Pakistan Air Force [PAF] News and Discussions

ADMk2

Just a bloke
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
What would be the combat radius of JF-17 with 1 aerial refueling from Il-78MP?
How much fuel are they taking on-board? What sort of specific fuel consumption (SFC) does the JF-17 have? Can the JF-17 refuel it's external fuel tanks whilst inflight?

What flight profile does their mission dictate? LO, Medium, High? A mixture of these? (hi, lo, hi etc).

What external stores loads are they carrying? Big external fuel tanks? An external targetting pod and/or a navigation pod, recce pod etc? Heavy air to ground or anti-ship missile stores? Relatively light air to air loadouts? What are the drag implications of these stores and what effect does that have on fuel burn?

What speeds are they reaching? Efficient high subsonic cruise profiles or heavy acceleration, high speed with afterburner use? Are they carrying supersonic rated external stores?

How long are they expecting to remain on-station for their assigned mission?

What contingency fuel do they plan to retain for their return flight? What are the PAF's requirements for reserve fuel for landing in case they need to divert or make an additional pass due to a delay on the airfield?

What is the maximum landing weight for the JF-17? Will they have to dump fuel prior to landing?

All of these things have to be answered before "the range or radius" can be determined. Unless all these things can be answered, stating what a particular aircraft's "range or radius" is, is absolutely futile and useful for nothing more than nationalistic chest-beating.
 

PhilTheBeloved

New Member
Could JF-17's sensor fusion system combine data relayed from AWACs with the data acquired by JF-17's own sensors into a single package and display everything onto the 3 MDFs? Anyone know?
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Could JF-17's sensor fusion system combine data relayed from AWACs with the data acquired by JF-17's own sensors into a single package and display everything onto the 3 MDFs? Anyone know?

what sensor fusion system is on the JF-17?
what acquisition systems are on the JF-17?
are they passive/active?
what is the current function of the MDF's?

it's not a digital tv, you just can't start sending overlays and track data onto the MDF unless its able to receive and said data in its display in the first place
 

PhilTheBeloved

New Member
what sensor fusion system is on the JF-17?
what acquisition systems are on the JF-17?
are they passive/active?
what is the current function of the MDF's?

it's not a digital tv, you just can't start sending overlays and track data onto the MDF unless its able to receive and said data in its display in the first place
Suppose the coordinates of a target given by JF-17's own radar are the same as the coordinates relayed by an AWAC, the target would appear as a single dot on the screen? Wouldn't it be a huge cluster suppose an AWAC relays 50 or so tracked targets?
 

jaychristian457

New Member
Pakistans advancement in production of parts of Boeing will generate more jobs in
that particular field.Also, it will generate revenue or income for the country and elevate the image amongst the developing nations.
 

P.A.F

New Member
Just a quick video i made. Enjoy

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yn6ug3UJUiE"]Pakistan Military "Fight with Full Thrust & Might!" - YouTube[/nomedia]
 

jaychristian457

New Member
I think Pakistan's military strategies are bold.Though it is continually trying to rectify its political problem, it has not shown a sign of reluctance in improving its defence tactics.
 

dragonfire

New Member
Hi,

Questions regarding the PAF

When are the Mirage III/V and the Chengdu F-7s being retired.

Is the PAF going to maintain only JF-17, F-16 and J-10 post retirement of aforementioned types.
 

SURB

Member
I'm looking at the image of karakoram eagle ,the Y-8F600 platform with a rotodome & related gadgets on and trying to figure out will a safe dirt or grass landing be possible for this aircraft once the time comes?
Enlarging the scope of my query, can a similar AWACS platform safely land on a dirt track just like a C-130 or does it take more than some incredible piloting skills?

View attachment 5955
 

ADMk2

Just a bloke
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
I'm looking at the image of karakoram eagle ,the Y-8F600 platform with a rotodome & related gadgets on and trying to figure out will a safe dirt or grass landing be possible for this aircraft once the time comes?
Enlarging the scope of my query, can a similar AWACS platform safely land on a dirt track just like a C-130 or does it take more than some incredible piloting skills?

View attachment 5955
I would imagine that it would be an enormous risk to the delicate electronics on such an aircraft to attempt to land it on a grass or dirt airfield.

It would seem to me only a choice that would have to be made if things were about to go catastrophically wrong anyway, otherwise they'd be run from normal paved runways.
 

SURB

Member
I would imagine that it would be an enormous risk to the delicate electronics on such an aircraft to attempt to land it on a grass or dirt airfield.

It would seem to me only a choice that would have to be made if things were about to go catastrophically wrong anyway, otherwise they'd be run from normal paved runways.
That's quite reasonable and acceptable logic to which i find myself in full agreement.But considering that most of the equipment will be having a support of shock proof environment, does the disc on the dorsum of the fuselage alters the aerodynamic profile while landing or taking off.I mean that's an exposed structure ,all open for drag and does exert stress on the platform.(BTW the karakoram eagle isn't carrying a rotating disc and it's mentioned that it's fitted with open architecture electronics- that means the swapping or upgrading will not pose as a bigger problem. But will it compromise the characteristics of the overall assembly as being a very good shock absorber.I know that they individually test almost everything for survival in harsh conditions before fixing it on board but still..... )
Will that matter and if yes, then how?
 

ADMk2

Just a bloke
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
That's quite reasonable and acceptable logic to which i find myself in full agreement.But considering that most of the equipment will be having a support of shock proof environment, does the disc on the dorsum of the fuselage alters the aerodynamic profile while landing or taking off.I mean that's an exposed structure ,all open for drag and does exert stress on the platform.(BTW the karakoram eagle isn't carrying a rotating disc and it's mentioned that it's fitted with open architecture electronics- that means the swapping or upgrading will not pose as a bigger problem. But will it compromise the characteristics of the overall assembly as being a very good shock absorber.I know that they individually test almost everything for survival in harsh conditions before fixing it on board but still..... )
Will that matter and if yes, then how?
Fixing a multi-ton rotating dome or indeed any AEW&C radar system, onto an airframe is going to add stresses to that airframe and will add drag and negatively effect the aerodynamic characteristics of the airframe.

Yes, the airframe will be reinforced and bolstered where necessary to support the extra weight, but there are always operating limits and the Y-8 is known to have some aerodynamic and stall issues at the best of times. The manufacturers of the Y-8 even sort help from Lockheed Martin at one point to try and correct these issues.

I would suggest because of these issues, that whatever rough field capability the Y-8 possesses, is absent in any AEW&C / AWACS version of the aircraft.
 

mysterious

New Member
A lot has happened since the last post in this thread.

Pakistan has begun manufacturing the JF-17 Block II aircraft, the first squadron will be equipped with these fighter jets from Spring 2015 onwards. Jane's reported on Block II aircraft being under production back in June 2014.

First Block 2 JF-17s under construction in Pakistan - IHS Jane's 360

Pakistan is also banking on finally exporting the fighter jet it built in partnership with China.

With new JF-17, Pakistan aims for boost to defence exports - Pakistan - DAWN.COM

Nigerian Air Force seems to be the most talked about customer for the JF-17 fighter jets. As quoted in Pakistani print media,

IHS Jane’s Defense Weekly quoted Pakistan officials that the NAF finalized its recommendation for the purchase of 25-40 JF-17s after NAF chief air marshal Adesola Nunayon Amosu, visited Pakistan in October. Amosu’s engagements in Pakistan included a visit to the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) at Kamra, north of Islamabad, where the JF-17 is manufactured.
Nigeria buying JF-17 Thunder fighter aircraft from Pakistan


On the other hand, it was reported that Pakistan was in discussions with China for the purchase of up to 40 FC-31 (export designation for J-31) twin-engined stealth fighter jets unveiled at the Airshow China 2014 in Zhuhai (yes, the one that looks like the F-22 Raptor).

Airshow China 2014: Pakistan in talks to buy '30-40 FC-31s' - IHS Jane's 360

However, PAF air chief has dismissed this as jumping the gun. He stated in an interview that PAF may well purchase the FC-31 in the future, but presently the JF-17, F-16s and possibly J-10Bs should be enough.

With that said, the $1.4b deal Pakistan signed with China to purchase 36 J-10B Vigorous Dragon aircraft has been put on hold for the time being given Pakistan's economic constraints.

Pakistan Deal for Chinese J-10 Fighters Uncertain | Defense News | defensenews.com
 

mysterious

New Member
Pakistan successfully tests first indigenous armed drone: ISPR - The Express Tribune

Well, this is interesting. Looking at the pictures in the link above seems like it is a variant of the Chinese CH-3 UCAV, sold to Nigeria as well, one of which crashed a while back with its missiles intact.

Not sure if Pakistan got a ToT from China or as claimed by Pakistan, a local firm manufactured it using a proven design - which is not the same as getting ToT from elsewhere.

The missile seems to be entry level, basic one, not something like the American Predators & Reapers carry (Hellfire).

Would be nice if someone more learned can shed more light on this.
 

88a

New Member
China's new early warning aircraft can track 60 targets
Staff Reporter 2015-04-12 12:31 (GMT+8)

http://www.wantchinatimes.com/newsphoto/2015-04-12/450/KJ500-174244_copy1.jpg

A Chinese KJ-500 early warning aircraft. (Internet photo)

China's new KJ-500 early warning aircraft, designed by Shaanxi Aircraft Corporation, is capable of tracking about 60 aircraft within a range of 470 kilometers, according to the Washington-based Strategy Page.

With a round radar dome on the top of the fuselage, the KJ-500 looks more like a US early warning aircraft replica. It is distinguished by a smaller frame and a design based on the Y-9 four-engine turboprop aircraft.

The KJ-500 will eventually replace the People's Liberation Army Air Force's 11 KJ-200, carried by the smaller Y-8 aircraft with a long box-like radar.

In addition to the aircraft under Chinese service, three export versions of the KJ-200, known as the ZDK-03, have been provided to the Pakistan Air Force.

The development of Chinese early warning aircraft began in the 1990s when the United States stopped Israel from selling the Phalcon, developed with American technology, to China. Around the same time, Beijing purchased four Russian-built A-50 early warning aircraft, developed based on Il-76 cargo plane, and converted them to equip radar systems similar to the KJ-200.

China is not satisfied with the technology yet, but claims that it has a better phased array radar system than Phalcon.
 

PakShaheen79

New Member
Pakistsan Air Force [PAF] News and Discussions

PAF's Ambitious Plan to Replace 190 Fighters till 2020

By Shahzad Masood Roomi

PAF has announced an ambitious plan to replace 190 of its fighter planes by 2020. This has been confirmed for the first time by senior officials to daily Dawn. In that respect PAF is looking to secure 10 more advanced F-16s C/D Block 52 from the US after concluding the ongoing deal of 8 aircraft. Keeping in mind the resistance current deal faced, it is obvious that Pakistani government will have to do some aggressive and effective diplomacy in Washington. Officials have hinted that PAF is looking to maintain a fighter fleet of 350-400 modern multi-role jets.

UK based Jane’s Defence Weekly reported earlier this week that Pakistan would seek to purchase these 10 aircraft if the current deal for eight jets is successfully concluded. US senate has already rejected a motion to block the deal but the US lawmakers who are opposing the deal are still determined to block the deal sighting issues like punishment of Shakeel Afraidi and Pakistan's ineffectiveness against transnational terrorism instigating from its soil.

On Saturday, the 30-day mandatory period, that allows Congress to block an arms sale to a foreign country, also passed. Although some technical details are still being worked out, the deal for these eight aircraft is almost final.

Sighting the resistance by some US lawmakers during the current deal, PAF officials have hinted that F-16s are not the only option for replacements but they are also looking at French and Russian options. “That’s why we are looking at other options too, such as buying them from Russia or France.” The official noted that while French planes were “very expensive, the Russians are not and they are equally good”.

Last year, it was reported that PAF was offered from Russia to by state of the art SU-35 heavy multi-role fighters. This comment by PAF official cements the impression that PAF might be in talks with Russia to make a deal of Su-35s quietly.

Apart from being old, PAF fighter fleet has another challenge which stems from its eastern border where India is modernizing its air force at rapid pace and has plans to induct 5th generation fighter by 2020. It is obvious that PAF will not go for 1:1 comparison with IAF but in order to maintain an effective deterrence, PAF will be forced to look at state of the art quality fighters like F-16 C/D Block 52s or Su-35 in large numbers. PAF will never be able to afford French fighters like Rafale in large numbers due to their price.

This leaves PAF with China as only viable option with Russia being the second most trusted potential supplier. Right now, PAF is looking for precision strike capability to boost its counter-insurgency ops in difficult to traverse remote FATA regions which terrorists have been using as bastions since many years. This capability is also critical to ensure minimizing the collateral damage.
Pakistan and China has developed JF-17 Thunder lightweight multi-role fighter jet to replace the aging F-7 and Mirage squadron but keeping in mind the sheer number of aircraft that need replacement, Thunder alone will never be able to replace them all. PAF is working on the 3rd block of Thunder which will have AESA radar, In Flight Refueling prob, enhanced EW suite and newer weapons and these added capabilities are bound to increase the cost of the per unit price of JF-17s.

With this backdrop, it is obvious that PAF will be looking for other options.
It is also plausible that PAF in near future try to purchase older F-16s which European countries are about to retire just like PAF got 13 F-16s from Jordan in 2013. PAF has maintained its large Mirage fleet over the years following the same strategy. So, replacing old mirages with old F-16s is very much possible. But considering US political clout on European countries it is also equally possible that PAF might not opt for this strategy to the extent its used it for acquiring older Mirage III/V during the 1990's.

A more realistic option for PAF is to concentrate on the production of Thunders. To expedite the production to fill the replacement needs PAF can ask CAC to share the load of production. Even 50 odd Thunders completely assembled in China can make PAF's replacement task much easier. Biggest advantage of JF-17 is that it is absolutely sanction free aircraft. And this is the strategy PAF must be looking at with securing purchase of small number of high-tech fighters from the US and Russia (say 18 F-16 C/D Block 52 + 24 Su-35s with an option of 24 more later on). This will also give PAF a good Hi-Low mix of its multi-role fighter fleet without straining its financials too much.
 

Bonza

Super Moderator
Staff member
Just a general reminder that one liner posts are to be avoided with some exceptions made such as thanking a member for information or similar, and that re-posting an article without any personal input (or a one liner) at all is not considered good form. Hope this gets across the expectations for everyone in the thread,
 
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