New Zealand Army

Redlands18

Well-Known Member
Thales can mount a 30mm on the new Bushmaster MR6. If you're after that sort of thing.
Technically yes you could but to what end? The Bushie is a capable 2nd line vehicle for work behind the lines, offering decent protection and can mount a heavy MG for Defence but as a replacement for a LAV on the frontline that could go toe to toe with a ARV or IFV?
 

KiwiRob

Active Member
Twenty years old but virtually new. Selling them is short sighted. They should be given an MLU and turned into specialist support vehicles. Ambulances, mortar carriers and infantry section carriers all without the 25 mm turret. I have posited this before and was scolded for suggesting no CONOPS for mobile mortar. A look at the French purchase of 120mm mortar carriers shows other countries value the capability.

In a low intensity SP operation these would be useful and more than a match to the existing armament of irregulars. Recycle and create a valuable resource. But if its a process to simply cut costs then it doesnt matter about capability. I am sure these are far more capable than the AVGPs sold by Canada to Uruguay and Chile.
The oldest LAV's in the fleet were delivered in August 2003, the newest in November 2004. The first M113's arrived in NZ in 1969, we operated them for nearly 40 years.

Also something I find odd is why no publication says how many Supacats we purchased, I can't see why this should be a secret, you can easily see what vehicle types and how many are operated by the UK SAS, why not ours?
 
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Cadredave

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
www.stuff.co.nz/national/122067489/new-armoured-vehicle-purchase-replaces-ageing-fleet

Minister of Defence Ron Mark announces the purchase of 43 new armoured vehicles to replace armoured Pinzgauer.
Early 2000 we were doing TEWTs using the following vehicles, QAMR equipped with the M8 AGS, RF Bn motorised with Bushmasters complete with all types no change for all other Corps brings a smile to my face to see them finally in service. I do believe this is only the first buy once Army decides the new org and roles of its future war fighting force structure.
CD
 
I do believe this is only the first buy once Army decides the new org and roles of its future war fighting force structure.
CD
Hope you are right.
Does anyone know the details of this being the bushmaster NZ 5.5. where does it fit between standard Bushmaster and the later MR6 version?
ADF has just purchased more EOS RWS for its bushmasters and Hawkeis. Would be good if we go some too. Can now be fitted with mounted javelin. There is also an EW version in the works, which will become more and more relevant on contemporary battlefileds.

Would also like to see Engineers have access to a mine clearance/EOD one.
 

Gibbo

Active Member
www.stuff.co.nz/national/122067489/new-armoured-vehicle-purchase-replaces-ageing-fleet

Minister of Defence Ron Mark announces the purchase of 43 new armoured vehicles to replace armoured Pinzgauer.

Excellent news... but am curious that "...Delivery of the fleet is expected to begin in late 2022. The full fleet is expected to be in action from late 2023". Does that lead time suggest they're new build or re-furbed Aussie ones (had always assumed the latter)... if they're 2nd hand why would it take up to 3 years to be all in service?
 

MrConservative

Super Moderator
Staff member
www.stuff.co.nz/national/122067489/new-armoured-vehicle-purchase-replaces-ageing-fleet

Minister of Defence Ron Mark announces the purchase of 43 new armoured vehicles to replace armoured Pinzgauer.
Well done Ron Mark, a rarity in being a politician who has actually delivered. He has achieved more in Defence in the last 2 years and 9 months than any of his predecessors for decades. It is great to see a minister with a real passion for his job and really care about the defence community he is working for. In my view he is not getting the public credit he deserves, but I think all who post here would say he has delivered. I do note that he in the budget estimate rounds buried in Treasury documents he had $5.4B he wanted in requests to Officials, but they peeled it back to $3.9B (One wonders what he wanted). Though I am not fond of some of his more dodgy party mates, I would like to see him back for another stint as Defence Minister, and this time with more fiscal resourcing.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Well done Ron Mark, a rarity in being a politician who has actually delivered. He has achieved more in Defence in the last 2 years and 9 months than any of his predecessors for decades. It is great to see a minister with a real passion for his job and really care about the defence community he is working for. In my view he is not getting the public credit he deserves, but I think all who post here would say he has delivered. I do note that he in the budget estimate rounds buried in Treasury documents he had $5.4B he wanted in requests to Officials, but they peeled it back to $3.9B (One wonders what he wanted). Though I am not fond of some of his more dodgy party mates, I would like to see him back for another stint as Defence Minister, and this time with more fiscal resourcing.
Yep I would agree that he has done an excellent job as Defence Minister. What really impressed me was after the review that he ordered into defence procurement, he changed his stance on defence procurement by 180° and said so, giving his reasons why. He was a very harsh critic of defence procurement prior to becoming Defence Minister. I too would like to see him continue as Defence Minister along with greater fiscal resources. It's a real pity that he has such dodgy political party bedfellows.
 

Shanesworld

Active Member
Early 2000 we were doing TEWTs using the following vehicles, QAMR equipped with the M8 AGS, RF Bn motorised with Bushmasters complete with all types no change for all other Corps brings a smile to my face to see them finally in service. I do believe this is only the first buy once Army decides the new org and roles of its future war fighting force structure.
CD
The m8 buford? Do you know what lead to that inclusion?
 

Xthenaki

Member
Well done Ron Mark, a rarity in being a politician who has actually delivered. He has achieved more in Defence in the last 2 years and 9 months than any of his predecessors for decades. It is great to see a minister with a real passion for his job and really care about the defence community he is working for. In my view he is not getting the public credit he deserves, but I think all who post here would say he has delivered. I do note that he in the budget estimate rounds buried in Treasury documents he had $5.4B he wanted in requests to Officials, but they peeled it back to $3.9B (One wonders what he wanted). Though I am not fond of some of his more dodgy party mates, I would like to see him back for another stint as Defence Minister, and this time with more fiscal resourcing.
I could not agree with you more. The outcome for Defence after the upcoming elections is somewhat worrying especially if this govt gets another term and Ron Mark misses out because of NZ First.
 

Xthenaki

Member
Well done Ron Mark, a rarity in being a politician who has actually delivered. He has achieved more in Defence in the last 2 years and 9 months than any of his predecessors for decades. It is great to see a minister with a real passion for his job and really care about the defence community he is working for. In my view he is not getting the public credit he deserves, but I think all who post here would say he has delivered. I do note that he in the budget estimate rounds buried in Treasury documents he had $5.4B he wanted in requests to Officials, but they peeled it back to $3.9B (One wonders what he wanted). Though I am not fond of some of his more dodgy party mates, I would like to see him back for another stint as Defence Minister, and this time with more fiscal resourcing.
I could not agree with you more. The outcome for Defence after the upcoming elections is somewhat worrying especially if this govt gets another term and Ron Mark misses out because of NZ First.
 

Nighthawk.NZ

Active Member
All these purchases are part of the 20 billion over 15 years... which the coalition agreed to... (which surprised me that they did) I hope that whoever gets in next year continues that ... I tries to stick to a plan... ie DCP2019. So far it has lasted 2 governments.

I wonder what the next announcement is that they speak off at the end of this report...??
 

MrConservative

Super Moderator
Staff member
All these purchases are part of the 20 billion over 15 years... which the coalition agreed to... (which surprised me that they did) I hope that whoever gets in next year continues that ... I tries to stick to a plan... ie DCP2019. So far it has lasted 2 governments.

I wonder what the next announcement is that they speak off at the end of this report...??
The Garrison and Training Vehicles Project or Network Enabled Army are next in the pipeline. A bit more info in here:

 

Shanesworld

Active Member
Garrison vehicles is moving forwards by parts it seems. The fire pod mounts have been agreed to by type but the details as to how they will be modified is being ironed out. I guessing the success of that may determine the vendor for later orders. But the fire pod trucks are the most urgent.
 

Cadredave

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
The m8 buford? Do you know what lead to that inclusion?
It was part of the proposed Motorisation of the RF Inf Bn during the late 90's with the Bushy replacing the M113 crewed by Infantry & M8 replacing the FV 101 Scorpion it basically fell apart with the internal war between those who supported track vs wheels and the cancellation by US Army. Pity we would of had Bushy as part of the PRT & Timor instead of Humvees would of made our job conducting PDT alot easier instead of armoured LOV filling in for humvees then doing a further conversion in theater and Timor with the reports coming back from theater regarding the deficiencies of the armd LOV. Im just glad that Army will have vehicles that will provide proper IED/Mine protection. I would like to see the second tranch hopefully being the bushy support vehicle ambulance, Logistical, etc.

Good day to be in the DFSW platoons...
 

aussienscale

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Excellent news... but am curious that "...Delivery of the fleet is expected to begin in late 2022. The full fleet is expected to be in action from late 2023". Does that lead time suggest they're new build or re-furbed Aussie ones (had always assumed the latter)... if they're 2nd hand why would it take up to 3 years to be all in service?
Found these couple of references today, although nothing official that I have been able to find from NZDF or Thales, both articles quote the pictures as "Supplied" and/or credit to Thales/NZ Army.

Both articles show the same picture and the Bendigo Advertiser quotes "43 new Bushmasters" & "The company's Bendigo factory will build"

Not reading too much into it, but the pictures "supplied" show the newer MR6, one of the key visual differences being a driver and passenger doors, time will tell.

Congrats NZ, they will serve you well no doubt

Cheers


 

MARKMILES77

Active Member
Not reading too much into it, but the pictures "supplied" show the newer MR6, one of the key visual differences being a driver and passenger doors, time will tell.


In The NZ News Video above, the journalist states the vehicles will weigh 17 tonne.
The MR6 has the upgraded suspension which increases the GVM from around 15 tonne, in the original Bushmaster, to 17 tonne in the MR6.
This would imply it is the MR6 or at least it is using the MR6 heavy duty suspension.
I believe the original Bushmaster hull can have the 8.6 tonne (heavy duty) axles fitted though.
Possibly the Australian Army will fit the new suspension to their existing Bushmasters as part of the Bushmaster upgrade and the NZ vehicles could be a similar hybrid of the old style hull with the new suspension.
 

aussienscale

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
In The NZ News Video above, the journalist states the vehicles will weigh 17 tonne.
The MR6 has the upgraded suspension which increases the GVM from around 15 tonne, in the original Bushmaster, to 17 tonne in the MR6.
This would imply it is the MR6 or at least it is using the MR6 heavy duty suspension.
I believe the original Bushmaster hull can have the 8.6 tonne (heavy duty) axles fitted though.
Possibly the Australian Army will fit the new suspension to their existing Bushmasters as part of the Bushmaster upgrade and the NZ vehicles could be a similar hybrid of the old style hull with the new suspension.
Could be possible, I was just speculating from the picture, only the MR6 has the driver and passenger doors, the original hull design does not.

But as we know the pictures or models do not always tell the real story or accurately depict what a customer ends up with, but to me maybe a little strange if they did go with the old hull design when they have gone to the effort and have been marketing the MR6 as the latest design, just my thoughts.

A good move by NZ regardless, will be interesting to see what is announced next, was there any indication of NZ obtaining a PMV-L like Hawkei etc ?

Cheers
 
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