StevoJH
The Bunker Group
So that the Russians can develop a counter measure, rendering it obsolete or obsolescent?
Keeping in mind that any counter measure will likely be shared or sold to China, North Korea and Iran at some point.
Keeping in mind that any counter measure will likely be shared or sold to China, North Korea and Iran at some point.
It would be interesting to know what % of the current Ukrainian and Russian Army is devoted to drone warfare.
Offensively - operators and their logistic support plus training
Defensively- operators and the equipment needed plus logistic support and training.
Only a couple of decades ago it would have been a tiny % of human capital and coin.
Today a very different situation.
This question I’d also ask of the Australian Army.
What % is devoted to drone / unmanned warfare.
Don’t expect a concise answer in a public forum but resent global hostilities do highlight the rapid growth of the unmanned space.
Cheers S
How many rounds did we order again?
How long before we will manufacture our own ammunition for these, and how many rounds will that factory be able to make a month?
GMLRS
Purchased 300 rounds + 54(GMLRS-AW)
Beginning small batch manufacturing/assembly 2025.
Up to 4,000 a year from 2029.
Standard crawl, walk, run -starting with gmlrs.
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4000 a year is not running. Maybe a casual jog.
That's 95 rounds per unit per month at 4000 a year, which will take several years to achieve.
Until then...crawl, crawl crawl, walk, stumble walk...
The 155mm factory will be able to produce 15000 per year, and then be capable of ramping it up if needed.
HIMARs is a great capability, but we will still need the 155s, and I wonder if the 30 Huntsman that we're cancelled will be revived?
I would really hope to see another lot of Huntsman, even another 12 units would be meaningful.
The ARES really needs a total re org, I have not seen any interest in the Reserve at all, I am hoping that some plans are there in the background.
That's 95 rounds per unit per month at 4000 a year, which will take several years to achieve.
Until then...crawl, crawl crawl, walk, stumble walk...
The 155mm factory will be able to produce 15000 per year, and then be capable of ramping it up if needed.
HIMARs is a great capability, but we will still need the 155s, and I wonder if the 30 Huntsman that we're cancelled will be revived?
I would really hope to see another lot of Huntsman, even another 12 units would be meaningful.
The ARES really needs a total re org, I have not seen any interest in the Reserve at all, I am hoping that some plans are there in the background.
15,000 by 2028, up to 100,000 per year in the future. That’s up to 200,000 per year between Benalla and Maryborough.
The 2nd batch of AS9(5 crew) is unlikely, they have the A2(3 crew + auto loader) available now and are currently developing the unmanned (A3) variant for entry in the 2030s.
Production
2025-2027 > 30 AS9 + 15 AS10
2027-2029 > 129 AS21
2030 > ?
I think we will see more Redbacks followed by K9A3s, just my prediction.
GMLRS for now but maybe Prsm down the track.
Is it practical to fit the "Iron Fist" self defence to the AS9 Howitzers I understand they are being attached to the Boxers and would provide a similar anti drone protection ?
www.australiandefence.com.au
The Land 400 Phase 3 RMA path - Australian Defence Magazine
Given its potential to determine which contractor will benefit from Army’s costliest-ever acquisition program, the outcome of the detailed testing and evaluation now underway on the two contenders for...
www.australiandefence.com.au
MARKMILES77
Well-Known Member
First Precision Strike Missiles for the Australian Army will arrive before the end of the year.
Not sure how many but they will be in Australia in 2025.
Typhon unit coming to Talisman Sabre to fire SM6. Wonder if it’s a sales pitch.
www.defensenews.com
US Army plans Australia test of missile launcher that has irked China
Typhon, a mobile, land-based, ship-sinking missile capability, will be fired during the Talisman Sabre exercise with Australia in the summer.
www.defensenews.com
Maybe we should place a 10% operations Tariff on the US Army for using our facilities.Typhon unit coming to Talisman Sabre to fire SM6. Wonder if it’s a sales pitch.
US Army plans Australia test of missile launcher that has irked China
Typhon, a mobile, land-based, ship-sinking missile capability, will be fired during the Talisman Sabre exercise with Australia in the summer.
Cheers S
I do like the Typhon, however I get confused how it would fit with our requirements. It's not exactly "all terrain", so limited places that it could be sent, and it uses two of the lowest produced and most expensive missile types.Typhon unit coming to Talisman Sabre to fire SM6. Wonder if it’s a sales pitch.
US Army plans Australia test of missile launcher that has irked China
Typhon, a mobile, land-based, ship-sinking missile capability, will be fired during the Talisman Sabre exercise with Australia in the summer.
While we are getting the block V Tomahawk with the maritime strike capability, it's a flying bus and I would think vulnerable to most ship air defence systems. So it's an expensive and unreliable anti ship capability, albeit with long range. I would have thought our limited cash is better spent on the NSM/PrSM systems for this purpose.
SM6 on the other hand is a good long range anti missile system, and could provide the much needed outer layer for a NASAMS battery. I would have thought however that cheaper systems such as Davids Sling/Skyceptor would be more integratable with NASAMS and cheaper.
MARKMILES77
Well-Known Member
First Abrams based Engineering vehicles have arrived at the School of Armour.
MARKMILES77
Well-Known Member
Definitely a sales pitch. LM confirm they are providing information to Australia about containerised launchers. Likely both Mk 70 for Navy use and Typhoon for Army. Would give Army and any ship in the Navy, which has a deck which can support the container, a capability to fire SM6, Tomahawk, Patriot and probably Quad packed ESSMs. Theoretically, a single Mk 70 on the deck of an Arafura would give it the capability to carry 16 ESSMs.Typhon unit coming to Talisman Sabre to fire SM6. Wonder if it’s a sales pitch.
US Army plans Australia test of missile launcher that has irked China
Typhon, a mobile, land-based, ship-sinking missile capability, will be fired during the Talisman Sabre exercise with Australia in the summer.
Lockheed Pitches Containerized Launchers To Help Close Australia's Air And Missile Defense Gaps
Lockheed Martin is offering containerized launchers to Australia as it pushes to acquire sorely needed longer-range air and missile defenses.
www.twz.com
Good to see we are looking at Typhon.
That's they way to go, instead of bespoke capabilities we need to be getting as many systems agnostic effectors as we can.
BAEs adaptable deck launching system is a similar capability that may be a superior option for the RAN in regard to weight, complexity and durability.
The land based Typhon could potentially be operated from the decks of the Canberra's and Choules, maybe even the new LMV-H.
That's they way to go, instead of bespoke capabilities we need to be getting as many systems agnostic effectors as we can.
BAEs adaptable deck launching system is a similar capability that may be a superior option for the RAN in regard to weight, complexity and durability.
The land based Typhon could potentially be operated from the decks of the Canberra's and Choules, maybe even the new LMV-H.
Do you think that a even a hunter or Hobart could use typhon if a bigger load out was required Volk?
Can't see where a Hobart would fit them, but the hunter maybe. To be honest I don't know enough about the footprint required by the system.
This article from The Warzone provides some depth on containerised missiles
www.twz.com
Lockheed Pitches Containerized Launchers To Help Close Australia's Air And Missile Defense Gaps
Lockheed Martin is offering containerized launchers to Australia as it pushes to acquire sorely needed longer-range air and missile defenses.
www.twz.com
I can't see the Typhon system, or its Navalised Mk70 equivalent being fitted to the Hobarts, Hunters, or even the LHDs. The footprint is massive and you give up helo/AUV capability (fully for the Hobarts and Hunters, at least partially for the LHDs). Given we rely heavily on helo ops for submarine defence, I can't see that trade off working.This article from The Warzone provides some depth on containerised missiles
Lockheed Pitches Containerized Launchers To Help Close Australia's Air And Missile Defense Gaps
Lockheed Martin is offering containerized launchers to Australia as it pushes to acquire sorely needed longer-range air and missile defenses.
Perhaps for the eventual LOCSVs, but then I think adaptable deck launchers are simpler.
The Typhon resembles an elephant herd. To have anything like the number of missiles necessary for stand alone defence, you are talking in the order of 8-12 launchers (gives 32-48 missiles). Plus radars, generators, control rooms, spare missiles, cranes, fuel tankers, and hotel services for in the order of 100 crew, plus endless small vehicles. Moving this thing is a 30-40 truck event.
Given that Typhon is either unable or hugely inefficient at short-medium defence, then it also needs to come with a NASAMs battery. So there is another dozen vehicles.
It needs an LHD to move it around its so big, and has the covertness of rock band out of Mad Max (there is no covering this thing in a few fig leaves).
So, it perhaps has a use as a major base defence system. Say around FBW or Darwin, where with an SM6 loadout it can provide balistic missile protection. It becomes a semi stationary system. If you are going to do that, then an Aegis ashore setup is probably an equivalent money alternative.
The only thing going for Typhon in my view is that it can use the SM6, which is a missile we have chosen to hold (hopefully) significant inventory for, and could be used in the future for SM3.
FormerDirtDart
Well-Known Member
Is Typhoon or Mk70 really a logical system for ESSM?Definitely a sales pitch. LM confirm they are providing information to Australia about containerised launchers. Likely both Mk 70 for Navy use and Typhoon for Army. Would give Army and any ship in the Navy, which has a deck which can support the container, a capability to fire SM6, Tomahawk, Patriot and probably Quad packed ESSMs. Theoretically, a single Mk 70 on the deck of an Arafura would give it the capability to carry 16 ESSMs.
Lockheed Pitches Containerized Launchers To Help Close Australia's Air And Missile Defense Gaps
Lockheed Martin is offering containerized launchers to Australia as it pushes to acquire sorely needed longer-range air and missile defenses.
Unlike typical VLS or an adaptable deck launcher they'll need to be erected before engagement. I don't know how long that takes, but I'm betting they don't exactly "pop-up"