Huawei

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
We know from wikileaks and other whistleblowers that the US spies on everyone all over the world regardless of supposed restrictions placed on them by congress, as an example they were tapping Merkel's phones, so those restrictions aren't very strong or effective. My personal opinion is the US is a far bigger threat to the world's stability than everyone else combined, it's the American first damn everyone else attitude and there abuse of the extraterritorial sanctions that is a massively destabilising.

Do you honestly believe the US also isn't involved in cyber warfare, whatever the Chinese and Russia are doing the US are doing, if you think otherwise you're incredibly naive.
Well Wikileaks aren't exactly knights in shining armour are they, especially Assange. The main source for the US documents that Wikileaks obtained was a traitor, because they were serving in uniform at the time and delivered classified information to a foreign source. If they believed that the material showed illegal actions, they had other options, outside of their command chain, open to them within the US govt, that they could've and should've taken.

The Poms probably have been furiously tapping all of the EU govts phones and networks for the last 3 years (BREXIT) and the French and Germans since the telegraph and phone were invented. :D All govts have secret ops going that would be highly embarrassing if details ever saw the light of day.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
An article that suggests that FEYES should lead on 5G: Five Eyes Must Lead on 5G - War on the Rocks written by a US Republican Congressman and a British Conservative MP.

The next article suggests that FEYES should be used as model for sensitive tech transfers: Build A ‘Five Eyes’ For Military Tech Sharing: Greenwalt

My thoughts are that FEYES as it is currently structured could do both and regarding sensitive tech transfer, non FEYES nations that meet stringent criteria, could be added in a sanitised box. At present I can only think of three other nations and that would be Japan, Germany and possibly South Korea. Maybe it's time to turn FEYES into SEYES (Seven EYES) by adding Germany and Japan to the fold.
 

Todjaeger

Potstirrer
My thoughts are that FEYES as it is currently structured could do both and regarding sensitive tech transfer, non FEYES nations that meet stringent criteria, could be added in a sanitised box. At present I can only think of three other nations and that would be Japan, Germany and possibly South Korea. Maybe it's time to turn FEYES into SEYES (Seven EYES) by adding Germany and Japan to the fold.
I would argue, quite strongly, against such an expansion. There is a reason why these five particular nations are in this particular intel/tech sharing arrangement and others are not. It is also why some of the FMS and ITARS restrictions on US military technology and hardware are what they are.

As for Wikileaks... IMO that 'group' such as it is, was co-oped years ago or was initially founded with an agenda which included disinformation. I can recall in particular a specific instance where an edited video was released by Wikileaks of a US AH-64 Apache engaging a vehicle in Iraq . The edits were made to make it look like the US helicopter engaged and destroyed an Iraqi civilian vehicle (with children inside) without cause, when longer versions of the video clearly showed why the vehicle was engaged. IIRC it was because the vehicle had stopped to pick up several armed individuals who were engaging ground forces.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
I would argue, quite strongly, against such an expansion. There is a reason why these five particular nations are in this particular intel/tech sharing arrangement and others are not. It is also why some of the FMS and ITARS restrictions on US military technology and hardware are what they are.

As for Wikileaks... IMO that 'group' such as it is, was co-oped years ago or was initially founded with an agenda which included disinformation. I can recall in particular a specific instance where an edited video was released by Wikileaks of a US AH-64 Apache engaging a vehicle in Iraq . The edits were made to make it look like the US helicopter engaged and destroyed an Iraqi civilian vehicle (with children inside) without cause, when longer versions of the video clearly showed why the vehicle was engaged. IIRC it was because the vehicle had stopped to pick up several armed individuals who were engaging ground forces.
When FEYES was formed, Germany and Japan were recently defeated enemies. Now they would be the closest reliable FEYES allies so my argument would be that they would bring quite a lot to the table, creating a stronger alliance.

Wikileaks as far as I am concerned are an extension of Russian intelligence & disinformation. The Russians have always been amongst the best in the spook business and it wouldn't surprise me if their fingerprints weren't all over the Wikileaks operation. If not them probably Mossad; they're as cunning as a truckload of weasels, as slippery as a large bucket of eels, and as mischievous as a cartload of monkeys.
+ Japan, Denmark, the Netherlands and Norway.
Already included Japan. Denmark, the Netherlands and Norway, probably if it was decided to expand FEYES beyond five or seven. They certainly would be an asset to the alliance. South Korea as a maybe, but I would have some security concerns about penetration by NK and PRC assets, because SK is the prime target of NK intel, and would be in the top three priorities for the PRC intel services.
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
Fair point about S Korea's entry. I guess the current strained relationship with Japan would be an additional hassle if SK were also included in an expanded EYES group.
 

Todjaeger

Potstirrer
When FEYES was formed, Germany and Japan were recently defeated enemies. Now they would be the closest reliable FEYES allies so my argument would be that they would bring quite a lot to the table, creating a stronger alliance.
This is getting somewhat divorced from the thread topic, which is Huawei, but... German (and presumably prior to reunification East AND West German) intel agencies have been known to engage in both military/governmental as well as industrial espionage of or against allied nations, including fellow NATO members. Not to quite the same degree as French agencies, but enough so that the level of trust falls well short of that which exists between the ABCA alliance members and NZ.
 

MrConservative

Super Moderator
Staff member
Already included Japan. Denmark, the Netherlands and Norway, probably if it was decided to expand FEYES beyond five or seven. They certainly would be an asset to the alliance.
I was not including Germany but essentially adding the Dutch, to the Japanese, Danes and the Norwegians if we were picking four. I share Todj's wariness to be honest and if it was hypothetically going to expand they would be my four cabs off the rank.
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
Some interesting news about Huawei in the UK. PM May has sacked her defence minister claiming he leaked info about a government decision to allow some Huawei equipment into the UK 5G network. A better decision would have been to resign as defence minister. Observers would have no problem figuring out the reason for his resignation. A better way to make a point about a poor decision IMHO.

Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson sacked
 

KiwiRob

Active Member
Well Wikileaks aren't exactly knights in shining armour are they, especially Assange. The main source for the US documents that Wikileaks obtained was a traitor, because they were serving in uniform at the time and delivered classified information to a foreign source. If they believed that the material showed illegal actions, they had other options, outside of their command chain, open to them within the US govt, that they could've and should've taken.

The Poms probably have been furiously tapping all of the EU govts phones and networks for the last 3 years (BREXIT) and the French and Germans since the telegraph and phone were invented. :D All govts have secret ops going that would be highly embarrassing if details ever saw the light of day.
exactly if everyone is snooping why shouldn't Huawei be used, there technology is currently the best 5G available, it's faster and cheaper, so why buy slower more expensive western tech??
 

Todjaeger

Potstirrer
exactly if everyone is snooping why shouldn't Huawei be used, there technology is currently the best 5G available, it's faster and cheaper, so why buy slower more expensive western tech??
Perhaps because a great deal more than 'just snooping' can be done.
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
Here’s an interesting take on how DoD’s R&E sees the 5G roll-out. His view is that everything will be partially compromised and DoD will require technology to operate securely over compromised networks, regardless of where the hardware/software comes from. Also interesting is the higher priority that was given to hypersonics and new space sensor tech over 5G. Apparently enough progress has been made on those items to allow the 5G effort to now be the priority.

Edit: Forgot to mention the rail gun and lasers which still continue to be important priorities.

Mike Griffin Says 5G Top New Priority for R&E Shop
 
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Mike Wallace

New Member
This article discusses the other threat that a Chinese dominated 5G would entail besides security, the loss of high tech leadership to China forcing big corporations like Apple, Google, Microsoft and many others being at the mercy of the CCP-Huawei-ZTE grid.

https://www.realcleardefense.com/articles/2019/12/04/how_chinas_5g_ascent_could_herald_the_end_of_us_big_tech_114891.html
The rising labor costs in capitalist market will continue to fuel this tussle over technology. There will be a time when the Chinese manufacturing too will become expensive and a new underdog will start producing cheaper technology. The countries that are adopting Chinese 5G are not doing so out of their sheer love for China. But, in fact, because of the price advantage.
 
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