Indonesian Aero News

[Ananda]

https://www.facebook.com/181276675314017/posts/4284657698309207

Upgrade the Sukhois to Su-30SME level.

I don't see there's an intentions to upgrade the Flankers more than "Life Extension" that they are doing it at this moment. I'm no aerospace professional, but by the look on what they are doing, it's not in the same standard with F-16 MLU. Seems similar with what the upgrade work level done with Hawk 200. In sense I don't think MinDef plan to used both of them for long period.

Forget the F-15EX and order more F-16s, second hand F-16C/Ds or new F-16V.

I believe they can acquire 40 used F-16C/D and done proper MLU with the cost of a Sq of F-15EX. With that they can have 72 from present 32 in inventory. LM already give license toward TNI-AU and DI to do MLU work, and LM and US I do believe will not have problem to provide more license to do more MLU work.

So it's the ideal solution, but seems they (MinDef) still trying to gain US approval for F-15EX. The above solution seems what US offering asside F-16V, but not what MinDef wants.

So, if US will not give clearance for F-15EX, I do see they will go all Rafale. F-16 not Politically 'sexy' enough to gain public attraction. Certainly for those in public with Fan Boys mentality. Those fan boys mentality is the ones that sell with online social media.

 

[swerve]

When you refer to F-16 MLU do you mean a major upgrade like to F-16V standard? If so, it seems like a no-brainer: excellent capability at relatively low price.

 

[OPSSG]

…seems they (MinDef) still trying to gain US approval for F-15EX. The above solution seems what US offering asside F-16V, but not what MinDef wants.

So, if US will not give clearance for F-15EX, I do see they will go all Rafale. F-16 not Politically 'sexy' enough to gain public attraction. Certainly for those in public with Fan Boys mentality. Those fan boys mentality is the ones that sell with online social media.

1. Indonesia’s Ministry of Defence has hired a Washington law firm, Ott, Bielitzki & O’Neill to provide “legal and regulatory advice” for the ministry, including “preparing briefing material for use with U.S. government officials related to U.S. defense procurement requests.” The contract, which was signed 14 Jun 2021 is for US$25,000 per month.

2. If Indonesia’s Ministry of Defence is able to adjust the country’s non-aligned policies (a bit more), Ott, Bielitzki & O’Neill will have more success. Being prepared for the meetings with US officials is really important, as more arms sales to Indonesia, needs support from many sections of the US Government, including the US Congress — see this Apr 2021 briefing note for US Congress on Singapore on the breath and scale of cooperation.

3. Indonesia, and the rest of the ASEAN countries lack the military capability required to confront China much outside of their sovereign jurisdictions, and often even from within them. ASEAN countries, as a result, are neither suited nor inclined to participating in a classical concert of powers in the Indo-Pacific. However, their ability to navigate between the US and China by not choosing sides also faces growing challenges.
Power politics and internal weakness have steadily eroded the ability of ASEAN to uphold a degree of regional order capable of tying both superpowers to the region. This has contributed to a rise in ‘minilateral’ coalition building and the steady decline in the multilateral influence of ASEAN organised meetings like ARF.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1467839683199602690

4. The big macro-trends on China’s rise and American decline are clear. To compensate, Team Biden has allocated a lot more face time and not just with Secretary of State Antony Blinken (who just wrapped up his visit to Jakarta on 13 to 14 Dec 2021) but also at the next level. By the next level, I mean with Team Biden key officials like Assistant Secretary Dan Kritenbrink; and with Deputy National Security Advisor Daleep Singh. Blinken has given a set of 5 generic end goals with no specific indication of how to achieve them, and no indication of how to engage China to achieve them. China will be the biggest single factor influencing the success of this non-strategy, as Blinken stated them in Indonesia:

(a) Advance free and open Indo-Pacific;​

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(b) Forge stronger connections;​

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(c) Promote broad-based prosperity;​

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(d) Build a more resilient region; and​

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(e) Bolster security.​

 

[Ananda]

Blinken has given a set of 5 generic end goals with no specific indication of how to achieve them, and no indication of how to engage China to achieve them. China will be the biggest single factor influencing the success of this non-strategy,

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1470731700250587143

Economics engagement is a must for US if they want to compete with China growing influence. Defense is just not going to be enough. Blinken in Jakarta also talk with Indonesian Minister of Everything, which many sees as China good friend in Jakarta. There's many controversy on Luhut position on Geopolitical rivalry between China and US toward Indonesian position. Perhaps he's just care on whose going to provide Investment to Indonesia more.

If so, it seems like a no-brainer: excellent capability at relatively low price

The MLU license that LM already work with DI and TNI-AU at this moment is to upgrade toward Blk 50+ standard. However (correct me if I'm wrong), the airframes job on MLU will be the same whether upgrading it to blk 50+ or Viper. The difference only on which sensors and avionics kit you're going to buy for upgrade.

This's seems what LM sales guys try to lobby as alternative toward F-15EX or even Rafale. As always this's in Indonesia is the realm of Political choice and not users/technical ones that will be more determining factor.

 

[Ananda]

Indonesia Pilih Rafale dan F-15 EX, KSAU: Dengan Berat Hati, Kita Tinggalkan Rencana Pembelian Su-35 - Kompas.com

Menurut dia, salah satu pertimbangan yang membuat pemerintah memilih untuk membeli Rafale dan F-15 EX adalah anggaran.

amp.kompas.com

TNI-AU chief officially in Media talk that the choice for next Indonesian AF fighters already narrowing to Rafale and F-15EX. However it's first time TNI-AU chief officially saying in Media they are not going to pursue with Su-35.

However I'm bit chuckle with the reason why they go with Rafale. He says: "It's budget thing, if those who hold payment decision doesn't want to go with that direction (means previous fighters that being submitted), then we can't continue mentioned (previous submission) again. So the direction is Rafale".

Like I said many times, it's Political choices in the end that'll rule. However it's also means (with Rafale and F-15EX), due to current backlog, it will take at least 3 years at fastest to get the fighters begin inducted toward TNI-AU inventory. That's also the first batch (if the first batch being signed early next year).

So 2025 at the fastest for first batch. In mean time, how about second hand F-16 with MLU ?

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Indonesia Pilih Rafale dan F-15 EX, KSAU: Dengan Berat Hati, Kita Tinggalkan Rencana Pembelian Su-35 - Kompas.com

Menurut dia, salah satu pertimbangan yang membuat pemerintah memilih untuk membeli Rafale dan F-15 EX adalah anggaran.

amp.kompas.com

TNI-AU chief officially in Media talk that the choice for next Indonesian AF fighters already narrowing to Rafale and F-15EX. However it's first time TNI-AU chief officially saying in Media they are not going to pursue with Su-35.

However I'm bit chuckle with the reason why they go with Rafale. He says: "It's budget thing, if those who hold payment decision doesn't want to go with that direction (means previous fighters that being submitted), then we can't continue mentioned (previous submission) again. So the direction is Rafale".

Like I said many times, it's Political choices in the end that'll rule. However it's also means (with Rafale and F-15EX), due to current backlog, it will take at least 3 years at fastest to get the fighters begin inducted toward TNI-AU inventory. That's also the first batch (if the first batch being signed early next year).

So 2025 at the fastest for first batch. In mean time, how about second hand F-16 with MLU ?

How many years ago are those F-5E/F from SkU.14 taken out of service? Five or seven years ago? That means at least three more years wothout OWN fighters for SkU 14.

If our government spend less on extreme expensive monuments like that bambu-monument Getah Getih of Rp550.000.000 and many other useless projects, then there should be enough money left over for a full squadron of T-50s or second hand F-16s (with or without upgrade) to fill the empty hole.

 

[Ananda]

That means at least three more years wothout OWN fighters for SkU 14.

Capacity wise the F-5 actually already been replaced by the 2nd sq of F-16. However it's also mean no additional capacity building (when the procurement of refurbished 24 F-16 C/D should bring).

The media fill with 'idiots' thinking that doesn't want more refurbished F-16, when opportunity arrive. The idea of has to be brand new assets procurement, is very Political derive. Small quantity but new is better than more quantity but refurbished.

Add:
If they want to go with Rafale, then stick with it. At least until 2040. Don't side track to other Fighters. Rafale just like other Frenchie stuff it's expensive to maintain. However just like other expensive items, it can be managed if enough resources committed. That's what I always afraid with Indonesia, every time there's changing in administration.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Indonesia Pilih Rafale dan F-15 EX, KSAU: Dengan Berat Hati, Kita Tinggalkan Rencana Pembelian Su-35 - Kompas.com

Menurut dia, salah satu pertimbangan yang membuat pemerintah memilih untuk membeli Rafale dan F-15 EX adalah anggaran.

amp.kompas.com

TNI-AU chief officially in Media talk that the choice for next Indonesian AF fighters already narrowing to Rafale and F-15EX. However it's first time TNI-AU chief officially saying in Media they are not going to pursue with Su-35.

However I'm bit chuckle with the reason why they go with Rafale. He says: "It's budget thing, if those who hold payment decision doesn't want to go with that direction (means previous fighters that being submitted), then we can't continue mentioned (previous submission) again. So the direction is Rafale".

Like I said many times, it's Political choices in the end that'll rule. However it's also means (with Rafale and F-15EX), due to current backlog, it will take at least 3 years at fastest to get the fighters begin inducted toward TNI-AU inventory. That's also the first batch (if the first batch being signed early next year).

So 2025 at the fastest for first batch. In mean time, how about second hand F-16 with MLU ?

Yes, 2025 maybe for the Rafale, but for the F-15EX TNI-AU has to wait even longer, until 2027.

TNI AU pastikan beli pesawat tempur Rafale dan F-15 EX

TNI Angkatan Udara memastikan akan membeli pesawat tempur generasi 4,5, yakni Dassault Rafale buatan Perancis dan F-15 EX buatan Amerika ...

m.antaranews.com

Indonesia gives up on Russian aircraft purchase, instead turning to US and French options

Indonesia has admitted defeat in its attempt to buy Russian fighter jets and will now decide between the Boeing F-15EX Eagle II and the Dassault Rafale.

www.defensenews.com

Capacity wise the F-5 actually already been replaced by the 2nd sq of F-16. However it's also mean no additional capacity building (when the procurement of refurbished 24 F-16 C/D should bring).

Add:
If they want to go with Rafale, then stick with it. At least until 2040. Don't side track to other Fighters.

Yes, but the second F-16 squadron (SkU.16) is stationed at Pekanbaru. At Iswahyudi only SkU 3 and SkU 15 are left over.

"At least until 2040"? In my opinion at least until 2050, multirole fighters are usable for more than 25 years, and with updates even much longer. Looking to the last decades 40 years of service should be possible.

 

[Ananda]

"At least up to 2040", what I mean in here until that period stick to support Rafale. Don't playing around for another type of MRCA, as what Indonesian administration usually do when new one coming to town.

Rafale and F-15EX (what ever going to be choose or even both), are not only more expensive to procured but also more expensive to maintain then what TNI-AU usually operate (save the Flankers). So they have to be optimise and efficient in operating by reducing the type to operate.

If they (MinDef and TNI-AU) can be disciplined not sidetracked up to 2040, hopefully the operational resources can be optimise for operating those types effectively. It's simple mathematics of fleet Management.

Anyway just browsing Indonesian local defense blogs, forums, and laughing at the Russian fanboys (Russophile) reaction. From dejection toward blaming everybody. One of those Russophile idiots even blaming Ministry of Finance and Bapenas (aka 'finance' people).

Don't they understand, 'finance' people only assess the budget submission. They only make sure available financing schemes and make sure all calculation for sustainment already included.

Those Russophile never understand that CAATSA is not the only problem or even main problem on Su-35 procurement. The main problem is because Russian did not want to provide Tech transfer, thus resulted doing counter trade scheme. Counter trade scheme is always problematic in implementation and open to corruption.

That's the main reason that Su-35 is already in problem, even before CAATSA come. The scheme that previous term MinDef and Trade Ministry can't get to went through filter from 'finance' people,cause there're many transparency issues need to be resolved.

If those idiots Russophile want someone to blame, and blame the incompetence previous term MinDef and Trade Ministry.

At least for me, there's some satisfaction looking to those Russophile reactions. I bet there's crying on those Russian sales agent that their 'botch' counter trade scheme finally squash down as it should be

 

[Ananda]

GMFI Akan Luncurkan SmartDock untuk Pengerjaan Pesawat C130H

Garuda Maintenance Facility (GMFI) akan luncurkan SmartDock untuk pengerjaan pesawat C130H

industri.kontan.co.id

GMF Aero already preparing their infrastructure for Maintenance and Refurbished job for C-130H. This's already few days old and got sideways with the news on new fighters procurement.

However this kind of thing actually very important for maintenance and refurbished support in Indonesia. GMF is the biggest MRO in Indonesia. This kind of thing also work that related to C-130J deal with LM. With LM help GMF established MRO capabilities and license for C-130.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

GMFI Akan Luncurkan SmartDock untuk Pengerjaan Pesawat C130H

Garuda Maintenance Facility (GMFI) akan luncurkan SmartDock untuk pengerjaan pesawat C130H

industri.kontan.co.id

GMF Aero already preparing their infrastructure for Maintenance and Refurbished job for C-130H. This's already few days old and got sideways with the news on new fighters procurement.

However this kind of thing actually very important for maintenance and refurbished support in Indonesia. GMF is the biggest MRO in Indonesia. This kind of thing also work that related to C-130J deal with LM. With LM help GMF established MRO capabilities and license for C-130.

It is remarkable that they don't improve Depohar 10 at Husein Sastranegara to become a leading MRO-center for Indonesia/South-East Asia. Indonesia is the biggest C-130 user in this corner of the world for decades.

Maybe it is more cost effective to let GMF do it, because of the existing infrastructure there.

Now we are talking about Depohar 10... they recently develop a Bell 412 loading/unloading stand for the C-130.
Very practical, i don't know if its based on a foreign design, but of its fully in-house developed, then they have to get a patent for it.

DISLITBANG

www.dislitbang-tniad.mil.id

 

[Ananda]

that they don't improve Depohar 10 at Husein Sastranegara to become a leading MRO-center for Indonesia/South-East Asia. Indonesia is the biggest C-130 user in this corner of the world for decades.

MRO is highly competitive business. Fact that most successful MRO globally also related to big airlines or aerospace company.

That aerospace company in Bandung is a remnant of a bloated example of inefficient SOE to begin with. The remnant of once big bloated IPTN already become relative leaner but still highly inefficient company. Not a good base to develop for efficient MRO business.

GMF is not an highly efficient company, but surprisingly better than it's parent Garuda Indonesia. Still as MRO it's the most efficient one in Indonesia, especially as SOE. Thus the administration has no choice to used them as model to develop for Aerospace MRO. What choice do they have, DI or other Aero MRO infrastructure are much worse choice to develop as lead Aero MRO in Indonesia.

 

[Ananda]

Double Post

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

MRO is highly competitive business. Fact that most successful MRO globally also related to big airlines or aerospace company.

That aerospace company in Bandung is a remnant of a bloated example of inefficient SOE to begin with. The remnant of once big bloated IPTN already become relative leaner but still highly inefficient company. Not a good base to develop for efficient MRO business.

GMF is not an highly efficient company, but surprisingly better than it's parent Garuda Indonesia. Still as MRO it's the most efficient one in Indonesia, especially as SOE. Thus the administration has no choice to used them as model to develop for Aerospace MRO. What choice do they have, DI or other Aero MRO infrastructure are much worse choice to develop as lead Aero MRO in Indonesia.

Yes, big chance that GMF will take care of both the C-130s and A400Ms.



The Elang Hitam UAV is still under development and we are waiting for the first flight. So it will take many years until we have serial production and several in active service.

But there are already a couple of smaller indigenous UAVs, one of them is the Wulung. ( PT. Dirgantara Indonesia (Persero) )
After years of development and a lot of financial investments, IPTN seems to be able to produce the Wulung.

Why is the Wulung still (almost) not in use by our armed forces or coast guard? It looks like a very usable UAV to me.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

First of all, i want to wish all Defencetalk-members here a blessed new year!

On the last day of 2021, the 3rd out of 9 ordered NC212i was delivered to TNI-AU. NC212i number 1 was delivered on 26 Januari 2021 and number 2 on 26 Oktober 2021, but the difference between the first two and this third NC212i is that the 3rd one is delivered in rain-making configuration to be able to perform weather modification technology/ Teknologi Modifikasi Cuaca (TMC) operations.

This third aircraft is for Skadron Udara 4 at Lanud Abdulrachman Saleh in Malang. Next year (2022) IPTN plans to deliver again 3 NC212i to the airforce, with also one of these three in rain-making configuration. From the '70s until this year IPTN has built 119 NC212 aircrafts in total.

Di Hari Terakhir 2021, PT DI Kirim Unit Ketiga NC-212i "Rain Maker" untuk Skadron Udara 4 TNI AU

Meski sisa tahun 2021 tinggal hitungan jam lagi, ada kabar bahwa hari ini, 31 Desember 2021, PT Dirgantara Indonesia (DI) telah mengirimkan unit ketiga pesawat angkut ringan NC-212i pesanan Skadron Udara 4 TNI AU. Secara total, PT DI mendapatkan kontrak untuk pengadaan sebanyak 9 (sembilan) unit...

www.indomiliter.com

 

[Ananda]

@Sandhi Yudha and all other members and lurkers happy new year 2022. Hope this will be better year for all.

https://www.facebook.com/764115790355992/posts/4117692994998238

Add the FB page from DI on that NC212i delivery. They deliver it by end of year cause it's bit late from them. From what I gather they are should be delivered a batch of 3 each year from 2021,22,and 23. This still problem with DI. Even with small order they're still have problem delivering in time.

 

[Ananda]

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=284649777029322&id=100064529056448

TNI-AU FB put article on their Chief visit to RSAF. In their FB he's only visiting RSAF Sq 125 that operating H225M (similar helicopter that TNI-AU already operating along AS-335 Super Puma).

However in RSAF FB page:

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=293998542757419&id=100064418270589

He's also visiting RSAF A330 MRTT, why TNI-AU FB didn't mention it ? Interesting ? #gosipmode

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

A short video uploaded 4 days ago by BRIN, about the N219 and N219 Amfibi, with some shots about the research and development of the amphibious variant.

I wonder in what stage the development now is.



And here an update about the Elang Hitam UAV.
The first flight was scheduled for end 2021 but is now planned for begin this year.

Jelang Uji Terbang Perdana, Prototipe Drone Elang Hitam Disebut Gunakan Mesin Piston Rotax 915 iS

Jika tidak ada aral melintang, prototipe drone tempur (UCAV) pertama buatan Indonesia, yaitu Elang Hitam akan terbang perdana pada bulan Februari mendatang. Dari serangkaian persiapan yang tengah dilakukan PT Dirgantara Indonesia, sumber tak resmi menyebut bila drone MALE (Medium Altitule Long...

www.indomiliter.com

A new video from BRIN.

 

[Ananda]

http://instagr.am/p/CYft2KRvkos/
Instagram from Indonesian Ambassador to US on his talk with Boeing delegates. They give him replica model of F-15EX.

Anyway this shown that the lobby in Washington still going strong on F-15EX endeavors. The Twitter Guy (as good Frenchie salesman that he is) still talk and put doubt in social media (where his loyal followers take on his so called insight), whether US will ever give green light to Indonesia for F-15EX.

Our Indonesia Presence

www.boeing.com

Boeing sites in meantime put their future presence in Indonesia for F-15EX, AEW&C, P-8 and KC-46.

Off course it's still all marketing effort, but a company like Boeing also have their own lobbyist in Capitol Hill and White House. Thus they will not going to offer anything that they'll see will not pass US Administration and Congress.

So the question now more not on US approval (like Tweeter Guy online 'gosip'), but more to can Indonesia afford it. I have been telling in this thread since 2020, that the snippets from finance people on Fighters procurement fund that already available is USD 1.1+ bio. So the Twitter guy talk on MoF only agree on that number actually because it's the financing line that already available.

Like I put some time ago, any financing line has to be agree by MoF guys. That line actually what being prepared for Su-35, since before by previous MinDef it's the only line for Fighters procurement that being submitted.

Su-35 financing line already been agreed upon since 2019 for 2020 usage. However what's been holding it is the finalisation on counter trade deals from Trade Ministry that's problematic from beginning. CAATSA actually in my opinion more as excuse by present MinDef to get away from the deals due to problematic counter trade deals finalisation. After all TNI-AU not really enthusiasts with Flankers to begin with. Only Political situation that make them take Flankers.

COVID means all other financing from multiple ministries now being focus for COVID situation. However those for funds that're not been allocated yet. That's why C-130J can go ahead since the fund already allocated before COVID. While the SU-35 fund since the deal stuck, but the fund already allocated, can be use for other Fighters. Why? Since the fund already allocated for Fighters procurement, and thus by budget practice can't be used to other usage asside procurement for Fighters.

Thus whether both Rafale and F-15EX as TNI-AU chief talk in media, or only one of them, all back to Indonesian capabilities to afford them. US before more active on giving approval for F-16V mostly due to their own 'doubt' whether F-15 can be operated efficiently by TNI-AU to their own operational budget. Off course US hope Indonesia goes with F-16V and F-15EX combo instead Rafale. That's where the lobby game actually playing.

That's why Twitter guy as good Frenchie salesman, always put doubt on US Fighters availability. He knows there's also US salesman lobby that also want to counter Frenchie effort on Rafale.

 

[ADMk2]

I’m sure the good French salesman doesn’t want anyone to have a close look at French Airforce Rafale availability…

After 20+ year of service, this is the best France can do… 55% availability…



Link to original image: (21) Porte-parole du ministère des Armées on Twitter: "En 2018, @florence_parly s'était engagée à améliorer les taux de disponibilité de l'ensemble de nos aéronefs. Un engagement tenu et des résultats à la hauteur de nos ambitions, 4 ans après la naissance de la Direction de la Maintenance aéronautique. https://t.co/OWVlXkbjDw" / Twitter