New Coronavirus threat

Boagrius

Well-Known Member
There is not enough gold in Fort Knox to help many of these business. The country cannot afford to make payments for ever. We are running out of tax payers.
This is exactly why it is vital to nip this thing in the bud (as we have done successfully before) ASAP, rather than muck around with it. I can't imagine a Delta strain that is running roughshod over the city/state/country will be good for business either...
 

StingrayOZ

Super Moderator
Staff member
Wait, WTF, a mask out of old sock? Does Australia just don't have enough masks or is your boss nuts?
We are to email visitors the video on how to make a face mask, thus aren't required to give them on.

My organisation employs over 10,000. We have worked from home for the past month. Its just managers need to feel important by having people on site. Even more stupid, one of the managers does his job remotely, from Queensland. Even more stupid, its almost completely dependent on Federal funding.

Australia has plenty of PPE. Plenty of local manufacturers, making more than 20m a month. Plus imports.

Some employers are just being painful. They don't want people at home, they don't want to set a precedent by suppling PPE. However you can buy company branded PPE for $15 for a face mask.

And with big organisations not giving a fuck, why would smaller more struggling employers feel like they have to compromise? So you can see how things are going to unravel very quickly. They have had 18 months to get ready for this. And failed.

I get many small and private business find the current environment hard. What annoys me is big profitable entities, just being complete dicks.
 

Bob53

Well-Known Member
This is exactly why it is vital to nip this thing in the bud (as we have done successfully before) ASAP, rather than muck around with it. I can't imagine a Delta strain that is running roughshod over the city/state/country will be good for business either...
I’m not in disagreement about the stupidity of marching during Covid but I disagree with anyone suggesting that the other causes get treated the same. It’s not a recent phenomenon. Not so long ago we had the disrupt Wall Street crowd closing down Melbourne traffic several times a week for several weeks while the police stood on the side and watched. We have the woke gov employees running the place so no surprise I guess.
 

Bob53

Well-Known Member
False equivalency - when the BLM protests happened they were approved, all protestors wore masks and the daily case rate was around 2 a day with the original Covid, not to mention protestors were met with a larger and harder NSW police presence. Now on the day of the protest last weekend the day's case count was 163, very few of those morons were wearing a mask and they got off relatively lightly by the NSW Police.
No that’s nonsense. The Victorian matches were in defiance of orders not to match. It was not approved at all. Of
False equivalency - when the BLM protests happened they were approved, all protestors wore masks and the daily case rate was around 2 a day with the original Covid, not to mention protestors were met with a larger and harder NSW police presence. Now on the day of the protest last weekend the day's case count was 163, very few of those morons were wearing a mask and they got off relatively lightly by the NSW Police.
Not a factual response - The BLM March in Melbourne (which I should of made clear) was not approved and in breach of Covid restrictions at the time. And while most wore masks there was a significant percentage that did not wear a mask. But are you saying if you wear a mask you can do what ever you want? Of the 10k plus marchers at the BLM, 3 were fined for breaching public safety orders and I understand those fines were withdrawn.
There is a double standard to policing in vic.

To be clear I think if you are marching during Covid your an idiot
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #885
There is not enough gold in Fort Knox to help many of these business. The country cannot afford to make payments for ever. We are running out of tax payers.

There wasCOVID lockdown orders in place during those marches last year also.
Payments forever, actually according to junior you can. That’s why our annual deficit is well over $300 billion. The consequences of this extra debt are not going to be pleasant.
 

DDG38

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
No that’s nonsense. The Victorian matches were in defiance of orders not to match. It was not approved at all. Of

Not a factual response - The BLM March in Melbourne (which I should of made clear) was not approved and in breach of Covid restrictions at the time. And while most wore masks there was a significant percentage that did not wear a mask. But are you saying if you wear a mask you can do what ever you want? Of the 10k plus marchers at the BLM, 3 were fined for breaching public safety orders and I understand those fines were withdrawn.
There is a double standard to policing in vic.

To be clear I think if you are marching during Covid your an idiot
My bad, I'm referring to the Sydney protests. So different city, different infection rates at the time. Different protest orders.
 

Boagrius

Well-Known Member
While I agree that marches should generally be off the table during lockdown, I have especially little sympathy for a group whose express purpose involves making the existing crisis worse for everyone.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
I’m not in disagreement about the stupidity of marching during Covid but I disagree with anyone suggesting that the other causes get treated the same. It’s not a recent phenomenon. Not so long ago we had the disrupt Wall Street crowd closing down Melbourne traffic several times a week for several weeks while the police stood on the side and watched. We have the woke gov employees running the place so no surprise I guess.
Be careful you have strayed into that area which makes Moderators very twitchy, politics that have nothing to do with defence. You have committed a mortal sin. Don't do it again.
 

Bob53

Well-Known Member
Not meaning to upset the apple cart here so heard understood and acknowledged … but this thread by its nature has crawled across a few boundaries and I’m not the first here to offend I would think.
 

tonnyc

Well-Known Member
Not meaning to upset the apple cart here so heard understood and acknowledged … but this thread by its nature has crawled across a few boundaries and I’m not the first here to offend I would think.
We'll, anyway everyone agrees that the current anti-lockdown protest in Australia is utter stupidity so there isn't even any disagreement there. So let's all move on.

Obligatory Topic-related stuff: get vaccinated, and encourage others to do so, everyone. There's good data in Indonesia that while the Delta-variant can infect fully vaccinated people, the case fatality among the fully vaccinated is much lower than unvaccinated ones.

This is a statement from Siti Nadia Tarmizi, the spokeperson for the Indonesian Ministry of Health.
Data perawatan pasien Covid-19 di Rumah Sakit periode Mei-Juli 2021 menunjukkan bahwa 90 persen dari orang yang sudah divaksin dosis pertama sembuh usai terpapar Covid-19, sementara 96 persen orang yang divaksin penuh berhasil sembuh dari corona.
...
Sementara pasien Covid-19 yang belum mendapatkan vaksin sama sekali hanya 84 persen yang sembuh.
"Hospitalized COVID-19 patient data from May to July 2021 shows that of the patients who already got the first dose of vaccination 90% recovered while of those who has been fully vaccinated, 96% recovered.
...
While only 84% of the patients who haven't been vaccinated at all recovered."

Note that this is hospitalized cases. Not merely infected with light symptoms. It's those serious enough that they have to go and stay at the hospital.
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
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  • #891
Reading about the Sydney situation is sort of like the Toronto situation sans lockdown protests. Most of Ontario faced varying degrees of lock downs for six months but Toronto and the GTA was pretty much total lockdown from late December to early June. Masks are still mandatory for inside locations even though we have close to 70% double jabbed. After 6 months of this BS, the plan is to minimize the chances of Delta creating a 4th wave. Should have over 80% double jabbed by September in Ontario and most of the other provinces should be there as well. Vaccination, IMHO, is the only way forward.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Not meaning to upset the apple cart here so heard understood and acknowledged … but this thread by its nature has crawled across a few boundaries and I’m not the first here to offend I would think.
It was your last sentence that was a bridge to far.
 

StingrayOZ

Super Moderator
Staff member
Sydney has like 15% people vaccinated. Due to the glacial pace of the roll out. Australia nationally has very few people fully vaccinated. Not due to vaccine hesitancy (Australia has world leading vaccination rates in many areas 95%+), but due to lack of vaccines.

The ADF has been called into Sydney. Despite the police commissioner saying they weren't needed yesterday morning.

Its significant. NSW Government was obviously resisting having to go to ADF for enforcement and man power. 300 extra is somewhat token, given the NSW 17,000 officers.
 

DDG38

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Sydney has like 15% people vaccinated. Due to the glacial pace of the roll out. Australia nationally has very few people fully vaccinated. Not due to vaccine hesitancy (Australia has world leading vaccination rates in many areas 95%+), but due to lack of vaccines.

The ADF has been called into Sydney. Despite the police commissioner saying they weren't needed yesterday morning.

Its significant. NSW Government was obviously resisting having to go to ADF for enforcement and man power. 300 extra is somewhat token, given the NSW 17,000 officers.
I live 7km away from Macquarie St. The NSW government will be held up in years to come as a classic example of management over leadership and what happens when hubris dictates your decision making. They are also the epitome of not learning from history, as they are almost copying all the mistakes that Melbourne made at the beginning of their 2nd wave. If they can't start bending the curve in the next couple of weeks I suspect they'll be asking for more ADF assistance.
 

ASSAIL

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Sydney has like 15% people vaccinated. Due to the glacial pace of the roll out. Australia nationally has very few people fully vaccinated. Not due to vaccine hesitancy (Australia has world leading vaccination rates in many areas 95%+), but due to lack of vaccines.

The ADF has been called into Sydney. Despite the police commissioner saying they weren't needed yesterday morning.

Its significant. NSW Government was obviously resisting having to go to ADF for enforcement and man power. 300 extra is somewhat token, given the NSW 17,000 officers.
The position is a bit more nuanced than as you state.
In summary,
The most vulnerable 70+ Yrs old - 78.2% 1st dose, 39.5% 2nd dose (mostly AZ 12 weeks between doses)
50+ Yrs old - 64% 1st, 24% 2nd (a high rate of AZ)
Lastly 16+yrs - 39.5% 1st, 17.7% 2nd (mostly Pfizer)
Updated daily
 

OPSSG

Super Moderator
Staff member
As a NSW high school teacher, this is not welcome news to me. Anyone got a spare hazmat suit?
I hear you. It is so frustrating when the leadership team in NSW Government fails to understand the maths on a pandemic and does not appreciate that Delta is essentially a mutated monster that destroys the best prepared plans. The science behind these recommendations is crystal clear based on data from Singapore and Israel.

Unvaccinated people are more likely to be seriously ill or die, when compared to the vaccination. Often the vaccine protects from hospitalization and death, except for people with underlying conditions. Data from the US shows that the infection fatality rate before vaccines was 1 in 200, it could be less than 1 in 500, or as low as 1 in 1,000, in the coming months because of vaccine protection—even if there are many breakthrough infections.

The plus is that vaccinated people are however infectious for a shorter period (9 days, instead of a longer period) and often their symptoms are mild. Very rarely do they get seriously sick like the unvaccinated.

Doctors have always known breakthrough infections are contagious in symptomatic. The problem is, there is too much virus spreading because there are too many unvaccinated in NSW spreading the Delta variant.

The masking by the infected and the healthy limit the chance of spread to 1.5%. If NSW does not get it right Delta will kill many there.

This is a doctor sharing on her breakthrough Corvid-19 infection. She is vaccinated but this is not good at all as Delta has the slight potential to kill even the vaccinated, especially if they have underlying medical conditions.

The only plus I can see from this is: 80% of the most vulnerable Americans, Australians and Singaporeans—people over 65—are fully vaccinated. Fewer vulnerable people means fewer deaths.
 
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Boagrius

Well-Known Member
I hear you. It is so frustrating when the leadership team in NSW Government fails to understand the maths on a pandemic and does not appreciate that Delta is essentially a mutated monster that destroys the best prepared plans. The science behind these recommendations is crystal clear based on data from Singapore and Israel.
I mean, I'm still a young guy with no dependents or older people in my immediate circle, so I am willing to put myself at greater risk for the good of the kids I teach and society more generally, but when you're still struggling to even get vaccinated it's a real issue. A significant proportion of NSW teachers would not be in my more favourable position.
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
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  • #898
I live 7km away from Macquarie St. The NSW government will be held up in years to come as a classic example of management over leadership and what happens when hubris dictates your decision making. They are also the epitome of not learning from history, as they are almost copying all the mistakes that Melbourne made at the beginning of their 2nd wave. If they can't start bending the curve in the next couple of weeks I suspect they'll be asking for more ADF assistance.
Deja vu from my perspective. Despite what medical experts recommended, pollies put economic interests up front and ended restrictions too early in Ontario and this happened in other provinces and Europe as well. Certainly citizen unease with lock downs also swayed pollies. The latter was a much bigger issue in the US. Bottom line, NSW had many examples around the world on how not to do things, so did some provinces in Canada.
 
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