Future of the French/Russian Mistral LHDs

[swerve]

True, if Putin wanted to take that lot, he could. But he's shown no desire to do so. I reckon either those who say he wants a frozen conflict, or those who think he prefers an autonomous spoiler state within Ukraine, are right. Whichever, he'd get the power to disrupt, without having to take direct responsibility, which I think would suit him just fine.

He doesn't want to pay to prop up all the lands claimed by "Novorossiya", & nor do his oligarch friends see any use for Ukrainian tank factories or the like. He'll be happy to see the rebel lands fester, & use them as a stick to beat Ukraine with when it won't come to heel. For that, what the rebels have now (with a little tidying up, e.g. getting the Ukrainians away from Donetsk airport) is plenty. He can use the rebel demand for all of the two oblasts as a threat, to get lesser concessions.

But we're veering OT.

 

[Feanor]

True, if Putin wanted to take that lot, he could. But he's shown no desire to do so. I reckon either those who say he wants a frozen conflict, or those who think he prefers an autonomous spoiler state within Ukraine, are right. Whichever, he'd get the power to disrupt, without having to take direct responsibility, which I think would suit him just fine.

He doesn't want to pay to prop up all the lands claimed by "Novorossiya", & nor do his oligarch friends see any use for Ukrainian tank factories or the like. He'll be happy to see the rebel lands, & use them as a stick to beat Ukraine with when it won't come to heel. For that, what the rebels have now (with a little tidying up, e.g. getting the Ukrainians away from Donetsk airport) is plenty. He can use the rebel demand for all of the two oblasts as a threat, to get lesser concessions.

But we're veering OT.

It's an interesting conversation, so I think I'll respond in the Ukrainian Crisis thread, if you're willing to continue the discussion.

 

[Lostfleet]

if one of these ships were to be operated by a different country other than Russia, how hard would it be to convert to their own standards starting from the signage.

Lets say the ship is going to French Navy for easy comparison, is the Russian Mistrals exactly same with the French Mistrals as all of the layout, equipment and etc?

 

[KiwiRob]

I'm not sure how correct this is, I've been told the hanger deck on the Russian ships is higher due to the counter rotating blades of the Russian helicopters it will operate. The navigation equipment is also different, I was told it's Transas on the Russian ships and Kongesburg?? on the French. A lot of Russian equipment was supplied so it would be a big job.

 

[Ranger25]

I'm not sure how correct this is, I've been told the hanger deck on the Russian ships is higher due to the counter rotating blades of the Russian helicopters it will operate. The navigation equipment is also different, I was told it's Transas on the Russian ships and Kongesburg?? on the French. A lot of Russian equipment was supplied so it would be a big job.

Instill like the idea of a US/NATO effort to finance and offer them to a Western friendly Navy but ultimately think the French will complete delivery

 

[swerve]

,,,,Kongesburg??,,,.

Kongsberg

 

[pkcasimir]

Instill like the idea of a US/NATO effort to finance and offer them to a Western friendly Navy but ultimately think the French will complete delivery

Last time I checked the US was still a part of NATO.

 

[Ranger25]

Last time I checked the US was still a part of NATO.

Understood, I was there many years. My point was that it could be a US lead NATO initiative.

What about Italy. Recently they announced the intend to field two new Amphibs.

"Along with the signing of the PPA contract this year, the Navy may also sign a contract for a logistics vessel and a new amphibious vessel, which would replace two of the three amphibious ships currently in service."

 

[John Fedup]

Understood, I was there many years. My point was that it could be a US lead NATO initiative.

What about Italy. Recently they announced the intend to field two new Amphibs.

"Along with the signing of the PPA contract this year, the Navy may also sign a contract for a logistics vessel and a new amphibious vessel, which would replace two of the three amphibious ships currently in service."

Italy and France have collaborated before but the only Mistral Italy might get is one that is built in Italy.

 

[swerve]

What about Italy. Recently they announced the intend to field two new Amphibs.

"Along with the signing of the PPA contract this year, the Navy may also sign a contract for a logistics vessel and a new amphibious vessel, which would replace two of the three amphibious ships currently in service."

Italy designs & builds amphibious ships* for its own navy & export. It doesn't import them. Imports don't provide Italian voters with jobs.

*And every other class of surface naval ship up to light aircraft carriers.

 

[kato]

I can see a single possible customer, and they're pretty much be the default customer. They need to start replacing their 1950s LSD and 1960s LST too, possibly with the more recently-acquired LSLs supporting a future large fleet asset like this operationally... the only problem is that their navy might think it would hurt their chances at a new CVL next decade.

 

[John Fedup]

Defence aerospace reports the first Mistral will be turned over to Russia in mid November in the port city of Saint-Nazaire.

 

[swerve]

I can see a single possible customer, and they're pretty much be the default customer. They need to start replacing their 1950s LSD and 1960s LST too, possibly with the more recently-acquired LSLs supporting a future large fleet asset like this operationally... the only problem is that their navy might think it would hurt their chances at a new CVL next decade.

Somewhere in South America, just had an election, & already bought some OTS ships built for another customer?

 

[kato]

Yep, them. Could form a nice political bridge too. Sort-of-Russian-affiliated-but-not...

 

[KiwiRob]

I'm in St Petersburg this week, one of my meetings today was with Navy procurement, the gentleman I met was on board for the sea trials and was part of the commissioning party, the Russian Navy expect to take possession soon, otherwise the ship isn't going anywhere, to strip the vessel of all it's Russian systems would be prohibitively expensive, along with refunding Russia and paying penalty's for non delivery the French wouldn't make any money on selling them. The second vessel is coming along nicely, work hasn't been stopped, Baltic Shipyards have delivered the hulls sections they constructed. These ships will end up in Russia, it also looks like the trigger will be pulled to start local construction of the next two vessels within the next 12-18 months.

 

[Milne Bay]

I'm in St Petersburg this week, one of my meetings today was with Navy procurement, the gentleman I met was on board for the sea trials and was part of the commissioning party, the Russian Navy expect to take possession soon, otherwise the ship isn't going anywhere, to strip the vessel of all it's Russian systems would be prohibitively expensive, along with refunding Russia and paying penalty's for non delivery the French wouldn't make any money on selling them. The second vessel is coming along nicely, work hasn't been stopped, Baltic Shipyards have delivered the hulls sections they constructed. These ships will end up in Russia, it also looks like the trigger will be pulled to start local construction of the next two vessels within the next 12-18 months.

This was the only way that I could see this playing out.
I must admit that this time-frame surprises me, as I thought that the ships would not get to Russia for quite a while yet as a part of the continuing sanctions saga.
MB

 

[Feanor]

I'm in St Petersburg this week, one of my meetings today was with Navy procurement, the gentleman I met was on board for the sea trials and was part of the commissioning party, the Russian Navy expect to take possession soon, otherwise the ship isn't going anywhere, to strip the vessel of all it's Russian systems would be prohibitively expensive, along with refunding Russia and paying penalty's for non delivery the French wouldn't make any money on selling them. The second vessel is coming along nicely, work hasn't been stopped, Baltic Shipyards have delivered the hulls sections they constructed. These ships will end up in Russia, it also looks like the trigger will be pulled to start local construction of the next two vessels within the next 12-18 months.

Did you hear anything interesting on the Saturn offerings for the project 11356 engines?

 

[Blackshoe]

France is disputing that they will handover MISTRAL.

The conditions have not today been met for delivering the Mistral,” Finance Minister Michel Sapin told RTL radio. Those conditions, he said, are a return to normalcy in Ukraine and “that Russia play a positive role there.”

“From a certain point of view,” Mr. Sapin said, “things are going better, but there are still concerns. So today, the conditions aren’t met.”

I think it's interesting that it's the finance minister announcing this.

 

[StingrayOZ]

France Fired The Guy In Charge Of Selling Warships To Russia | Business Insider

Looks like France wants to go with the ships aren't ready yet.

Stall everyone a bit longer.

 

[John Fedup]

The Ottawa Citizen is referencing an International Business Times story about a possible Mistral sale to Canada, probably as a result of Hollande's visit to Canada this week. As reported, such a sale is unlikely for many reasons. If the RCN was to find money for an amphibious ship, hopefully it would be a Juan Carlos/Canberra class ship.