Indonesia: 'green water navy'
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Ananda
The Bunker Group
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Keris FB put video from TNI-AL of ITS Garibaldi (soon to be call KRI Sriwijaya ?), being escorted by both PPA KRI Brawijaya and KRI Prabu Siliwangi. Some called TNI-AL mini carrier group.
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18K views · 757 reactions | TAYANGAN KHUSUS - SELAMAT DATANG ITS GIUSEPPE GARIBALDI DI INDONESIA Follow & Mention Twitter kami: @TNIAL ✅ Like & Follow Facebook: Dispen AL / Fanspage TNI ANGKATAN LAUT ✅ Follow IG: tni_angkatan_laut ✅ #jalesvevajayamahe #tnial #indonesiannavy #kasallaksamanatnimuhammadali #kasalmuhammadali #laksamanamuhammadali | TNI Angkatan Laut
TAYANGAN KHUSUS - SELAMAT DATANG ITS GIUSEPPE GARIBALDI DI INDONESIA Follow & Mention Twitter kami: @TNIAL ✅ Like & Follow Facebook: Dispen AL / Fanspage TNI ANGKATAN LAUT ✅ Follow IG:...
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One thing for sure, it is looking good on sail pass.
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173K views · 5.1K reactions | KRI Prabu Siliwangi-321 melaksanakan Passing Exercise (PASSEX) atau Sailing Pass bersama ITS Garibaldi / KRI SRIWIJAYA. Video : @fansmu208 | Indonesia Defence Review
KRI Prabu Siliwangi-321 melaksanakan Passing Exercise (PASSEX) atau Sailing Pass bersama ITS Garibaldi / KRI SRIWIJAYA. Video : @fansmu208
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I do still believe they can only replace Aspide fixed Position with Shorad. Well this carrier will mostly stay within Indonesia water anyway. So point defence shorad should be ok, I think.
Indonesia waters (teritorial plus EEZ) is 6.4 km2 thus already more then twice of Mediterania 2.5 km2. This carrier will have enough waters to handle by staying within teritory.
Circulating on line from TNI-AD AH-64E pilot, that training on deck landing simulator. This seems in line with TNI-AL chief that talk the carrier helicopter will come from all 3 TNI branches, not just from TNI-AL.
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Ananda
The Bunker Group
Begin to trickling online video from Journo/Enthusiats that attend welcoming event of ITS Garibaldi. It is been schedulle hand over ceremony will be done soon, with President, Defence Minister and all TNI Heads. That ceremony's expected to change the name from ITS Giuseppe Garibaldi to KRI Sriwijaya.
Marina Militare crew still dominate Garibaldi operation. Thus it is clearly will take time to hand over operation to TNI-AL crew. So I really doubt this ship soon can participate as mother ship for helicopters on fire fighting operation, as Prabowo wants. Unless TNI-AL have different arrangement with Marina Militare for crew arrangement.
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Marina Militare crew still dominate Garibaldi operation. Thus it is clearly will take time to hand over operation to TNI-AL crew. So I really doubt this ship soon can participate as mother ship for helicopters on fire fighting operation, as Prabowo wants. Unless TNI-AL have different arrangement with Marina Militare for crew arrangement.
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Sandhi Yudha
Well-Known Member
Yes, it seems the name will indeed become KRI Sriwijaya. I expect it will get boegnummer 101.
Indonesia's First Aircraft Carrier: Former Italian Ship ‘Garibaldi’ Reaches Domestic Waters - Naval News
Arrival of KRI Sriwijaya in Jakarta.
Momen ITS Garibaldi Bersandar di Jakarta usai Berlayar dari Italia, Jadi Kapal Induk Pertama TNI
In this video, the naval chief of staff confirms that Lampung becomes the homebase of KRI Sriwijaya, because of the geographic conditions. It is hower unclear yet in which unit it will end up, but for now it will be part of the support vessels.
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Ananda
The Bunker Group
Indonesian Navy to retrofit Giuseppe Garibaldi for 20-year service
Indonesian Navy Chief of Staff (KSAL) Admiral Muhammad Ali confirmed that the Giuseppe Garibaldi, set to become Indonesia's first aircraft carrier, ...
en.antaranews.com
15-20 year of Service confirm the intention to keep her in operation for 2040+. Fincantieri is the lead with PAL as integrator for refit project. Remain to be seen the yard location where the refit will be done. I still suspect either Republik Palindo or Noahtu that already sign partnership agreement with Fincantieri. PAL CEO definetely try to lobby on PAL yard, but he's already overwhelm PAL capacity.
Tropicalise habitable systems is expected and also electronics upgrade. However I still doubt they want to change the propulsion from present COGAG to CODAG. Is simply too complex and need a lot of changes on structural and engine room space.
From rumours that I heard Fincantieri offer two option; optimise present COGAG for tropical condition (more straight forward simple adjustment) and CODAG conversion. 2nd one is more expensive and much more complex job. This is why I suspect tropicalise COGAG is what more likely to happen.
Also the weapon system is not being talk as part of retrofit.
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ComradeVortex
Member
Putting in this thread because of Marines, but a delivery of 35 AAV7A1 is expected to take place, with the first 10 arriving before the end of this month. No makelaar.
Sandhi Yudha
Well-Known Member
These 35 AAV7A1s, are these second hands from the same source as the current vehicles in Korps Marinir's possession (South-Korea), or are these ex-USMC?
ComradeVortex
Member
ex-USMC, the deal was made with the US
Ananda
The Bunker Group
The # 35 is coming from Frenchie Salesman video. Take that with salt as he has shown wrong several times when talking outside French-Euro deal. He is not in the inner circle of US deal. However AAV7 ex USMC has been in discussion for few years since the time Andika Prakarsa still TNI Chief.
His talk on US G to G has no brokerage or middle man also not entirely true. We see that in the case of AH-64 and F-16, eventough has to admit the role of middle man is not as substantial as other supplier procurement.
The difference from what i see is not due to G to G, but more to financing. Middleman in other supplier procurement is also heavily involve on arranging financing scheme. This matter especially if the exporting/supplier nation has dificulties providing export financing on their own. Thus brokerage usually engage with arranging financing scheme between Financial Institution so the Supplier can have working capital to build and Buyer can have the financing scheme that fits on their budgetary cash flow.
US has already have and establish intitution for financing scheme on defense export or military surplus scheme. Thus the need for Brokerage to arrange financing is reduce. However does not mean diminish, as we see on the case of AH-64E procurement. Example related to financing on shore projects at buyers infrastructur or other supporting projects or other financing that not directly related to main asset procurement. Thus G to G again still can open to additional commercial financing. Still using commercial financing is not means potential corruption. Corruption can only prevented by proper financial control and not type of procurement agreement or financing.
Frenchie salesman know well on this, but he try to sell the idea to public if buying G to G from US or Western Euro sources, the need for brokerage diminish, thus also corruption. However this is not true, and guys like him just try to smeer procurement from his competitors that relies more on commercial financing scheme.
Anyway there's talk that KRI Sriwijaya will be classified as Amphibious Transport Asset and not Carrier. Thus it will not prefix '1' but '5' as hull number. Thus Garibaldi 551 number can be use, instead change it to 100.
His talk on US G to G has no brokerage or middle man also not entirely true. We see that in the case of AH-64 and F-16, eventough has to admit the role of middle man is not as substantial as other supplier procurement.
The difference from what i see is not due to G to G, but more to financing. Middleman in other supplier procurement is also heavily involve on arranging financing scheme. This matter especially if the exporting/supplier nation has dificulties providing export financing on their own. Thus brokerage usually engage with arranging financing scheme between Financial Institution so the Supplier can have working capital to build and Buyer can have the financing scheme that fits on their budgetary cash flow.
US has already have and establish intitution for financing scheme on defense export or military surplus scheme. Thus the need for Brokerage to arrange financing is reduce. However does not mean diminish, as we see on the case of AH-64E procurement. Example related to financing on shore projects at buyers infrastructur or other supporting projects or other financing that not directly related to main asset procurement. Thus G to G again still can open to additional commercial financing. Still using commercial financing is not means potential corruption. Corruption can only prevented by proper financial control and not type of procurement agreement or financing.
Frenchie salesman know well on this, but he try to sell the idea to public if buying G to G from US or Western Euro sources, the need for brokerage diminish, thus also corruption. However this is not true, and guys like him just try to smeer procurement from his competitors that relies more on commercial financing scheme.
Anyway there's talk that KRI Sriwijaya will be classified as Amphibious Transport Asset and not Carrier. Thus it will not prefix '1' but '5' as hull number. Thus Garibaldi 551 number can be use, instead change it to 100.
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Ananda
The Bunker Group
PT PAL Kaji Ganti Sistem Pendorong Kapal Garibaldi - Nasional
PT PAL Indonesia membuka kemungkinan untuk mengganti sistem pendorong kapal perang induk Giuseppe Garibaldi.
Not unexpected, as PAL CEO always try to shown to media, PAL can do everything. For a ship yard that have zero experience on carrier and also zero experience on installing gas turbine, now claim it can do COGAG propulsion conversion. I only say, thank god the refit is lead by Fincantieri.
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Garibaldi Perlu Dikawal Kapal Destroyer? Begini Jawaban KSAL |Republika Online
Tidak harus destroyer, fregat bisa mengawal, yang penting punya kemampuan antiudara.
news.republika.co.id
TNI-AL chief told media that destroyer procurement is not immediate plan. He also says that having Frigate with decent AAW, AsuW, ASW and EW is enough as escort for carrier. Considering budget now being allocate for interim submarine and additional Frigate, it is clear massage.
Beside fully armed FMP with AESA Radar and 64 VLS, it has similar fire power with most Destroyers. Also full config PPA with potential 32 VLS also enough for the job. Better additional 2 PPA and 2 FMP then 2 Destroyer. Let alone the destroyer is Type 54B.
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ComradeVortex
Member
Piranha indigenous torpedo will have serial production started next year (2027)
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defense-studies.blogspot.com
Indonesia eyes mass production of Piranha torpedo from 2027
Indonesian state-owned shipbuilder PT PAL Indonesia has presented plans to begin mass-producing its indigenous Piranha lightweight torpedo in January 2027.
www.janes.com
Indonesia Menargetkan Produksi Massal Torpedo Piranha Mulai Tahun 2027
18 September 2026 Torpedo Piranha yang akan diproduksi PT PAL (image: PT PAL) Perusahaan galangan kapal milik negara Indonesia, PT PAL Indon...
defense-studies.blogspot.com
Piranha indigenous torpedo will have serial production started next year (2027)
Indonesia eyes mass production of Piranha torpedo from 2027
Indonesian state-owned shipbuilder PT PAL Indonesia has presented plans to begin mass-producing its indigenous Piranha lightweight torpedo in January 2027.
Indonesia Menargetkan Produksi Massal Torpedo Piranha Mulai Tahun 2027
18 September 2026 Torpedo Piranha yang akan diproduksi PT PAL (image: PT PAL) Perusahaan galangan kapal milik negara Indonesia, PT PAL Indon...
Is this a fully indigenous development? Never heard abt this before .....
Sandhi Yudha
Well-Known Member
IPTN has experience with the licence production of the Atlas Elektronik SUT, but PAL not. So it is for sure that if a shipyard suddenly presents a brand new torpedo out of nowhere, it is 100% foreign technology, supported by the fact that PAL already has too many projects to handle, and has a president-director with unrealistic ambitions close to disillusional levels.
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ComradeVortex
Member
My take is that it's an indigenous design but the technology is foreign.
Ananda
The Bunker Group
Remember this ? FMP already in production, KSOT also (even the model changes), Laser Weapon, CMS, Torpedo and Scorpene.
However not sure on this KSSI submarine come to what catagorisation, also main gun 40mm and Destroyer. Now the CEO say he already has blue print for Carrier and Destroyer. Still that's one claim hand, and has to be taken with huge salt on those claim.
PT PAL aircraft carrier design is so unique .... It is the only carrier with island on the starboard side. I think there is no other carrier from any era with same island structure position.
On Garibaldi:
1. What are they going to do w the Aspide launchers?
2. Looks like the 2 PPAs are supposed to be the main escorts? If yes, when will the Navy really upgrade them? The 2 PPA are nothing more than glorified OPV. No AAW, no ASW, no ASuW. Calling them paper tiger (or paper sharks) are unfair to the tiger (or the shark).
Actually, I don't know of any carrier with an island on the port side. AFAIK they're all starboard. Certainly, Cavour has a starboard island, & so do all the Italian-built through-deck amphibious ships.
The first purpose-built aircraft carrier, HMS Hermes, had a starboard island, & apart from a few island-free early carriers, every RN aircraft carrier since has has a starboard island. Not one has had a port island.
I think it's the same around the world.
The first purpose-built aircraft carrier, HMS Hermes, had a starboard island, & apart from a few island-free early carriers, every RN aircraft carrier since has has a starboard island. Not one has had a port island.
I think it's the same around the world.
I am a landlubber so I am allowed to ignore to terms port and starboard and just use left and right.
Past promotional material from PAL flipflops between having the island on the left side and right side. This shows that PAL doesn't actually have anything concrete. Just a simple 3D model for promotional material that people sometimes mirror-flip to get a better layout on the banner/ppt/whatnot.
Past promotional material from PAL flipflops between having the island on the left side and right side. This shows that PAL doesn't actually have anything concrete. Just a simple 3D model for promotional material that people sometimes mirror-flip to get a better layout on the banner/ppt/whatnot.
Sandhi Yudha
Well-Known Member
- I think you mean "port side", regarding to PAL's unique design. And i am agree with Tonnyc, we shouldn't take Kaharuddin Djenod's wild fantasies too seriously.
- Indonesia's two PPA vessels are the Light+ variants, that means they are equipped with 2 × 8-cell DCNS SYLVER A50 VLS for 16 Aster 30 Block 1NT missiles. Besides that the Oto Melara 76 mm/62 Strales Sovraponte can be used against surface and air targets. But it is up to the government to order a decent amount of Aster missiles, or keep the ships empty to use them only for ceremonies.