NZSAS used the hummers on their first trip then the SOVs on their second once the issues with pinz trans were sorted. Ngati are you mixing up hiace vans with hilux utes? I've seen hilux and landcruisers but not hiace vans? Also the fact they are not really the best x country wagons nevermind armoured so even worse idea.
New Zealand Army
- Thread starter Whiskyjack
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- army artilery gunner new zealand sas
Ngati I dont know where you got Hiace vans from? we have never used hiace vans in Afghanistan ever!!! Hilux 4x4 yes vans no this sounds more like those urban myths.
CD
There are photos of them hanging in the RSA in Gore and am sure that I saw imagery in the media not long after the PRT first went in. However I may be mistaken on the model. Possibly old age and senility on my part.
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There are photos of them hanging in the RSA in Gore and am sure that I saw imagery in the media not long after the PRT first went in. However I may be mistaken on the model. Possibly old age and senility on my part.
Haha could have been a Patrol helping locals or something? Media would have had a feild day with them, the 'civi' hiluxes got enough stick as it was.
There are photos of them hanging in the RSA in Gore and am sure that I saw imagery in the media not long after the PRT first went in. However I may be mistaken on the model. Possibly old age and senility on my part.
Ahh yes it would go something like this "ok boys jump in that wagon for a photo this will be great for morale back home"
we had the same when some reporters came over:
press: guys jump inside that old tank
us: No way
press: why not, it wont hurt, Ill show you,
He jumps in then the guys hear him swear,
us: burst out laughing hes not impressed jumps off crying about how dirty the locals are we tell him to stand down wind why he tries to clean his $400 brand new kathmandu hiking boots covered in human excrement, patrol commander looks at him and says that's why by the way your not getting in my Humvee with shit covered boots.
CD
Im just under average height 1.78m weight 90kgs thanks to the gym & thankfully haven't suffered any major injuries in the Infantry my last med board the BMI had me as obese I looked at the doctor and said really he then did the BFP after which I was cleared with flying colours got no time for the BMI at all in my books BFP is a much truer indication for an individual.
CD
The BMI was devised in the early to mid 1800,s.
1830-50.......diets may have changed a litle since then.
Add the loss of a lot of fit young men to wars and plagues......
1830-50.......diets may have changed a litle since then.
Add the loss of a lot of fit young men to wars and plagues......
kiwi in exile
Well-Known Member
New RWS in army news?
Is that a remote weapons station in the latest army news, page 22?
army.mil.nz/downloads/pdf/army-news/armynews463.pdf
Looks different from the one in the battle lab you tube, definitely not one of the swing arm mounts you usually see on NZDF vehicles.
Is that a remote weapons station in the latest army news, page 22?
army.mil.nz/downloads/pdf/army-news/armynews463.pdf
Looks different from the one in the battle lab you tube, definitely not one of the swing arm mounts you usually see on NZDF vehicles.
MHOV mounted as well by the looks, will be a good peice of kit for future operations. Finally NZDF getting some appropriate gear just too bad we are in a down period in terms of ops to fully put to the test under realistic conditions.
kiwi in exile
Well-Known Member
To me, from this pic looks like its a Protector Lite RWS, so limited to 7.62 weapons.
http://www.kongsberg.com/~/media/KPS/Datasheets/Dataark_Lite_sept 2010_A4_.ashx?la=en
Ideally, if we were to acquire RWS I would want some that were compatible with .50 cal and 40mm weapons. The fact that Protector lite is "80% compatible" with Protector M151 (stryker, ASLAV, Australias new SF supoacats) and Crows II is a plus. Not to mention that Protectors have been tested with javelins.
A handful of these would also be an asset:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdHi_8Sujn0
blackhawknz
New Member
Finally Army get a descent truck they wont know them self bout time those Mogs Went. MHOV purchase was a good MOTSP purchase and very quick to.
With the LAVs think it would be good to follow the Canada path with upgrades as Australia looks to replace there LAVS from 2020, With Canada looking to upgrade 508 there if we where to put our 105 LAV on back of there order would be a cost benefit as well .with Canada planing Upgrade of mobility systems such as powertrain, suspension, running gear and brakes,Upgrade of the weapon system,Installation of additional armour , maybe we just get the Powertrain , suspension , Weapons system upgrade ,Rws , and forgo the extra Armour for cost , maybe upgrades just 30-40 to full specs extra Armour and all rest with Power Train , Weapons upgrade.
With the LAVs think it would be good to follow the Canada path with upgrades as Australia looks to replace there LAVS from 2020, With Canada looking to upgrade 508 there if we where to put our 105 LAV on back of there order would be a cost benefit as well .with Canada planing Upgrade of mobility systems such as powertrain, suspension, running gear and brakes,Upgrade of the weapon system,Installation of additional armour , maybe we just get the Powertrain , suspension , Weapons system upgrade ,Rws , and forgo the extra Armour for cost , maybe upgrades just 30-40 to full specs extra Armour and all rest with Power Train , Weapons upgrade.
kiwi in exile
Well-Known Member
rifle replacement. new cartrige.
Dutch special forces to buy carbines chambered in 300 BLK - IHS Jane's 360
Firstly I'm not suggesting that we go it alone and adopt a new 'niche' cartridge NZDF wide. But after doing some internet research this seems pretty interesting and would have some utility for NZDF (SF especially) and may impact on our rifle replacement. I'll let thread readers do their own research about the cartridge: 7.62x35 mm aka 300 BLK or 300 Blackout. Has similar performance as 7.62 x 39, but was developed to be compatible with AR platforms with minimal conversion (pretty much a barrel swap from what I have seen). Compatible with 5.56 magazines. Ideal for CQB. Designed for use with suppressor. Stopping power, etc.
My thoughts are that this would be a useful for some NZDF users and would be an easy capability to add our toolkits. If we get a select a modular Steyr replacemet that has capability to adopt a 7.62 barrel (can HK 416 accept a HK417 barrel? FN SCAR?) it would be an easy upgrade. At least one military is looking at it, and my guess is that other spec ops will also, if not allready. Would be a shame if we missed an opportunity here.
There are plenty of American gun vids on youtube about this cartridge.
Cheers.
Dutch special forces to buy carbines chambered in 300 BLK - IHS Jane's 360
Firstly I'm not suggesting that we go it alone and adopt a new 'niche' cartridge NZDF wide. But after doing some internet research this seems pretty interesting and would have some utility for NZDF (SF especially) and may impact on our rifle replacement. I'll let thread readers do their own research about the cartridge: 7.62x35 mm aka 300 BLK or 300 Blackout. Has similar performance as 7.62 x 39, but was developed to be compatible with AR platforms with minimal conversion (pretty much a barrel swap from what I have seen). Compatible with 5.56 magazines. Ideal for CQB. Designed for use with suppressor. Stopping power, etc.
My thoughts are that this would be a useful for some NZDF users and would be an easy capability to add our toolkits. If we get a select a modular Steyr replacemet that has capability to adopt a 7.62 barrel (can HK 416 accept a HK417 barrel? FN SCAR?) it would be an easy upgrade. At least one military is looking at it, and my guess is that other spec ops will also, if not allready. Would be a shame if we missed an opportunity here.
There are plenty of American gun vids on youtube about this cartridge.
Cheers.
I saw that, but IMHO to soon for us to look at. However if it gains traction amongst the NATO militaries then would be worth looking at in a NZ context.
On the issue of rifles, I did get to have a go with the Steyr back in the nineties and I only had two issues with it. The major one was the calibre which in my opinion is to light; my preference being 7.62mm, and the second the unique magazines, meaning that other makes cannot be used. Apart from that I liked the weapon. The bullpup configuration is IMHO really effective in that it reduces the overall length and footprint of the weapon which is important, for example, in confined spaces and hence reduces the requirement to acquire a second weapon for use in confined spaces. Therefore I would like to see NZDF retain the bullpup rifle but with a larger calibre. Unfortunately there doesn't appear to a lot of choice out there.
kiwi in exile
Well-Known Member
Plenty has allready been said about 5.56 vs 7.62 Nato so I won't add to that except to say one the whole the debate seems to be settled in that us and our allies are sticking with 5.56 as standard rifle round for the time being. New 5.56 ammo has helped.
Most of the suggested contenders for the steyr replacement are conventional layout, and I doubt that we will end up with a bullpup rifle. Conventional layout contenders seem more modular and configurable to individual shooters needs. The 300 BLK round is potentially another example of this, its as simple as swapping out a barrel. While I would like NZDF to investigate this, I agree that adoption will depend on wider adoption by our friends. However, it looks like a good option for special forces- esentially 7.62 power through a 5.56 system. My guess is that we will probably be seeing more of this in future.
shanes_world_05
Member
Rumour is that M4 layout is the only format being tested now. Some pers that were involved were very impressed with the options that made the chop but the barrel length, ergonomic and accessories options were the things still being decided. When I asked each of them if they would take an M4-like over a steyr they hesitated. With the amount of urban training the bullpup was a hard thing to loose but the modularity of the M4 layout was a pretty tasty thing also. whatever we get we'll make work.
Just hope we get to update the artillery and generally increase our overall combat power of the defence force as a whole.
7.62 by the bye is a great round and I love having it with the MAG's and LSW 7.62 but with urban being what it is there is a problem with over penetration and when you are up close 5.56 is useful with quick follow up shots. Also with state on state looming being able to train a larger number of soldiers quicker has a desirable aspect too.
The ole rumour has it trick heard that tale once too often ie back when the M16 was pitted against the Steyr rumour had it we were going to get the M16A2 lol, dont get where you're coming from reference 7.62mm?, are you talking about the 300 blk round the Dutch SF are purchasing?, mate you need 7.62mm in urban because when that VBIED is barreling towards your check point it is that weapon system that is going to take out the engine block (hopefully) if you dont have an M3 CG on hand.
CD
kiwi in exile
Well-Known Member
Guess he means going room to room and shooting through a wall and into a friendly.
If we get a conventional layout weapons we'll make it work fine in CQB- it's what most millitaries seem to use. Short barrel options. That's how the HK416 came about.
shanes_world_05
Member
Yeah sorry I meant 7.62 x 51 for room clearing. You would have more experience with it than me but 7.62 throws splinters and nastiness all over the place. Definitely need MAG's, LSW and DM for everything but room to room, something handy is nice. I do like the guns being up close to the break in, incase you stumble into a corridor or funneled area but the steyr is good for those tight door spaces like in toilet cubicles etc where your barrel can be grabbed or being thrown through upper windows (I'm small so I was the runt used for that alot). Don't know enough about M4 myself but I'll go with it.
I have only seen the Charlie being used at a distance and holy hell. Using that for road blocks....awesome.
And a friend of mine bought a Vanguard in 300 Black out and so far he isn't overally taken with it. Be different in a Honey Badger I guess but it seems to lack the oomph of 7.62 x 39 with the supersonic and the Sub's seem anemic beyond 50m. Drop at a 100 was something ridiculous.
To be honest if I had my way we would use Finnish RK95 (7.62 x39) with the South African/Israeli thumb safety.
shanes_world_05
Member
True. Just as long as we aren't shown up by the modern day equivalent of the Mauser because we went with the equivalent of 30-40 Krag. However if we can funnel any savings towards another Frigate or new Artillery etc, then price wins for me.
Ok got it, unfortunately that's the cost of doing FIBUA you use the weapons systems at your disposal you try to use the riflemen first however sometimes the gunner is the first cab off the rank. Most buildings I have seen in the middle east are concrete walled not like our flimsy walls we have here in NZ.
The Steyr is the same length as the M4 not many realise that little fact, one of the Crib deployments sent a UOR back to NZ for M4's and used the excuse that they required it because the Steyr was hard to use in the confined space of the vehicle's. It came to JFNZ where it was shot down due to the simple fact the M4 & Steyr were the same length, anyway no matter what NZDF choose for a replacement IW there will be a transition period of grief as we get to grips with the system hopefully the pain experienced with the Steyr introduction wont be as bad.
CD