Kosovo=Serbia
Banned Member
Admin Edit. Text deleted due to forum rules breach of excess emoticons/smilies.
Last edited by a moderator:
Kosovo Conflict
- Thread starter Sgt.Banes
- Start date
- Status
By "benefit" I meant to ask what Serbia would gain (and not only in economic terms, although those are usually used in these kind of arguments), beside a lot of trouble by keeping Kosovo within the country.
Your history lesson is good, but to me it's just picking the timeframe that's most convenient for your own arguments. I mean, we don't hear the Italians saying it belongs to them, because it used to be part of the Roman Empire. Or the Germans claiming the Benelux, since that used to belong to the German Empire. Or Sweden claiming Norway, or vice versa depending on the timeframe you use for your argument. (And there are countless other examples.)
And the Serbs must have come from somewhere else, when you say thay came to the Balkan in the 2nd halve of the 7th century. Why not identify where they came from and say it must belong to Serbia since the Serbs originated there?
Your last argument I also hear from the side of Kosovorans. "Now, after years of suffer, ethnic cleansing, and exiling, there left about 1500000 Kosovarans, who are again under pressure and in danger and living in constantly fear, don't mention catastrophic economic situation."
I have to say that neither side has an impressive track record when it comes to protecting other nationalities/minorities.
I guess it's just an emotional argument between Serbia and Kosovo of which you have to be an inhabitant to really grasp the arguments.
As far as I can see it, logic is (almost) nowhere to be found in the arguments between Serbia and Kosovo. (And logic can be something else than justice, which might be something entirely different than international law.)
And to end my view on the matter I want to say that, in contrast to what many like us to believe, one of the things about history is that it's not a static notion. Countries have always appeared and disappeared. Too bad we, as humans, aren't evolved enough to resolve our differences without (in general) massive amounts of bloodshed.
Kosovo=Serbia
Banned Member
I can say next
Your argument is from higher angle, more-less objectively, too bad that
ones who make decision are not so indifferent.
I can't give such an argument about this question, a have, like you said only emotional argument on Kosovo, because I am not alien, I am a man, with hart, feelings and all that stuff, like I said in some of my posts, I don't really hate Albanians as nation, although they are kind a weird, I hate their wrong ideas and individuals who sailing them...
But I will make some correction, which are from my angle needed.................
Serbs lived in big number, live , and hope will live in Kosovo, and I am not sure
how many Romans, move from Rome to live in Kosovo back there, or Germans, or Sweden, they maybe had conquer it with their armies, but think that there were/are not hundred of thousands Italian in Kosovo, or hundred of thousands Germans in Benelux, or hundred of thousands Sweden in Norway,
if you understand what I am saying.
Yes, after Huns invasion on Europe Serbs moved from south Baltic shore (today Poland and Germany) were they lived together with Russian, Polish and other Slavic nations and come to Balkan. There is still thousands of Serb living
in Germany and Poland, were more before WW2, so called Luzicki Serbs.
But Germany manage to merge them with Germans and make them good and comfortable there, so they don't blame much, and don't declare that part of Germany as their own state, and they have I think more rights for that, than Albanians for Kosovo. There is also small number of Serbs that live in Poland, so there is no right for as to ask for a state.... But generally we have some right for ask for some kind of liberty, and we don't do that because it is simply stupid.
Kosovorans stands for Albanians. They had suffer too, but not for "years".
In communist Yugoslavia they manage to get autonomy province of Serbia status for Kosovo, never before Kosovo was province, it was same as other parts of Serbia. But then Albanians took full control of it. With the constanly 70% of people in Communist party of Kosovo, and they restarted to humiliate
Serbs.....
Anyway only period when they suffer was during Milosevic regime, especially
98 and 99 when Serbian police forces killed about 3000 Albanians, both terrorist and civilians, that was all ethnic cleansing, even someone ( I mentioned BBC propaganda machine ) talking about hundreds of thousands,
and after 8 years of UN digging mass graves in Kosovo were founded about 2000 corpses including all Serbian, Albanian, Turks, Gypsies and etc...
Last statistic I have heard that there is estimate 3000 Albanian casualties....... they possible include, ones who were not found in the graves (missing) and I dunno...........
And finally, they have been exiled??? True, but they have all back, now there is more of them than before, than ever before.
Too bad
That's from your point of view, but from my point of view it has nothing to do with indifference, much with rationality versus emotionality.
But that's me. My reply to people who say "but that's tradition/our culture" has always been and will always be: traditions change, cultures change.
That's just part of history, but not a lot of people (want to) understand that. And politicians get a really honourable mention in this regard.
But I do admit there are people that find me too rational.
I of course find a lot of people way too emotional.
(And on a side note, the number of Germans in the Benelux is about 150000.)
Kosovo=Serbia
Banned Member
No, that is our history, people must know who they are and from were they are..............
Yes, but not much ! ! !
And of course you are rational when it has nothing to do with you.
I am saying every day that Palestinian and Jews must cool a little, that is most rational, but when it comes to your door, rationality quick vanquish
fore emotion............
Trust me.................
But again................ I dunno nothing about you.................
you are maybe some kind of robocop..... ha?????
They teach history in school, so you know your heritage. They don't call it history for no reason. It's in the past ;-)
Sometimes cultures and traditions change a lot and quickly. (Like militaristic Germany pre WWII and the current Germany.)
Yep, I'm one of those people that's even rational when he's involved on a personal level.
And I could care less if there was some part of my country declaring indepence or if they want to join another country (there are some tendencies here and there) and even less if it was a part of the kingdom that would do so.
(And as for the israeli-palestine question, we have a saying that I find most appropriatly there: where 2 are fighting, both are to blame.)
Sometimes cultures and traditions change a lot and quickly. (Like militaristic Germany pre WWII and the current Germany.)
Yep, I'm one of those people that's even rational when he's involved on a personal level.
And I could care less if there was some part of my country declaring indepence or if they want to join another country (there are some tendencies here and there) and even less if it was a part of the kingdom that would do so.
(And as for the israeli-palestine question, we have a saying that I find most appropriatly there: where 2 are fighting, both are to blame.)
Kosovo=Serbia
Banned Member
Good for you, I envy you............
And how it is getting off topic, I will only add that there were also 2 sides
fighting in Kosovo war, we didn't fought against ghosts, we fight against
KLA terrorist, and in the eyes of the west world we are only author for it. ( like
I said thanks to BBC propaganda machine ) and etc....
I will be away for few weeks, so I will give you theme to thinking in line with thread>>> Kosovo conflict >>>>> If Albanians sooner or later start to terrorize Serbs,is there possible of creating some kind of organized defense among Serbian peasants (lets says guerrilla) and how Serbian defense (guerrilla) in the Kosovo will be effective........ I think this is one of the few scenarios that is possible in following days.........................
And how it is getting off topic, I will only add that there were also 2 sides
fighting in Kosovo war, we didn't fought against ghosts, we fight against
KLA terrorist, and in the eyes of the west world we are only author for it. ( like
I said thanks to BBC propaganda machine ) and etc....
I will be away for few weeks, so I will give you theme to thinking in line with thread>>> Kosovo conflict >>>>> If Albanians sooner or later start to terrorize Serbs,is there possible of creating some kind of organized defense among Serbian peasants (lets says guerrilla) and how Serbian defense (guerrilla) in the Kosovo will be effective........ I think this is one of the few scenarios that is possible in following days.........................
And this is a really good example for the reason why one shouldn't post detailed answers to questions like "where is a Leo II vulnerable to RPG fire"...I will be away for few weeks, so I will give you theme to thinking in line with thread>>> Kosovo conflict >>>>> If Albanians sooner or later start to terrorize Serbs,is there possible of creating some kind of organized defense among Serbian peasants (lets says guerrilla) and how Serbian defense (guerrilla) in the Kosovo will be effective........ I think this is one of the few scenarios that is possible in following days.........................
The very reason why I did not respond to his Rubbish.And this is a really good example for the reason why one shouldn't post detailed answers to questions like "where is a Leo II vulnerable to RPG fire"...
Stryker001
Banned Member
!
The UN has little to preach as the annexation is illegal, if Putin was not leaving office a more robust option would have been taken directly, wait until the President is the Prime Minister, although it is not his direct brief.
An operation would have been launch already to counter the annexation, they would have had one in the filing cabinet.
To Russia this is a sign of disrespect, it is important to Russia to show her allies that she stands firm. NATO will not commit to a fight with Russia unless the UK and the US do most of the heavy lifting.
Just my view, I too have known Russians and Serb's and their psychological profiles, this was a mistake of populist politics's by those who backed the annexation.
At the first sign of trouble the EU closed its mission office, Serbian Intelligence who would have taken part in the riot on the US Embassy and the Serbian security services who fail to respond to prevent it. KFOR have hand the issue over to the EU. Kosovo is part of Serbia end of story.
The UN has little to preach as the annexation is illegal, if Putin was not leaving office a more robust option would have been taken directly, wait until the President is the Prime Minister, although it is not his direct brief.
An operation would have been launch already to counter the annexation, they would have had one in the filing cabinet.
To Russia this is a sign of disrespect, it is important to Russia to show her allies that she stands firm. NATO will not commit to a fight with Russia unless the UK and the US do most of the heavy lifting.
Just my view, I too have known Russians and Serb's and their psychological profiles, this was a mistake of populist politics's by those who backed the annexation.
Last edited:
Russia do not consider Serbia as trustworthy "ally". It is considered somewhat close ethically and religios entity... but then again half East Europe is too. Serbia wasnt any better than the rest, (Poland, etc) bashing Russia in early 90x. Russians didnt forgot that. Yes, now serbians are in trouble... and somehow sure Russia must protect them. Well, to they shock - Russia dont feel obliged.
If they really wanted to win - they should fight on they own. REALLY fight. Then, MAY BE, others will help. Fight like Chechens. Fight like Vietnamese. Fight against odds.
Russia support Serbia mainly to gain political points in the Abhazia/Osetia question, and, of course, to limit USA influence in Europe.
yes lets hope this thing whont happen to my generation becouse i am 22 years old hahah lets hope it dosntAgain opinion....
Some western says that Serbia-Russia unity are one of the few reasons why WW1 started...
If Russia and NATO directly clash on the battlefield, then..... that is the end.... my dear friend.....
So my opinion is that this scenario probably ( I hope ) will never take place, and
everyone will try to avoid this.
It is somehow possible that Russian troops came to Serbia, and be close to American, but nothing more......
Maybe give us few jets, tanks and similar support, but no Russian soldiers
will engage American..........HOPE>>>>>>>>>>>> my opinion<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Generalissimo
New Member
I don't think that there was ever talk of the two unifiying. That's just impossible, they're not geographically close, don't speak the same language, and Serbia is (sort of) on a path to join the EU.
Wishfull, desperate serbian dreams to get protection & wealth from someone else for free. From someone they mocked and bashed for the previous 100 years... Nope, i dont think Russia is THAT stupid. Ever remember why WW1 started?
Ofc, now EU is on the way. Same deal, same hopes...
I ment in the angle that they are slavic brothers. Its why Yeltsin sent his troop into Serbia b4 NATO got in there 1st right. The serbians were more happy seeing the Russians coming in than NATO.
BTW merger doesnt mean that two countries need to share a boundary. There's a russian enclave Kaliningrad between Estonia n Poland. US has Alaska.
BTW merger doesnt mean that two countries need to share a boundary. There's a russian enclave Kaliningrad between Estonia n Poland. US has Alaska.
Aye, brothers... Whole East Europe is "slavic brothers". We should remember f.e. Tito, who purged anyone with sympathy to Russia, or Miloshevich, who was best West's friend until black cat run between...
So again, such merge surely appears only in very bad russian dreams... and then they wake up and feel relieving it doesnt happened.
Merging with Russia will only prolong endless conflict there. Now EU / USA is responsible for the mess - let them also carry all consequences. Big Serbia is already dead - and now better we left it so. Small Serbia can happily join EU. Now it will be better for everyone.
Kosovo=Serbia
Banned Member
Big Serbia never came to life...... yet.
Ozzy Blizzard
New Member
Do you guys have plans for world domination or something?
"what are we doing tonight pinky?" :lol3
I want to comment on the "Great Islamic country in Europe" section of the above quote.
Firstly i never condone or support micro-nationalism or nationalism based on race, it is perhaps the main reason WW1 and WW2 was fuelled with. It only brings suffering to humanity and as we have seen with the WWs region if not global destruction.
But we all know that micro-nationalism is used as a tool for bigger powers to gain ground on their ambitions, to weaken, destabilize and even control what is perceived as the enemy.
With that said, I take offence to the usage of the name of a religion, Islam, within the context of labeling what you perceive or have been programmed as to perceive as the enemy.
In the Balkans, Islam is not the enemy of Serbs, Croats, Greeks or any other nation.
In the American continent, Islam is not the enemy of USA, Canadian citizens, or Latin American nations.
In Europe, Islam is not the enemy of Brits, Scots, Irish, Germans, French, Spaniards, Dutch.
Islam is not the enemy of any nation or faith.
What is a threat to all of the above mentioned nations and people of all nations and faiths including muslims is the politically instrumented organizations that under the disguise of Islam do un-Islamic acts.
Yes it seems a bit confusing to comprehend, when considering that people blow themselves up killing innocent people in the "name of Islam", but one needs to be able to put aside prejudices and reasearch Islam and see how those acts we see been done in the name of Islam" are actually forbidden by Islam it self.
On top of that, one can analytically study the gains and losses such actions has on Islam or muslims, the gains are 0 (zero), the losses to muslims are great.
Without been simply prejudiced, we as humanity need to understand what we are labeling as the enemy before we do so, and try to see who benefits with such acts and then see what power mongering ideology could be behind this hatred been created between humans.
I know I'm going off military related matters here, but its because of these matters that conflicts occur, thus the need for military.
I'm not trying to do a religious lecture here, its not my duty nor am I capable of doing so, but I do need to highlight a few Islamic perspectives to reduce the misunderstandings that cause prejudice and comments like the above that i quoted and sadly wars and human sufferings.
Firstly, I would like all to know that personally I respect everyones beliefs whatever they may be, as everyone is entitled to chose their belief.
Now if i may continue, the word Islam literally means and is derived from the of words "in sincerity, accepting and submission to One and Only God for peace", muslim literally means "one who does islam" the act of accepting and submitting to the One and Only God for peace, and Allah is the word with aramaic origins meaning the One and Only God. As used in the old Bibles and even used in the current day arabic Bibles.
I think many know that "God" is an english word and english only came into existance about 1000 years ago, in the times of the Abraham, Moses, Jesus or Muhammed (peace be upon them all) there was no english language and thus no such word as "God" aramaic Allah and its pronounciation versions were used.
Anyway, I dont want to bore the readers with all this, but before writing a conclusion paragraph let me say that Islam does not claim to start with Prophet Muhammed, but instead with Adam&Eve, followed by Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammed himself (peace be upon them all).
The reason im highlighting this is that Islam does not see "enemy" any nation or faiths, Islam does say that the teachings of Prophet Moses (pbuh) were deviated by people after him resulting into Judaism as we know, and the teachings of Prophet Jesus(pbuh) were deviated by people after him resulting into Christianity as we know, and we all know that the original Torah or the Bible has been changed throughout centuries thru cannons and alterations.
Quran claims that Prophet Muhammed was sent to freshen the Creators message onto humankind for the last time, and does not word anyone as enemy, it even speaks of the followers of original Torah and Bible as the believers and talks of them going to heaven like followers of the Quran.
Quran also says that there will come a time when some people will try to bring hatred and conflict amoung humans in the disguise of Islam, it clearly mentions of people even trying to deviate muslims from Islam with the use of Islams name, resulting into injustice, and human suffering.
The Quran, final book of Islam (the act of in sincerity, accepting and submission to One and Only God for peace) warns of terrorism/hatred/conflicts/wars done by non believers and misguided muslims under the name of Islam.
This is an important point to understand, a religion claiming (and personally to me proving) to be Gods will on what it created warning what it created against the misuse of the very same will !!!
I know this post of mine seems a bit like a religious sermon/lecture and I apoligize for that, but without some basic Islamic perspective about Islam by Islam, all can be easily misconceived into thinking and labeling an enemy is that.
I do not blame those who dont have enough insight into what Islam is to label Islam negativelly, especially with the un-Islamic acts, which are banned in Islam, we are seeing.
But as a part of humanity, I think everyone is responsible to various degrees to understand what causes problems, instead of simply labeling this or that as the enemy.
Otherwise, hatred attitudes will be always fed and words like "Great Islamic country in Europe" in negative/hatred sence will be uttered, further fueling hatred conflicts in the Balkans, or any part of the world.
As a muslim Turk i know what is Islam and what isnt, I also know that no one of any faith or nationality, even those we have had conflicts with, be they Serbs or Greeks are not the enemy, Serbs and Greeks are great people.
The enemy of humanity is the attitude of selfish gains resulting in the suffering of others. And only thru understanding "the other" can we overcome this, and see that "the other" might not be so different than us, at least not deserving of the demonising we may make them out to be.
Anyways, I hope this will help even if a little bit to the conflicts created by misunderstandings and misconceptions.
You can get further knowledge about what some label as the "enemy" at:
whatsislam dot com
islamcode dot com
shareislam dot com
turntoislam dot com
World peace, for all colours, nations and beliefs.
Cheers.
- Status