Indonesian Aero News

[Sandhi Yudha]

Just want to share some nice N219 photos.
Photos are recently made around Pangandaran, and taken from the IPTN Fb page.

Edit: with bonusvideo!

 

[Ahmad]

Indonesian defense company, PT Info Global, proposes its avionics product for Indonesian KFX fighter version (IFX) during Indo Defense Event in 2016. Info Global avionics has been used for several Indonesian planes like Hawk 100/200, Boeing 737-200, Hercules C-130, KT-1B, and NC 212 Maritime Patrol Aircraft (MPA).

infoglobal.co.id

Infoglobal has grown to a competent company in electronic and information technology. The main focuses of the products are aviation electronic device called Avionics. Infoglobal also develops some applications software, including training and implementation services.

m.infoglobal.co.id

 

[Ananda]

This seems to be the place in Teluk Naga for the future NASAMS installations.
So the edges of the road are painted white in order to make it more easier for foreign armed forces to target TNI-AU's NASAMS installations?

KSAU Tinjau Pembangunan Satuan Peluru Kendali NASAMS

Satrudal NASAMS TNI AU merupakan sistem pertahanan udara untuk melindungi Jakarta dengan persenjataan rudal jarak sedang.

nasional.kompas.com

@Sandhi Yudha seems your favorite Missile already begin being installed. Seems in local forums there's more photos showing the installation also.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

KSAU Tinjau Pembangunan Satuan Peluru Kendali NASAMS

Satrudal NASAMS TNI AU merupakan sistem pertahanan udara untuk melindungi Jakarta dengan persenjataan rudal jarak sedang.

nasional.kompas.com

@Sandhi Yudha seems your favorite Missile already begin being installed. Seems in local forums there's more photos showing the installation also.

Wwwwoohhw...favourite missile...

Well, i dont know the range of an AIM-120C-7 fired from a NASAMS laucher, but for sure its the most capable air-defence missile in the last 50 years in TNI inventory.

The NASAMS equipment is not delivered yet, and sharing 36 missiles over two F-16 squadrons and one NASAMS-unit is pathetic, but according to Kompas:

"Dalam kegiatan tersebut, Fadjar juga meninjau fasilitas pendukung, antara lain perkantoran, gudang amunisi dan peluncur rudal.

Kemudian pos komando, instalasi listrik, ruang briefing dan pembangunan perumahan."

(I really hate reading Kompas btw, all those pop-up advertisements not only block the view, but these things are very hard to click away, which makes reading an article a very challenging and annoying activity)

That means the NASAMS is really coming, i dont expect they doing all this if its not sure that NASAMS is coming.
And i also really hope that the delivery is not cancelled on the last moment.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Looking to the images of the link above and this one

Kasau Tinjau Pembangunan Satrudal NASAMS TNI AU di Teluk Naga

Kepala Staf Angkatan Udara (Kasau) Marsekal TNI Fadjar Prasetyo, meninjau pembangunan infrastruktur Satuan Peluru Kendali (Satrudal) NASAMS (National Advanced Surface to Air Missile System) TNI AU di Teluk Naga, Kabupaten Tangerang, Banten, Rabu (5/8/2020). Dalam kesempatan tersebut Kasau...

tangerangonline.id

we see some Mercedes-Benz G-Class cars, which all look brandnew.
Are these vehicles included in the NASAMS-package, bought seperatly specially to support the NASAMS, or cars which were already in the possession of TNI-Au but under good maintenance?

 

[Ananda]

Well, i dont know the range of an AIM-120C-7 fired from a NASAMS laucher, but for sure its the most capable air-defence missile in the last 50 years in TNI inventory.

This could be interesting, as data from Konsberg seems suggest in the range of 30km-50km. However Indonesia is the first user on tropics, so perhaps some differentiation result can happen.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

This could be interesting, as data from Konsberg seems suggest in the range of 30km-50km. However Indonesia is the first user on tropics, so perhaps some differentiation result can happen.

Most sources talk about 15+ km or around 25 km.
On the website of Kongsberg they dont give useful information.
Anyway, i found this image.
Its a Mercedes-Benz G-Class vehicle with the EO-sensor installed on it.

Sadly we can not see the whole vehicle on the Indonesian websites. For some reason the websites have posted only two uninteresting photos of the visit.

 

[Ananda]

Menristek: Drone Tempur Elang Hitam Mulai Terbang Januari 2021

Menristek mengatakan pesawat itu telah mendapatkan Sertifikat Tipe dari Indonesia Military Airworthiness Authority (IMAA).

tekno.tempo.co

Indonesian MALE UAV Elang Hitam (Black Hawk) already being targeted to have first flight in next January. This program is being put as one of national strategic project in aerospace as with N219 short range Turboprop.

DI and Lapan seems working more on aerodynamics aspects of this MALE, while Indonesian MinDef also still looking around on potential partner for further development on sensors and combat systems aspects.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Menristek: Drone Tempur Elang Hitam Mulai Terbang Januari 2021

Menristek mengatakan pesawat itu telah mendapatkan Sertifikat Tipe dari Indonesia Military Airworthiness Authority (IMAA).

tekno.tempo.co

Indonesian MALE UAV Elang Hitam (Black Hawk) already being targeted to have first flight in next January. This program is being put as one of national strategic project in aerospace as with N219 short range Turboprop.

DI and Lapan seems working more on aerodynamics aspects of this MALE, while Indonesian MinDef also still looking around on potential partner for further development on sensors and combat systems aspects.

Well, it looks like that the development of this project goes smoother and faster than the N219.

From which i understand, LAPAN already cooperated with Turkey (TUSAS?) on one of Turkeys UAVs...
So maybe they can be also a partner with this project.

 

[Ahmad]

Menristek: Drone Tempur Elang Hitam Mulai Terbang Januari 2021

Menristek mengatakan pesawat itu telah mendapatkan Sertifikat Tipe dari Indonesia Military Airworthiness Authority (IMAA).

tekno.tempo.co

Indonesian MALE UAV Elang Hitam (Black Hawk) already being targeted to have first flight in next January. This program is being put as one of national strategic project in aerospace as with N219 short range Turboprop.

DI and Lapan seems working more on aerodynamics aspects of this MALE, while Indonesian MinDef also still looking around on potential partner for further development on sensors and combat systems aspects.

Lapan will try to make SAR Radar for the UAV, for the airframe design is the responsibility of BPPT (Gov Research Agency) and PTDI. PT LEN Industry is working for mission system and flight control.

 

[Ahmad]

Well, it looks like that the development of this project goes smoother and faster than the N219.

From which i understand, LAPAN already cooperated with Turkey (TUSAS?) on one of Turkeys UAVs...
So maybe they can be also a partner with this project.

Maybe you mean BPPT ??? 2 Turkish drone from TAI which is Anka and Aksungur uses BBTA3 (under BPPT) wind tunnel facility for testing since 2008 until 2018 (latest news)

TAI perkuat kerja sama pengujian UAV dengan BPPT

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

This second CN 235 for Senegal Air Force look like MPA version if you see the belly of the airplane. Navy has already submitted their need to get another 4 CN 235 MPA. And currently according to Alman Helvas twitter, there is another CN 235 being constructed for Indonesian Armed Force.

View attachment 47551

A little bit more information about Senegal's CN235 acquisition. And yes, like you already said before, this second CN235 ordered by Senegal from IPTN is an MPA version.

PTDI lifts veil on Senegal's first CN-235 Maritime Patrol Aircraft - Naval News

PT Dirgantara Indonesia lifted the veil on the Senegalese Air Force (Armée de l'Air Sénégalaise) second CN-235 aircraft. The aircraft was officially shown in its final livery during its roll out on August 4 in Bandung.

www.navalnews.com

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

For more than two decades the N250 prototypes were just abandoned inside or sometimes outside the hangars at the IPTN-complex.
At least the museum will take care of the first prototype now. (Hopefully the visitors will also be careful when visiting the aircraft and not make it dirty and damaged.)

It seems that PA-1 (PK-XNG) already flew more than 600 hours, but then Krismon 1998 came, and of course we obeyed Worldbank/IMF, so the N250 project is now history.

Setelah perjalanan 2 hari, pesawat N250 Gatotkaca tiba di Yogyakarta - ANTARA News

ANTARA - PT Dirgantara Indonesia (PTDI), Jumat (21/8), menyerahkan pesawat N250 Prototype Aircraft 01 (PA01) Gatotkaca untuk melengkapi koleksi Museum Pusat ...

m.antaranews.com

 

[Ananda]

The Nationalistics view that circulating among Indonesian media, forumers (including some local "analyst") are saying that IMF and World Bank killed N250 and N2130 projects. However as I've chances at that time hearing and even take a peek on what really being discussed by IMF and World Bank through my colleague in Bapenas, they're not saying N250 and N2130 have to be terminated.

What they're saying was for Indonesian Government and IPTN have to find other sources of Investment to finance the projects and not through Government budget or Money to finance them. That's make sense, as Indonesian government in 1998-2000 practically broke. How IMF and World Bank as Indonesian creditors want to give their money to finance some projects that will not give return soon and thus will not be able paying them back ?
That's simple Bankers analysis. As Banker, I will not give my Bank's money to a customer for a project that's not have good commercially viability, thus will just sink the money and have small chance to be return to the Bank.

That's what happen to N250. It's over engineered thus will be more costly to the competitors in the market, which already have more Economics of scale to begin with. In turn this will make it less competitive on that niche market. Habibie is a brilliant engineer, no doubt about that. However I'm not sure about of him as good commercial CEO for IPTN.

What kill N250 and N2130 is combination Indonesian technocrats (even under brief Habibie Presidency) not going to support the project using government funds, and no Investors coming to take on the project. There's no conspiracy by Western Powers to kill the project (why would they, the projects will use mostly Western Parts) since other aerospace players already deemed the N250 is not feasible commercially anyway. N250 will not going to be competitive against ATR or Bombardier Dash 8 simply because it is too advanced for what market need.

I have posted before on Turboprop market. It's a niche market that can be good only for short range thin routes. This's what I got from Airlines Industry sources. For that the market will need an Economics Turboprop, and not a fancy ones like N250 (especially for 90's standard). The advance of more economical regional jets also push down market for Turboprop. In fact IPTN should not bother to go with N250 development and straight to N2130. N250 is wasting resources, and if that time what IPTN has was working prototype of N2130 (instead only paper design) perhaps more Investors will come to work on the project.

That's why DI as IPTN successor now try again with simple turboprop like N219 as it's potentially that can still gain shares in it's niche market section. However DI after that has to prove it can regained the Investment costs and shown their products is competitive ones. After all DI should be Aerospace company and not research institute.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Seems to be some kind of exportlicence for F-16s to Indonesia.

https://forsvaret.no/forsvarsmateriell/ForsvaretDocuments/FMA-offentlig-journal-uke-412019.pdf https://forsvaret.no/forsvarsmateriell/ForsvaretDocuments/offentligjournal_FMA_uke452019.pdf https://forsvaret.no/forsvarsmateriell/ForsvaretDocuments/offentligjournal_FMA_uke472019.pdf

Maybe for spareparts, because these Norwegian F-16 are all first generation F-16s with a lot of flighthours.

 

[Ananda]

It could be spare parts, but it can be part of strategy to gain the number of Fighters squadron. TNI-AU wants to have 11 active Fighter squadrons in their ORBAT from existing 8. They could be try to get them with 'say' 3 new sq of brand new fighters (whatever the choice either F-16V, Rafale or Eurofighter) and buy 3 sq of used F-16 and upgrade them to Blk 50 standard as current 2 sq being upgrade on that. It will bring them the quantity they want with Economics Budget.

If they choose that, practically they only procured 3 sq brand new fighters, and procured used F-16 with upgrade program to replace Hawk 200. If they choose that, they will achieve the aim of 11 Sq target with:
1 sq Flankers,
1 sq COIN (Super Tucano),
1 sq LIFT (TA-50),
3 sq of new fighters (what will be the choice),
5 sq of existing+used upgrade F-16 A/B/C/D.

Buying used but doing upgrade locally (like they are doing right now to the existing A/B), will give MinDef room politically for Local Industry work share and Tech Transfer.

 

[ChestnutTree]

The JDAM kits arrived today at Isyahwudi Air Force Base. 102 kits in total according to Foreign Military Sales data.






@Ananda I was hoping whether you can shed some light on chatter I've heard on my side. A few years ago I have heard tid bits of information here and there while talking with Air Force personnel that they were hoping to get Paveway II's in the near future and I was wondering if it was reflected on your end on the financial side of things.

 

[Ananda]

@ChestnutTree as far as I know US Defense Procurement financing usually will not be reflected in commercial financial market. Unlike other exporting Defence Nations which're common on them to use commercial Banks to provide financing, US Defense export especially that come under FMS program most likely will be finance through US EXIM Bank.

This I suspect since most of the times US Defence export items, come from their own (US Defense Department) procurement batch. That's why they often called it US Surplus as it come from their Surplus batch production. Thus basically it's ownership first by US Government and sell it as surplus items to Foreign Nation.
For that US Government will used their own Bank (US EXIM Bank) to provide financing or if the client choose to pay in full, still through US EXIM Bank for banking payment services.

In such any confirmation on US Defense Procurement will be better read from US Government sources (FMS data for example as you have put above). If it's already there, then the procurement program already exists.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

It could be spare parts, but it can be part of strategy to gain the number of Fighters squadron. TNI-AU wants to have 11 active Fighter squadrons in their ORBAT from existing 8. They could be try to get them with 'say' 3 new sq of brand new fighters (whatever the choice either F-16V, Rafale or Eurofighter) and buy 3 sq of used F-16 and upgrade them to Blk 50 standard as current 2 sq being upgrade on that. It will bring them the quantity they want with Economics Budget.

If they choose that, practically they only procured 3 sq brand new fighters, and procured used F-16 with upgrade program to replace Hawk 200. If they choose that, they will achieve the aim of 11 Sq target with:
1 sq Flankers,
1 sq COIN (Super Tucano),
1 sq LIFT (TA-50),
3 sq of new fighters (what will be the choice),
5 sq of existing+used upgrade F-16 A/B/C/D.

Buying used but doing upgrade locally (like they are doing right now to the existing A/B), will give MinDef room politically for Local Industry work share and Tech Transfer.

I hope (if true) these unknown amount of old second hand F-16A/B from Norway will be only used for spareparts.
With exception for a single order in 1989 for two F-16B Block 15OCU aircraft as replacements for crashed aircraft, all the aircraft Norway have received between 1979-1984, are from Block 1, 5, 10 and 15. So even all Norwegian F-16s got the MLU, these are the real old worn out ones.

Forcing an eMLU on top of an MLU from 20 years ago is also not a cost effective solution to keep these 40 years old jetfighters serviceable in a safe way. I really hope it will be not a cheap 3rd World Country way to get suddenly one or more fighter squadrons out of nowhere.

About the JDAM-kits:
Thats a smart and cost-effective way to turn 102 old free-fall bombs (i expect Mk 82) in to PGMs...
Just $2,2 million.

 

[Ananda]

I really hope it will be not a cheap 3rd World Country way to get suddenly one or more fighter squadrons out of nowhere.

US right now is preparing to upgrade 300+ of their F-16 to be used at least another two decades. By that time those F-16 will be in average of 50 years old. So buying used F-16 and upgrade them is not a cheap 3rd world country solution

This method off course will create many debates, and some will used it to discredit the administration. Just like PDI attack SBY decision to buy 24 used but upgraded F-16 C/D, instead 8 brand new Block 52.
I put the scenario above just my potential prediction on what can happen. From present TNI-AU Fighters 8 sq ORBAT, 1 (F-5) already without operating aircraft and other 2 (Hawk 200/100) already showing deteriorating capabilities in operational and now numbers.

Thus if they still want to get in to 11 Sq Fighters ORBAT as TNI-AU aim, then they have to prepare six Fighters sq's with 3 for replacement and another 3 for additional growth.
Do Indonesia have budget for all 6 new Fighters sq's ? What if 3 sq of new fighters and 3 sq used but upgraded Fighters, comes as alternative ?

Well they're talking to Austria on getting used Eurofighters (albeit with relative low flying hours). I don't know about what this Norway F-16 will be, probably they will be used as spares. It's not new, the previous Bimasena 2 consists of 24 upgrade F-16 for fully operational use and 6 Spares.
Thus probably you're right, those ex Norway F-16 will be used as spares.

Got rumours (as got only through conversation), TNI-AU at this moment actually has 3:1 for Pilot - Fighter ratio for 8 sq. Thus if they want to maintain 2:1 ratio, they have enough Manning for 11 Sq. This's what I heard as "rumours" on why TNI-AU seems quite confidence for 11 Sq Fighters ORBAT, as seems they have enough Manning production.

Again all this just my own speculation on how TNI-AU going to get to 11 Sq within shortest possible route. Based on what I read in media, the potential tendencies what MinDef actions, and what realities on Budget.

So far the used but upgraded F-16 showing acceptable operational readiness. Thus shown doing with proper upgrade, those "old" F-16 still can provide acceptable performance.
Buying ex Norway F-16 perhaps will be more as spares to keep those F-16 in acceptable readiness. However the path for additional used but upgraded F-16 in my opinion can't be discounted yet as one option to be taken as strategy to get in to TNI-AU target postures.

Unless the Administration prepare for "more than proportional" Investment for Air Force. Considering they are also preparing another big Investment for Navy, I have doubt they will prepare to invest on 3 sq's of brand new F-16 plus another 3 sq's of brand new fighters (that could be Rafale, Eurofighter, or Flankers).
Well they can go for LCA (FA-50) instead F-16V, Rafale, Eurofighters or Flankers. Now if that what they're going to do, perhaps they will be enough budget for 6 sq's of brand new LCA.

Oohh well, that's enough for potential scenarios talking