Indonesia: 'green water navy'

[Sandhi Yudha]

https://x.com/SebLecornu/status/1927644927514579291?s=09

Well it is still Letter of Intent on:

1. Adittional Rafale,
2. Adittional Caesar SPG,
3. Adiitional Scorpene and Light Frigate.

So all additional of existing order, which bring to talk on Light Frigate. There's no existing contract of NG Light Frigate. Some in here talk on FDI, but is FDI on Light Frigate category in Naval Group ? As Light Frigate seems also refer by NG on their larger Gowind design, like Gowind 3100 that become Malaysian LCS.

So it is still intention, and in Indonesia means longer term. It is more politically show case, and potentially will not happen in this term. So unles Prabowo win second term, it is in my suspicion more or less stay as intention. This term Frenchie seems more getting what already under contract like 42 Rafale and hopefully building of 2 Scorpene.

So actually we know now for sure that the two ordered Scorpènes are 100% fixed. Because in the past some people here still talking about the possibility that talks are still ongoing for the South-Korean 2nd Batch of Type 209/1400 or German/Turkish Type 209 as alternatives for the Scorpènes....

 

[Ananda]

During his tenure as Defense Minister, Prabowo already shown the plan for 7 Tactical Submarine and 2 Strategic Submarine. The Scorpene part of that Strategic Submarine, thus the potential 2nd batch of DSME 209 or Turkiye/TKMS 214 or Fincantieri 212NS or Chinese S26A all seems part of that 7 Tactical Sub.

So the aim still 12 Submarine. Existing 3 DSME 209 already calculate as 1st Batch, thus need 9 more. That's seems calculation 7 tactical + 2 strategic coming from. So if they now aim for 2+2 scorpene, then the tactical/littoral ones going to be 8 instead 10. Either way seems Scorpene are part of calculation that diferred from littoral subs.

Despite all the talk on this Tactical using Chinese and Italian Subs, I still suspect DSME 209 2nd batch as possibilities as also potential Midget Sub of Turkiye STM 500. All back to budget. As if they increase the number of Scorpene, then the litoral/tactical ones has to give on lower specs/cost alternative. Unless China do give big discount on S26A as rumours call.

 

[Ananda]

This being circulate on Indonesian enthusiast sites, on progress of OPV 90 instalation in DRU/Noahtu Shipyard. All this talk on Frigates, Submarines, but I do believe the OPV/Corvette like this and the 80M Corvette of Bung Hatta class more likely should become the back bone of TNI-AL.

 

[Ananda]

Bagaimana Progres Rencana RI Beli Kapal Selam Interim Saat Tunggu Scorpene?

Kapal selam interim Indonesia masih dalam pencarian. KSAL TNI Muhammad Ali menjelaskan tentang kebutuhan dan proses pembelian kapal selam Scorpene.

nasional.kompas.com

This two event I put it together as my suspicion it is related. At parliament (the article) Naval chief reiterate the needs for interim submarine while Scorpene Evo being built. While at second one, a day before he meet with NG CEO.

NG before already stated their interest to modify and refurbished DSME 209 1400 Pararel with Scorpene building at Surabaya PAL facility. From what I gather they offer those 209 Lithium Ion battery similar with what they are going to put on the Scorpene Evo. If they got the job, then potentially the need for interim submarines will not only to wait for Scorpene finish, but also the refurbishment of 209 1400.

Question that I see on this type of 'interim' shown they need ready assets to be operational ASAP. Which is why like interim fighters, the potential of Chinese system is matching on the need. China have spares J-10 and S-26 SSK to spares. Wondering if Chinese Lobby already see this as part of their sales strategy. Off course there are other offer, but who has both Fighter and Submarine to spares, outside China?

As for Geopolitics signal, well it signaling China that Indonesia not put them as threats matrix's (officially), even for new build assets Indonesia aim for mostly NATO supply chain. Just simply all fit the 'coincidences'.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

I don't see the point for the wish to get "interim submarines".
Only one Type 209/1400 at a time will be upgraded in Surabaya, while TNI-AL has one Type 209/1300 and three Type 209/1400.

 

[Ananda]

don't see the point for the wish to get "interim submarines".

I suspect the term "interim" being use as loop hole for second hand or no domestic industry involvement. The regulations and political commitments for domestic industry involvement and no second hand assets tied some flexibilities. It is hard to find a vendor that want to provide second hand assets but with some kind of domestic industry involvement at term of tech transfer or off set arrangements.

 

[Ananda]

The signing with Turkiye yesterday not only with KAAN, but also on Atmaca agreement between Roketsan and Republikorp on joint production in Indonesia. So there goes C705 base domestic missile reverse engineering program.

There are lots producers that shown their Frigates mockup, but from what I gather, Prabowo only come to see one Mockup. Turkiye Istif class Frigate seems getting all his attention. Increase the rumours that Istif will become Light Frigate candidate program. Program that supposedly taken by KCR Sigma 10514 (but stop to only two).

 

[Ananda]

Xavier and his team already at IndoDefence, will see how his reports are.





Defenart and Keris X account shown mockup from FMP which seems going to be final iteration design. Thus 64 Midlas VLS with HISAR, SIPER and potentialy VL Atmaca. If Istif with Midlas VLS also being taken, means TNI-AL will maintain to VL cells modules, Midlas and Sylver.

Add:
PAL will only provide space and instalation slots for 64 VLS Cells (8 modules). However it is doubtfull all 64 cells will be installed. I suspect at most half of modules that's going to be procured at most.

 

[Ananda]

Indo Defence 2025: China offers ex-PLAN Type 039 boats for Indonesia's interim submarine requirement

China has offered to supply the Indonesian Navy with ex-People's Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) Yuan (Type 039A)-class submarines.

www.janes.com

So this is clearer each days that the term 'interim' is basically second hand assets. As such China already offer their excess Type 039A SSK for interim submarine. This interim Subs going to be stop gap capacity during Scorpene building and 209-1400 refurbishment.

 

[76mmGuns]

Xavier and his team already at IndoDefence, will see how his reports are.

View attachment 53000



Defenart and Keris X account shown mockup from FMP which seems going to be final iteration design. Thus 64 Midlas VLS with HISAR, SIPER and potentialy VL Atmaca. If Istif with Midlas VLS also being taken, means TNI-AL will maintain to VL cells modules, Midlas and Sylver.

Add:
PAL will only provide space and instalation slots for 64 VLS Cells (8 modules). However it is doubtfull all 64 cells will be installed. I suspect at most half of modules that's going to be procured at most.

What's the name of this warship?

 

[Ananda]

What's the name of this warship

FMP (Fregat Merah Putih) or Red White Frigate. This is Arrowhead 140 or Type 31 derivative that currently building at PAL shipyard in Surabaya.

The mock up is for the latest design iteration with 64 Midlas VLS cells.

 

[76mmGuns]

FMP (Fregat Merah Putih) or Red White Frigate. This is Arrowhead 140 or Type 31 derivative that currently building at PAL shipyard in Surabaya.

The mock up is for the latest design iteration with 64 Midlas VLS cells.

Thanks mate.

2 x 76mm guns fore? The Type 31 really is downspecced compared to Poland and Indonesia. Money is money I guess

 

[Ananda]

FMP being prepared(at least at the latest iteration) for AAW Frigate, just like original Danish Iver class. While type 31 prepare for GP Frigate. I believe it is in the end shown the flexibility of the design.

 

[Ananda]

Indonesia: 'green water navy'

From looking at it externally, it seems to me that the main problem is overlap. As in multiple agencies running similar ships for identical purposes. Mostly security/patrol. And often - e.g. KPLP - even in their own sub-agencies or departments that only handle that task without other duties...

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As my previous post above, there's graphics on which part of FMP equipment belong to Main Contract and which belong to FFBNW contract. Most System, Weapon and Command modules (Sewaco in Indonesian term) are part of FFBNW contract.

The FFBNW contract has not been put in effective yet, as there are consideration of budget and also final design iteration has not been set yet. However yesterday at IndoDefence the FFBNW contract has been signed. This indicate the design that PAL shown in their booth are final one.

This contract means PAL can move to Sewaco installation after they're finishing their work on main contract (which as graphics on my previous post above shown) related to basic ship equipment. The contract for FFBNW signed means PAL as builder should already have price costs and availability items from the suppliers.

 

[Ananda]

Xavier first video on IndoDefence. He interview PAL people on their UAS program. Seems this is the program that differ from previous UAS design. It is smaller and in my oppinion more manageable design from their previous ones. At least they admitted the software and operational system being developed by their partner.

Add:
More close up pictures on FMP 140 (photo credit to Indonesian enthusiats X accounts). I'm more focus on this one, as this is already building and not just MoU stages.



Could this one being build by China but using either MBDA or Roketsan missiles ? Thai's did get that kind of arrangement with their Naresuan class Frigate.

 

[Ananda]

Two TAIS design that seems getting traction in Indonesia. FACM 70 already being build (2 of them), while the talk on MoU with PAL seems explore further production in Indonesia as KCR 70. This can be done in PAL facility or other Indonesian yards.

While the talk for Istif Frigate seems getting momentum. Seems PAL talking on collaboration with 2 Frigate design, Istif with TAIS and FDI with NG.

 

[x100 XKR]

Indonesia: 'green water navy'

From looking at it externally, it seems to me that the main problem is overlap. As in multiple agencies running similar ships for identical purposes. Mostly security/patrol. And often - e.g. KPLP - even in their own sub-agencies or departments that only handle that task without other duties...

www.defencetalk.com

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The FFBNW contract has not been put in effective yet, as there are consideration of budget and also final design iteration has not been. However yesterday at IndoDefence the FFBNW contract has been signed. This indicate the design that PAL shown in their booth are final one.

Do you mind clarifying? If the FFBNW contract has been signed, does that mean these equipments are no longer FFBNW, but actually will be installed at some point?

 

[Ananda]

Take a look back to the graphic from PAL (as in previous post link). There are two contract on this FMP project. Deep Blue equipment are part of Main Contract, and Light Blue equipment are part of FFBNW contract.

Thus so far what already effective is the main contract. Means all deep blue equipment already in contract to be procure. While the light blue ones part of FFBNW contract, means until yesterday signing has not been effective as contract yet.

The signing simply means the light blue ones already effective and PAL as builder can begin process on acquiring them. However as contract they're still call FFBNW such the contract arrangement like that. FFBNW simply mean that the procurement arrangement set to be latter part after main ones commencing.

 

[Ananda]

Photos from Defenart X account.

Looking at the mock up and graphic of the Palindo version of KCR 60, it is shown in my opinion similarities on design with TAIS FACM 70 (or will be call here KCR 70). I suspect TAIS actually already become Partner with Palindo.



Defenart also shown Roketsan booth showing Midlas VLS with Siper Long Range and Hisar-O Medium Range SAM. Roketsan claim this is the configuration that will equip FMP Midlas VLS.

 

[Ananda]

Forum Energy Technologies to Supply LR600 Submarine Rescue System for Indonesian Navy - Naval News

At the Indo Defence 2025, FET announced that it has secured a contract to supply LR600 Submarine Rescue Vehicle for the Indonesian Navy.

www.navalnews.com

Effective contract for SRV, launch and recovery system plus decompression chamber. Whole system will be pair with BHO vessel that now being finish by Abekin-Rasmussen in Germany.

I have to check again, but seems as this moment, there are two SRV project,one with SMP using SRV-F Mk3 and now with FET using LR600. Perhaps this explain why there are two mother ship program. One using mother ship build by Citra Shipyard, and other using BHO.