New Zealand Army

[Rocco_NZ]

Anyone have any news on the Army Organisation Report?

From memory there was review of how the Army is structured, looking at options such as the new Australian Army structure etc..

Be interested in any news.

I thought the review was due to be submitted to Cabinet early this year.

The minister has said that 1 RNZIR is now operating as a cavalry unit and is developing doctrine based on what's in use in Australia.

Variants on size and quantity of various Army units have been put to Cabinet a number of times. A discussion on some of the options was incorporated in to the F-16 lease review. I've pasted it below.

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The RNZAF's air combat capability was again considered as part of the DA97 exercise. At that time, six options were developed by identifying essential and variable NZDF force structure elements. The variables were:

* the size of the naval combat force, with variations based on two, three and four frigates;

* the continuation or elimination of the air combat capability;

* the number and size of the regular force infantry battalions; and

* some variation in the size of the airlift and utility helicopter fleet.

These may be better considered as follows:

Option A
Naval Combat Force 4 frigates
Air Combat Force Retained
Infantry Battalions 2 with 4 rifle coys


Option C1
Naval Combat Force 3 frigates
Air Combat Force Eliminated
Infantry Battalions 2 with 3 rifle coys

Option C2
Naval Combat Force 2 frigates
Air Combat Force Retained
Infantry Battalions 2 with 3 rifle coys

Option C3
Naval Combat Force 2 frigates
Air Combat Force Eliminated
Infantry Battalions 3 with 3 rifle coys - deployable brigade


Option C4
Naval Combat Force 3 frigates
Air Combat Force Retained
Infantry Battalions 2 with 3 rifle coys


Option D
Naval Combat Force 2 frigates
Air Combat Force Eliminated
Infantry Battalions 2 with 3 rifle coys


In the event, Cabinet chose a mix, effectively C4 plus four rifle companies in each of two battalions. This result was hardly surprising as options C1, C2, C3 and D did not support present policy "within which we have been required to carry out this Assessment" (DA97).

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I don't think the current review will have too many surprises. It will probably endorse the idea of having two motorised infantry groups operating in a cavalry role (1 RNZIR and QAMR) and a light group (2/1 RNZIR). The interesting part will be what it says about logistics, artillery and engineers.

 

[Whiskyjack]

That is interesting, according to the answer to Parliamentary Questions 1RNZIR and QAMR are operating using Australian Cavalry Doctrine. Does that mean that they are organised along the same lines?

An Australian Cav Squadron has 20 LAVs and 24 dismounts (8 per troop).

That would be a way of keeping manpower requirements down (very few dismounts), but allowing for maximum LAV crewing. It would also explain why all deployments over the last year (as far as can see) have been drawn from the 2/1RNZIR.

Does anyone know anything further on how the 1RNZIR and QAMR are organised?

 

[Tasman]

That is interesting, according to the answer to Parliamentary Questions 1RNZIR and QAMR are operating using Australian Cavalry Doctrine. Does that mean that they are organised along the same lines?

An Australian Cav Squadron has 20 LAVs and 24 dismounts (8 per troop).

That would be a way of keeping manpower requirements down (very few dismounts), but allowing for maximum LAV crewing. It would also explain why all deployments over the last year (as far as can see) have been drawn from the 2/1RNZIR.

Does anyone know anything further on how the 1RNZIR and QAMR are organised?

Whiskyjack, can you explain what a 'dismount' is please.

Thanks

 

[Rocco_NZ]

That is interesting, according to the answer to Parliamentary Questions 1RNZIR and QAMR are operating using Australian Cavalry Doctrine. Does that mean that they are organised along the same lines?

An Australian Cav Squadron has 20 LAVs and 24 dismounts (8 per troop).

That would be a way of keeping manpower requirements down (very few dismounts), but allowing for maximum LAV crewing. It would also explain why all deployments over the last year (as far as can see) have been drawn from the 2/1RNZIR.

Does anyone know anything further on how the 1RNZIR and QAMR are organised?

The Australian squadrons are probably contrained by the ASLAV-25/ASLAV-PC combo to a certain extent. I expect we will hear more about this when the ACR is released.

2/1 has provided the bulk of troops for deployments recently. I'm not sure if this is because of doctrine, role or necessity. 2/1 is tasked with light infantry duties, 1 RNZIR has been learning new doctrine restrucuring. It might also just be a matter of being "Johnny on the spot."

 

[Aussie Digger]

Whiskyjack, can you explain what a 'dismount' is please.

Thanks

A "dismounted" soldier. Basically each Aus Cav/recon regiment operates a "recon scout" section per Cavalry troop.

It used to comprise a Corporal and 5 other diggers, though it may have been increased to 8 in total.

 

[NZLAV]

New Zealand Special Air Service (NZSAS)

Just finshed watching the 4 part series on the NZ military elite unit! amazing!!! I feel alot safer with them now. What a professional unit they are. Did anyine else see it?

 

[stryker NZ]

I did to and i have to say although i knew it was tough in the SAS i had no idea as to how tough. These guys are bloody machines and my respect for them has gone through the roof.

now i just wish people would make more doco series like this on the NZ defence force. It really opens your eyes and gives you an insight into what they do and what military life is about.

 

[NZLAV]

Well they have done the airforce and the Navy, so next...should be army

 

[ThePuss]

Whats the name of the program. sounds very interesting

 

[stryker NZ]

Whats the name of the program. sounds very interesting

it was an inside New Zealand 4 part doco i think you can download it off the NZ Army site

Well they have done the airforce and the Navy, so next...should be army

yeah but the navy one only covered junior officers during basic training, it would be cool if there was a more in depth series on the navy as a whole like the airforce one

 

[ThePuss]

it was an inside New Zealand 4 part doco i think you can download it off the NZ Army site

Thanks. It was just the trailers but still interesting. Hopefully it will turn up on You Tube soon...... Hint, hint, nudge, nudge

 

[mug]

What/when was the airforce doco you're referring to.

 

[stryker NZ]

it was flimed a couple of years ago and was usually shown after coastwatch on TV1 they have it on reruns sometimes on saturday to

 

[steve33]

I saw the documentry and it blew me away how tough the training was,talk about getting rid of the dreamers.

 

[RubiconNZ]

I look forward to its release on DVD, It it just goes to how professional the NZSAS and the related SASR really are more programs like this will definitely lift the profile of the NZDF and hopefully inspire more support amongst the general population and the government in charge.

 

[steve33]

The level of support is pretty scary at the moment there are more people leaving than joining.

I saw a poll on a news website and they asked if the public supported the latest reconstruction team sent to Afganistan and only 45 % said yes which is pretty sad, not one person killed or wounded not a shot fired and they can,t even support that.

 

[RubiconNZ]

I see two things mainly wrong with lack of support,
A) Anti American association
B) lack of knowledge/education of actual task

 

[riksavage]

The NZ remains a highly professional, if very small force. Retention and recruitment though is a real problem compounded by the fact that both the UK and Australia openly welcome NZ citizens.

My son’s a full-on Kiwi, but selected to join the UK RM instead of the NZ army, simply because of opportunities, kit and the chance to travel outside just Iraq / Afghanistan etc.

 

[steve33]

The army back tracked on there recruitment information saying it wasnt correct there are actually more people joining but i can,t blame you son for going else where the reality is that if you are a soldier who does want to see action unless you are good enough for the SAS you won,t see it in the New Zealand Army,taking part in offensive military operations doesn,t sit with Labour party policy.

Helen Clake stated that the thought of armed conflict makes her sick so feel good peace keeping operations are the most you will find yourself doing.

 

[KiwiRob]

The NZ remains a highly professional, if very small force. Retention and recruitment though is a real problem compounded by the fact that both the UK and Australia openly welcome NZ citizens.

My son’s a full-on Kiwi, but selected to join the UK RM instead of the NZ army, simply because of opportunities, kit and the chance to travel outside just Iraq / Afghanistan etc.

That was his mistake, I have a friend who's father was in the SAS, they go all over the world, anywhere the UK SAS are there will be NZ SAS members on secondment, if you remember Princess Gate Iranian Embassy seige a couple of NZ SAS soldiers were part of the assult team.

My uncle tried out for NZ SAS and nearly died of hyperthermia on the central platou, it was the final training run, he was binned.

from all that I have ever heard and read our guys are some of the best if not the best special forces in the world.