF aircraft without going tru training future pilots and an advanced LIFT aircraft is the most feasible alternative during this rebuilding period ...
     
  6. dazzerler1

    dazzerler1 Banned Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2012
    Messages:
    47
    Likes Received:
    0

    This is pure speculation on my part but I would assume that the Philippine government went through an selection process and probably had some type of scoring matrics that they assigned for every fighter that were being considered or evaluated? Again, that criteria is privy to the PAF and high ranking officials that made the decision on what aircraft they purchased. I suppose the criteria that were established and considered were up-front cost or initial purchase price, maintenance costs, aircraft's predicted reliability and maintainability, ease of acquiring repair components, cost or ease of maintenance, training of personnel that are responsible for upkeep of the aircraft, initial training of pilots, support from manufacturer, and expected or predicted life of aircraft (durability aspect), etc.

    What is cheap based on low initial cost/price may not be cheap at all down the road. Therefore, everything is relative and each potential aircraft purchaser must do the cost-benifit analyses.
     
  7. ManilaBoy

    ManilaBoy Banned Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2010
    Messages:
    230
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Planet Earth
    I believed both aircraft are classified as MRF if I'm not mistaken and are definitely not in the advanced trainer category ...
     
  8. dazzerler1

    dazzerler1 Banned Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2012
    Messages:
    47
    Likes Received:
    0
    At this stage, the wheel is already in motion for the Philippines to acquire LIFT from South Korea. SK could have given the RP lots of incentives to procure the TA50? Again pure speculation. However, some rumors are going around that they might get some naval assets from SK with the acquisition of the TA50?
     
  9. ManilaBoy

    ManilaBoy Banned Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2010
    Messages:
    230
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Planet Earth
    Here is the link to the official video from the DND of the PAF 65th founding anniversary celebration that was held last friday, the aircrafts flybys does not start until the 27 minute mark so you might want to forward it unless you want to see the bands and cheerleaders too ...

    DND-OPA - Philippine Air Force 65th Anniversary - 6 July 2012 - YouTube
     
  10. Andri F

    Andri F Banned Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2012
    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    0
    For future MRFs, many have something to say and the top three fighters I keep hearing and reading are the F-16, the SAAB JAS 39, and the F-35.
    Now I’ll show my analysis on this based on what I know:
    The first barrier is the price and availability. With the meager resources being devoted to the defense needs, the F-35 is out. There’s even no concrete guarantee (correct me if I’m wrong) that the US government will avail us such an advance fighter without the intensification of the “provocations” by China.

    The second barrier is interoperability with the USAF aircrafts (since they are our treaty allies and we may need each other in contingencies or outbreak of hostilities) and the F-16 immediately passed the barrier. I don’t know about the Gripen so could somebody correct me if it seems like I wrongly infer that the Gripen couldn’t operate smoothly with the 5th generation USAF assets.

    So that leaves the F-16 family. And in my opinion, buying older F-16s now then upgrading them later will not be fully beneficial or economical. We could prepare for the jets and their future pilots now then buy the F-16s later. I’m eyeing the F-16V especially since it could interoperate with USAF F-22s and F-35s more smoothly. [I'll give the links ASAP when I'm allowed to post links]
    Let’s just hope the V model could be finished by 2015 and we could buy it before 2016 comes or else the F-16 production line will close by 2016 if no purchase is made by 2015. [I'll give the links when I'm allowed to post links. Here's the content: The Lockheed Martin F-16 Fighting Falcon has been around for over three decades and so far there have been nearly 4,500 delivered. The F-16 will continue for many years to come and Lockheed Martin has today unveiled a new version called F-16V. The new version of the fighter jet was unveiled at the Singapore Airshow and has new feature enhancements to make the aircraft more formidable.

    The F-16 V gets new active electronically scanned array radar (AESA), an upgraded mission computer and architecture, along with improvements inside the cockpit. Lockheed Martin says that all of those new features are things that have been identified by the USAF and international buyers as needing improvement. The AESA radar promises significant capability improvements for the aircraft and Lockheed Martin has developed a solution to affordably retrofit the new radar to existing F-16s.

    The new F-16V configuration is now an option for new production aircraft with most elements of the upgrade available for earlier F-16s. The V designation comes from Viper, which is the nickname pilots have given the F-16 since it entered service.

    “We believe this F-16V will satisfy our customers’ emerging requirements and prepare them to better interoperate with the 5th generation fighters, the F-35 and F-22,” said George Standridge, Lockheed Martin Aeronautics’ vice president of business development.

    Today 26 different countries fly the F-16 and it is hailed as the world's most successful fourth-generation fighter. The upgraded AESA radar will also help F-16V to be more interoperable with fifth-generation fighters like the F-35 and F-22. The USAF is reportedly interested in upgrading between 300 and 350 of its F-16s to the new version.

    Lockheed Martin has an order from Iraq that is large enough to keep F-16 production line open until the end of 2015; after that it needs additional orders to keep F-16 production going into 2016. ]
     
  11. icefrog

    icefrog New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2012
    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    0
    Philippines tries very hard to observe the One-China policy and so will not be able to buy fighter jets from Taiwan. Years ago Taiwan wanted to donate their entire fleet of F5s to the Philippines but Philippines could not accept those even if they sorely need it because they want to observe the One-China policy.

    The JF-17 is from China. If Pakistan is able to locally make those planes it is most likely licensed to them by China. Philippines and China are currently in a heated argument over the Scarborough/Panatag shoal. Even if they will be able to resolve their current spat, I doubt their is going to be trust to buy Chinese-made fighter jets.
     
  12. ADMk2

    ADMk2 Just a bloke Staff Member Verified Defense Pro

    Joined:
    May 19, 2011
    Messages:
    2,362
    Likes Received:
    42

    The Gripen will interface with US systems just fine, assuming the PAF specifies US spec radios, data-links (Link 16 - MIDS-LVT) and weapons (AMRAAM, Sidewinder, Paveway II/III, Enhanced Paveway II and Maverick missiles primarily, to guarantee resupply during operations).

    The other option is ex-European airforces F-16's. Both the Netherlands and Belgium (and possibly Norway and Denmark) have significant quantities of useful second hand F-16 airframes available, that have already been upgraded quite significantly.

    Opting for these may allow PAF to acquire reasonable numbers (24-36) fighters and bring them up to F-16V type standards with domestic build programs included to boost local industry.

    Such would have to be spread across quite a few years by the nature of the work and to ease funding constraints, but provides a very viable capability at a low cost, and has already been demonstrably effective as seen with Chile, undertaking a similar acquisition.
     
  13. ManilaBoy

    ManilaBoy Banned Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2010
    Messages:
    230
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Planet Earth
    Current active aircrafts of the PAF , hopefully more pictures will be added to this gallery in the months to come as additional air assets are scheduled to arrive in the next few years ...

    Philippine Air Force :: Official Website
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2012
  14. Andri F

    Andri F Banned Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2012
    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    0
    I've been thinking about this and I think its no.
    No. 1 The F-CK-1.
    If we buy it, China may think its an insult that we bought fighter jets from a "rebellious" province (Taiwan) without its "consent". That might make things worse.

    No. 2 The JF-17
    Very capable aircraft but with the possibility of China becoming our enemy, I don't think the Philippines will consider a fighter China has a hand in making since China may know its full capabilities and limits and how to defeat it.
     
  15. T.C.P da Devil

    T.C.P da Devil New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2009
    Messages:
    614
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Dhaka,Bangladesh
    The Flying hours left on European F16s are way longer than the hours left on ex USAF air craft.

    For PAF, Ex European F-16s seem to be the best option, as they can't go for Russian air craft due to political reasons.
     
  16. icefrog

    icefrog New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2012
    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    0
    Philippines already abandoned the idea of getting 2nd-hand F-16s for reasons they think it's not to worth the money refurbishing it vis-a-vis it's remaining flight hours and high maintenance of an "ageing" plane.

    They are now looking into non-US planes from SK, Italy, France, UK and believe it or not some articles also mentioned Russian planes. Both 2nd-hand and b-new would be considered since a few b-new planes now such as Korea's FA-50 are roughly the same price range of a 2nd-hand F-16.

    So, unless they reversed this recent decision or it's really just posturing to get a better deal for those F-16s we have to move on from the 2nd-hand F-16s idea for now.

    Their budget is and I quote the PH President:

    PH junks plan to buy 'ageing' F16s - InterAksyon.com

    DND eyes second-hand jets, gunboats from other countries - The Philippine Star » News » Headlines

    Air Force may buy non-US-made fighter jets
     
  17. ManilaBoy

    ManilaBoy Banned Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2010
    Messages:
    230
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Planet Earth
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2012
  18. ADMk2

    ADMk2 Just a bloke Staff Member Verified Defense Pro

    Joined:
    May 19, 2011
    Messages:
    2,362
    Likes Received:
    42
    Several airforces around the world (Portugal and Chile) aren't that concerned about the airframe left on these aircraft apparently (having already bought considerable numbers) and many airforces (USAF, Netherlands, Taiwan and Pakistan notably) are running significant F-16 life extension programs, which provide a fairly cost effective option and offer up to 50% more airframe life. At 200 hours per year (a fairly high usage rate) that gives you 20 more years of effective life...

    The USAF is about to increase about 300x F-16's to 12,000 hour airframe life spans, due to F-35 delays. I imagine it would be rather cost effective to run 24 upgraded fighters off the back of such an upgrade too.

    With a bit of creative thinking, it might be possible to establish a local upgrade facility and perhaps run some Korean or Japanese based USAF F-16's through a joint upgrade program, to make it economically viable and improve domestic aerospace capability as well as your own ability to support modern fighter aircraft.

    Alternatively piggy-backing onto Taiwan's F-16 upgrade may provide a useful secondary option, that would allow a fairly handy aircraft if your country pursued all the options, including AESA radar etc.
     
  19. icefrog

    icefrog New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2012
    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    0
    They can piggy-back onto South Korea's F-16 upgrade instead plus Korea's F-16 C/Ds are newer than Taiwan's A/B airframes. It would be a lot cheaper to upgrade and refurbish a less used C/D airfame than all the way from a more-used A/B airframe. Also, despite the Philippines' and China current "arguments", Phils. still follows the One-China policy and it would be impossible for China not to know any back-door agreements and that would only increase tensions and distrust further.
     
  20. Ananda

    Ananda Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2008
    Messages:
    1,849
    Likes Received:
    123
    All F-16 A/B that coming from 1988 onwards already delivered as F-16 OCU. That included F-16 A/B being used by Thailand, Singapore (now already transferred to Thailand), Indonesia, and Taiwan. For Taiwan, their A/B are among the last A/B produced by Lockheed and being produced parallel with block 25/30/32 C/D. Taiwan F-16 A/B has the same age with ROKAF F-16 C/D, and with ROKAF and Taiwan AF used their F-16 extensively, I bet they also have similar flight hours.

    Taiwan plan upgrade for their F-16 A/B is very extensive which also include AESA radar. It's very expensive and extensive upgrade, that PAF will be 'very lucky' if it can piggy back with the project (if US and Taiwan allowed it).